EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

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Captain_Cool
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EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by Captain_Cool » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:15 pm

Hi,

I am new to the forum and was wondering what peoples general opinion is of the DR60 and the EVPs it reputedly captures?

I listen to a pod cast that recently used one of these DR60s to record an EVP which really sounds like some kind of interference. AL podcast If you skip to the last 3 minuets you will hear the EVP.

What is everyones thoughts and does anyone have any examples of other DR60 interference like this. I gather from the research i have done it is that common and is known as the angry man. Even most paranormal investigators discount it as technology glich (which is why this device was recalled by panasonic) or interference.

cheers in advance

CC

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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:08 pm

.
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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by landrew » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:15 pm

Captain_Cool wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:15 pm
Hi,

I am new to the forum and was wondering what peoples general opinion is of the DR60 and the EVPs it reputedly captures?

I listen to a pod cast that recently used one of these DR60s to record an EVP which really sounds like some kind of interference. AL podcast If you skip to the last 3 minuets you will hear the EVP.

What is everyones thoughts and does anyone have any examples of other DR60 interference like this. I gather from the research i have done it is that common and is known as the angry man. Even most paranormal investigators discount it as technology glich (which is why this device was recalled by panasonic) or interference.

cheers in advance

CC
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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by Io » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:33 pm

What you need is something that captures a lot of background ghost radiation. You need to record and then play back over and over again very loud, close to your ears, for years if need be. Eventually you won't be able to hear anything but the ghosts. Then you know you've got it.
Some people suggest that cutting off your fingers gives better results.

Try one of these plus an ordinary kitchen knife:
Spoiler:
Image

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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by Pyrrho » Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:29 pm

Man this is a tough crowd.
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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by Austin Harper » Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:21 pm

Boooooooooooooooo
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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by landrew » Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:04 pm

Captain_Cool wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:15 pm
Hi,

I am new to the forum and was wondering what peoples general opinion is of the DR60 and the EVPs it reputedly captures?

I listen to a pod cast that recently used one of these DR60s to record an EVP which really sounds like some kind of interference. AL podcast If you skip to the last 3 minuets you will hear the EVP.

What is everyones thoughts and does anyone have any examples of other DR60 interference like this. I gather from the research i have done it is that common and is known as the angry man. Even most paranormal investigators discount it as technology glich (which is why this device was recalled by panasonic) or interference.

cheers in advance

CC
I'm not ready to ridicule the story, but I am about 75% confident that it may be due to some mundane sort electromagnetic effects peculiar to the device. About 25% sure that there may be something here for science to investigate, so that we may broaden the dark perimeter of the boundary between what we know and what we may learn.
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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:40 pm

Austin Harper wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:21 pm
Boooooooooooooooo
Is that what you heard? :nose:
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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by Poodle » Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:39 pm

Have you thought about trying something a little less antique, Captain Cool? Something with a much better frequency response?

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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:16 am

Captain_Cool wrote: Hi, I am new to the forum and was wondering what peoples general opinion is of the DR60 and the EVPs it reputedly captures?
Digital recorders can capture and record partial sound wave slopes and depending on the model the recorder's DAC ( Digital to Audio converter) will artificially add back the missing section of the wave form upon playback.

The con artists trick is to pretend to record an ambient sound but also record a playback of a "ghost" with the lower half of the wave forms removed. You cannot hear the ghost recording at the time. When you play back the combined recording the DAC adds back the "ghost's" missing wave form and you can hear the "ghost".

This trick is actually a common nuisance for musicians who use digital simulation software of old analogue synthesizers.

I use a Tascam GT-R1, designed for musicians, as it eliminates this problem, whereas simpler recording devices save memory by allowing for this sort of flawed compression algorithms. :D

(PS I didn't debunk this story. A German skeptic posted a long explanation of the trick, about five years ago, as he was debunking recordings of EVPs. Sadly, I can't remember his name. He was a smart fellow)

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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:25 am

landrew wrote:but I am about 75% confident that it may be due to some mundane sort electromagnetic effects peculiar to the device.
...and you would be right. unique "DAC Compression algorithms"

A friend of mine started a company called Lake DSP which used complex algorithms to allow stereo speakers to produce quadraphonic sound. The trick used "phasing" where the two waveforms are put slightly in and out of phase. The field is called "psychoacoustics" :D


Psychoacoustics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoacoustics

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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by Captain_Cool » Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:44 am

Thanks for all the replies thus far.

The DR60 uses an Electret mic. In anyones experience are they affected by breezes and with not being shielded affected by radio interference?
Last edited by Captain_Cool on Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:53 am

Captain_Cool wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:44 am
Thanks for all the replies thus far.
There is an odd relationship between stage magicians and skeptics. A good skeptic should be able to see through magic tricks. Johnny Carson who was a famous skeptical debunker of "woo" and was also a magician. So was Harry Houdini, who worked for Scientific American, and of course, the Amazing Randi ( Randall Zwinge) . :D

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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by Gord » Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:35 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:16 am
Captain_Cool wrote: Hi, I am new to the forum and was wondering what peoples general opinion is of the DR60 and the EVPs it reputedly captures?
Digital recorders can capture and record partial sound wave slopes and depending on the model the recorder's DAC ( Digital to Audio converter) will artificially add back the missing section of the wave form upon playback.

The con artists trick is to pretend to record an ambient sound but also record a playback of a "ghost" with the lower half of the wave forms removed. You cannot hear the ghost recording at the time. When you play back the combined recording the DAC adds back the "ghost's" missing wave form and you can hear the "ghost".

This trick is actually a common nuisance for musicians who use digital simulation software of old analogue synthesizers.

I use a Tascam GT-R1, designed for musicians, as it eliminates this problem, whereas simpler recording devices save memory by allowing for this sort of flawed compression algorithms. :D

(PS I didn't debunk this story. A German skeptic posted a long explanation of the trick, about five years ago, as he was debunking recordings of EVPs. Sadly, I can't remember his name. He was a smart fellow)
"I don't understand what you've justs said, which means you can't possibly know that and therefore 'it's ghosts!' is equally likely."

Also, here's a video of Michael Shermer talking about aural pareidolia:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_V9I7JEawA
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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by landrew » Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:18 pm

It's worth thinking about...
We are bathed in increasing amounts of electromagnetic radiation, a portion of which is modulated with human voices.
It may not be outside the realm of possibility that some of those voices may have found their way onto EVP recordings.
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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:34 am

landrew wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:18 pm
It's worth thinking about...We are bathed in increasing amounts of electromagnetic radiation, a portion of which is modulated with human voices.

It may not be outside the realm of possibility that some of those voices may have found their way onto EVP recordings.
No. How does human voices using sound waves end up as electromagnetic radiation? :lol:

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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by scrmbldggs » Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:37 am

It's the fillings? :geek:
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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:41 am

Captain_Cool wrote: The DR60 uses an Electret mic. In anyones experience are they affected by breezes and with not being shielded affected by radio interference?
It's not the microphone. It is the compression software. Digital recorders use different compression software. Dolby is an example of compression software. Cheap hand held recorders use cheaper software that in some cases adds back waveforms when the compressed recording is played back using DACs. ( Digital to Analogue Converters)

Do you own a DR60? What sampling rate are you concerned with?

DR60 manual
http://www.gegridsolutions.com/products ... M_EN_1.pdf

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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by scrmbldggs » Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:52 am

Braces? :?
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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:57 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:52 am
Braces? :?
Was that a pun on "braces" for "DACs" (trousers)? :D

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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by Gord » Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:33 pm

No, it's a follow-up to her previous question, "It's the fillings?" (Although from a grammatical standpoint, the only way you can detect a question in either statement is through a generous reading of the question marks placed at the ends of them. :P )
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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by scrmbldggs » Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:41 pm

In generous Gord we trust. :mrgreen:
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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by landrew » Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:06 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:34 am
landrew wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:18 pm
It's worth thinking about...We are bathed in increasing amounts of electromagnetic radiation, a portion of which is modulated with human voices.

It may not be outside the realm of possibility that some of those voices may have found their way onto EVP recordings.
No. How does human voices using sound waves end up as electromagnetic radiation? :lol:
Human voice is modulated on radio carrier waves. Radio stations, walkie-talkies etc.
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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by Austin Harper » Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:20 pm

Could you clarify: are referring to standard radio/TV transmissions with people's voices that might be picked up somehow by the recording mechanism?
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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by landrew » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:22 pm

Austin Harper wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:20 pm
Could you clarify: are referring to standard radio/TV transmissions with people's voices that might be picked up somehow by the recording mechanism?
Probably not, owing to the fact that I'm not an electrical engineer. I'm just proposing it as a possible explanation for the EVP.
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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:51 am

I think LAndrews is thinking of the Partridge Family episode story where Susan Dey picked up radio transmissions with the fillings in her teeth.

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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by Io » Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:14 am

Oh, I just had a sudden warm flush at the surprise memory of Susan Dey. Mmmm. The only reason I ever watched LA Law.

I remember many years ago I used to pick up BBC Radio One on my hi-fi speakers very faintly (even when the whole system was powered off).

These two facts are not related.

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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:53 am

Io wrote:Oh, I just had a sudden warm flush at the surprise memory of Susan Dey. Mmmm. The only reason I ever watched LA Law.
I must admit I wondered why Susan Dey didn't seem to age at all between the Partridge Family and LA Law. I assumed she was replaced by a robot.

Anyhow I found the episode. It wasn't teeth fillings. It was braces.


The Partridge Family (1970–1974) / "Old Scrapmouth"
Laurie gets the bad news that she needs braces just as she thinks Jerry, the boy across the street, might finally get up the nerve to ask her to go steady. However, if that wasn't bad enough, Reuben informs the Partridges that they have been booked to appear on a high profile talk show. Things then go from bad to worse when Laurie's braces somehow pick up radio signals during rehearsals and causes her to play a different tune than what the band is. Who knew braces could be so complicated?

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0670182/pl ... _=tt_ov_pl

(The boy across the street, Jerry, asking Susan Day to go steady is Mark Hamill ( Luke Sky Walker)
Susan Day.jpg
:D


(Dear Pyrrho. Can I please have a million dollar grant from the Skeptic Society research fund, I need to hire 20 teenage girls who look like Susan Dey, some with braces and some without,. I then need to drive around the USA in a bus with the girls and see if any of them can pick up local radio stations)
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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by Gord » Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:40 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:53 am
(Dear Pyrrho. Can I please have a million dollar grant from the Skeptic Society research fund, I need to hire 20 teenage girls who look like Susan Dey, some with braces and some without,. I then need to drive around the USA in a bus with the girls and see if any of them can pick up local radio stations)
...stopping in city after city to sing songs to sold-out audiences while dressed in ugly outfits from the 70s.
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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:24 am

Gord wrote: ...stopping in city after city to sing songs to sold-out audiences while dressed in ugly outfits from the 70s.
partridge-family-2000.jpg
You can be David Cassidy. Pyrrho can be Reuben Kincaid. Gorgeous can be Danny Patridge. :D
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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by Gord » Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:10 pm

I wanna be Danny! He got the coolest hairstyles and the best lines.

"I refuse to get into a battle of wits with an unarmed man."

Classic.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:30 pm

Gord wrote:I wanna be Danny! He got the coolest hairstyles and the best lines.
Gord. I hate to tell you this. If you look at the rest of the Partridge family. They all have brown or blonde hair. However Danny has bright red hair and freckles.

I need to remind you that the Partridge family was a touring rock band and Mrs Partridge had "needs" after Mr Partridge ran off with Janis Joplin and they both became speed users and manufacturers. ( That was one of my favorite episodes. "Mr Partridge has some hits of his own")

Do you remember the episode where Mrs Partridge takes that bad LSD trip in Newark and wakes up backstage underneath Danny Kaye? Mrs Partridge discovers she is pregnant and steals the bus, they continue to escape in, for the rest of the series. That episode was "Back Bus Banging with Mrs P" and much loved by children and future fans of the Partridge Family..

Frankly I thought the spin off series of the Partridge Family, with Mr Partridge, "Breaking Bad" was a bit too soft and didn't show the realistic drug use, grittiness and depravity of the original Partridge Family series.

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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by Gord » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:46 pm

The non-relatedness of Danny to that horrible blonde/brunette whitebread family was one of the strongest attractions. The only downside to being they Danny character would be the very real danger of drowning in the mayonnaise-based culture that was the rest of his family unit.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:46 am

Gord wrote:The non-relatedness of Danny to that horrible blonde/brunette whitebread family was one of the strongest attractions. The only downside to being they Danny character would be the very real danger of drowning in the mayonnaise-based culture that was the rest of his family unit.
I think you are suggesting that Danny Partridge was the comic relief character. :D

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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by Gord » Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:30 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:46 am
Gord wrote:The non-relatedness of Danny to that horrible blonde/brunette whitebread family was one of the strongest attractions. The only downside to being they Danny character would be the very real danger of drowning in the mayonnaise-based culture that was the rest of his family unit.
I think you are suggesting that Danny Partridge was the comic relief character. :D
Nah. The anti-hero.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by Gord » Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:31 pm

Gord wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:46 pm
The non-relatedness of Danny to that horrible blonde/brunette whitebread family was one of the strongest attractions. The only downside to being they Danny character would be the very real danger of drowning in the mayonnaise-based culture that was the rest of his family unit.
the
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by landrew » Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:01 pm

Gord wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:31 pm
Gord wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:46 pm
The non-relatedness of Danny to that horrible blonde/brunette whitebread family was one of the strongest attractions. The only downside to being they Danny character would be the very real danger of drowning in the mayonnaise-based culture that was the rest of his family unit.
the
This makes you slightly less annoying.
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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by Gord » Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:23 pm

landrew wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:01 pm
Gord wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:31 pm
Gord wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:46 pm
The non-relatedness of Danny to that horrible blonde/brunette whitebread family was one of the strongest attractions. The only downside to being they Danny character would be the very real danger of drowning in the mayonnaise-based culture that was the rest of his family unit.
the
This makes you slightly less annoying.
amazing
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by Io » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:50 pm

Nothing can make you less amazing, Gord.

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Re: EVPs and the Panasonic DR60

Post by Gord » Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:02 pm

I am mighty, like the hippo.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?