Defending Reincarnation

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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:46 pm

Aztexan wrote:If anyone is dumb enough to believe the body and self are two distinct entities, then couldn't murderers claim that they didn't kill their victims, they just freed them from their physical constraints?


States/Government have never taken that position....well, maybe a few regarding their enemies?........but its a popular theme among family members killing one another. In modern times, even with the express agreement and submission by the one freed (Death with Dignity).

The body and the self are two distinct entities......the self dependent on the body but very separate from it.

distinct: not alike; different in nature or quality. Who would disagree?
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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby Poodle » Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:50 pm

:wave: Me, sir

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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:02 pm

Poodle wrote::wave: Me, sir
===>Go Ahead.
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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby Poodle » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:32 pm

Well, we could start here, bobbo ...

"The body and the self are two distinct entities......the self dependent on the body but very separate from it."

I don't think that's true. Can you provide evidence of its truth?

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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby Aztexan » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Is this an issue of semantics? The self being different from the brain being different from the mind being different from the soul?
My brain could technically function outside my body, but my brain is part of my body and it wouldn't be me anyways.
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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:02 pm

Poodle wrote:Well, we could start here, bobbo ...

"The body and the self are two distinct entities......the self dependent on the body but very separate from it."

I don't think that's true. Can you provide evidence of its truth?

Well........its just a very direct application of the DEFINITION of self.......and perhaps a lack of recognition on your part of what dependent means?

distinct: not alike; different in nature or quality. Who would disagree? //// The body is physical, the self is not physical but is a mental state completely not physical at all. Surely that is different in nature and quality.

dependent: one not existing without some other. Here, the body can exist without the mind/self but not contra. Another distinction.

...Az: no semantics at all. Just simple definitions. Semantics applying at a different level.......but I won't say distinct, because that would be word play.
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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby Confidencia » Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:24 pm

Poodle wrote:
Confidencia wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Confidencia wrote:Because I exist yet I do not.
Set fire to yourself. We will video you screaming. See how easy science is to do? :lol:

Confidencia Movie.jpg

The reaction of the body to an impact merely proves something has happened to the body, not to me. The body functions by itself, if you don't believe me try to stop the feces from coming out of your mouth or arshole for that matter. :lol: :mrgreen:


And if you really believe that, con, go jump off a high cliff. Report back here with your observations after the event. With pics, of course.


There is the fact of feeling to consider. Would you put your hands in the fire knowing you are going to get burnt? You seem to be forgetting the aspect of suffering poodle. Whatever the body goes through it is going to be felt by the consciousness - unfortunately as long as the body is in view it's pain and suffering will be too.

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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:31 pm

So...you exist. No "not" about it.
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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby Poodle » Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:33 pm

There is, indeed, the fact of feeling to consider, Confidencia. Thank goodness you've realised that before you actually claimed your immunity to the general effects of living in a universe.
Hypocritical fraud.

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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby Confidencia » Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:26 pm

Aztexan wrote:If anyone is dumb enough to believe the body and self are two distinct entities, then couldn't murderers claim that they didn't kill their victims, they just freed them from their physical constraints?


You could regardless but I doubt whether society would let you get away with it.

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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:35 pm

Con: I note you choose to avoid the issue that matters and simply repeat what everyone has already agreed to.

You wont progress that way. Waste of your time here on Earth...........don't ya think?
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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby Confidencia » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:06 pm

Poodle wrote:There is, indeed, the fact of feeling to consider, Confidencia. Thank goodness you've realised that before you actually claimed your immunity to the general effects of living in a universe.
Hypocritical fraud.


The general effects of the universe are relative to the absolute. And since the source of consciousness cannot be an object in consciousness it also makes it untouchable as well as immune.

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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby Confidencia » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:16 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Con: I note you choose to avoid the issue that matters and simply repeat what everyone has already agreed to.

You wont progress that way. Waste of your time here on Earth...........don't ya think?


The issue that matters has not even been touched, we'll need to get beyond the elementary level before we can start there. This has always been the problem, trying to get you skeptics to understand a direct question, more so to respond with a direct answer is more than the jobs worth. But there's always some fun to be had during the process, that's what keeps me here. 8-)

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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby Confidencia » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:23 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:So...you exist. No "not" about it.

From the perspective of the mind I exist yet I do not. In reality what does it matter? Existence relates to some-thing. No-thing exists in reality.

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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:27 pm

Confidencia wrote: From the perspective of the mind I exist yet I do not. In reality what does it matter?


When we set fire to you and you start screaming,.......... You will quickly drop your confused religious bull-shit. :D

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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:11 pm

What Matt said.

Get real.
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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby Confidencia » Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:48 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Confidencia wrote: From the perspective of the mind I exist yet I do not. In reality what does it matter?


When we set fire to you and you start screaming,.......... You will quickly drop your confused religious bull-shit. :D


:lol: I doubt whether you'd have the bottle to say boo to a goose much less setting anybody alight. Little man syndrome is written all over your posts. :lol:

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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby Cadmusteeth » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:03 am

Little men fit into tight places.

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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby TJrandom » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:03 am

Louisa would be proud of Matthew.

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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:43 am

Confidencia wrote: I exist yet I do not. In reality what does it matter?
Matthew Ellard wrote:When we set fire to you and you start screaming,.......... You will quickly drop your confused religious bull-shit. :D
Confidencia wrote: I doubt whether you'd have the bottle to say boo to a goose much less setting anybody alight.
Well it would certainly be more exciting than your hippy plan to bore us to death with religious nonsense. :lol:

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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby Aztexan » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:43 am

Confidencia wrote:
Aztexan wrote:If anyone is dumb enough to believe the body and self are two distinct entities, then couldn't murderers claim that they didn't kill their victims, they just freed them from their physical constraints?


You could regardless but I doubt whether society would let you get away with it.


Is that a challenge?
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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby Confidencia » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:56 am

Cadmusteeth wrote:Little men fit into tight places.


You kid me not cad, wherever ellard seems to raise his head you can bet your bottom dollar he's just crawled out of somebody's chocolate star fish :lol: :lol: :lol: hence the reason why he's so ignorant. He hardly sees the light of day :lol:

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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby Confidencia » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:57 am

Aztexan wrote:
Confidencia wrote:
Aztexan wrote:If anyone is dumb enough to believe the body and self are two distinct entities, then couldn't murderers claim that they didn't kill their victims, they just freed them from their physical constraints?


You could regardless but I doubt whether society would let you get away with it.


Is that a challenge?


No it's a fact

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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby Confidencia » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:59 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Confidencia wrote: I exist yet I do not. In reality what does it matter?
Matthew Ellard wrote:When we set fire to you and you start screaming,.......... You will quickly drop your confused religious bull-shit. :D
Confidencia wrote: I doubt whether you'd have the bottle to say boo to a goose much less setting anybody alight.
Well it would certainly be more exciting than your hippy plan to bore us to death with religious nonsense. :lol:


Such is the nature of the little man that even the smallest of things cause a whorl of excitement in his tiny little mind.

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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:10 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:Well it would certainly be more exciting than your hippy plan to bore us to death with religious nonsense. :lol:
Confidencia AKA Shaka AKA Clarifyit4me wrote: Such is the nature of the little man that even the smallest of things cause a whorl of excitement in his tiny little mind.


Poor Poor Shaka, You changed your forum name five times and still everyone laughs at your repetitive drivel. :lol:

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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby Dubious » Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:32 am

If reincarnation exists it can only be as something provided by nature for purposes of its own. So again what would that be above and beyond all the nonsensical reasons supplied by the likes of Buddhism which amount to silliness incarnate.

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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby Poodle » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:56 am

Chocolate star fish?
Wossat, then?

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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby Aztexan » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:35 am

Apparently he wants to get into a pissing match with Matthew "Horsecock" Ellard.
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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:03 pm

Aztexan wrote:Apparently he wants to get into a pissing match with Matthew "Horsecock" Ellard.

I don't think so. Shaka is a failed Advaita teacher in the UK. He's just old and senile and is trolling from loneliness.

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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby MindGem » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:53 pm

I would suggest that you picked a smaller subject to debate, something you could grasp, wrap your head around before you start a really big question like afterlife.

But if you insist and find it interesting to swap ideas around then Start with the definition. You can't all just yell out things if you have two separate ideas of what incarnation is in detail. Set up some rules that you both agree upon, then it gets more interesting to play.

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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:23 am

MindGem wrote:But if you insist and find it interesting to swap ideas around then Start with the definition. You can't all just yell out things if you have two separate ideas of what incarnation is in detail. Set up some rules that you both agree upon, then it gets more interesting to play.


This is a science based forum and thus follows the scientific method. That means anyone wishing to debate reincarnation, as real, has to set out their hypothesis for reincarnation and that hypothesis must be detailed and falsifiable.

Sadly, we have lots of religious troll who insist on posting gibberish simply to get attention for their religion. They are easy to spot because they refuse the ever write down a hypothesis for their religious claims.

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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:15 pm

MindGem wrote:But if you insist and find it interesting to swap ideas around then Start with the definition. You can't all just yell out things if you have two separate ideas of what incarnation is in detail. Set up some rules that you both agree upon, then it gets more interesting to play.
Nearly all All the wooists who come in here either fail or refuse to define their terms, formulate a hypothesis, and provide evidence for it. They tend to be overly attached to anecdotal data that conforms with their biases. But they're fun to play with! :duel: :mrgreen:
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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby Gord » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:35 am

Death fascinates a symphony of belonging. The web of life undertakes innumerable bliss. The mind relies on new brains. The secret of the universe is entangled in unique energy. Our consciousness drives essential belonging. (Making tea depends on unparalleled happiness.) Each of us is reborn in the barrier of knowledge.
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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby TJrandom » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:45 am

Gord wrote:Death fascinates a symphony of belonging. The web of life undertakes innumerable bliss. The mind relies on new brains. The secret of the universe is entangled in unique energy. Our consciousness drives essential belonging. (Making tea depends on unparalleled happiness.) Each of us is reborn in the barrier of knowledge.


The cosmos is awash in consciousness – each replete with infinite entities. Lo, behold the one we all are, asking questions knowing the answers span the duel universes of the mental, born of truth, eternal death and infinite consciousness.

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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby Cadmusteeth » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:14 pm

“Let there be no Genesis, for beginnings are false and I am a consummate liar.”
-???

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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby Gord » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:27 pm

TJrandom wrote:
Gord wrote:Death fascinates a symphony of belonging. The web of life undertakes innumerable bliss. The mind relies on new brains. The secret of the universe is entangled in unique energy. Our consciousness drives essential belonging. (Making tea depends on unparalleled happiness.) Each of us is reborn in the barrier of knowledge.

The cosmos is awash in consciousness – each replete with infinite entities. Lo, behold the one we all are, asking questions knowing the answers span the duel universes of the mental, born of truth, eternal death and infinite consciousness.

:shock: Which random generator did you use? It looks much better than the one I used!







...oh, wait, yours said "duel" instead of "dual". Never mind. It's broken. :P
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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby TJrandom » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:21 am

Gord wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
Gord wrote:Death fascinates a symphony of belonging. The web of life undertakes innumerable bliss. The mind relies on new brains. The secret of the universe is entangled in unique energy. Our consciousness drives essential belonging. (Making tea depends on unparalleled happiness.) Each of us is reborn in the barrier of knowledge.

The cosmos is awash in consciousness – each replete with infinite entities. Lo, behold the one we all are, asking questions knowing the answers span the duel universes of the mental, born of truth, eternal death and infinite consciousness.

:shock: Which random generator did you use? It looks much better than the one I used!




...oh, wait, yours said "duel" instead of "dual". Never mind. It's broken. :P


I just went back thru some of Confidencia`s word salads and picked up a few wordz - f### if I know what it means. Duel, dual, do all - is there a difference?

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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby Gord » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:49 am

If there's a difference, I refuse to do all dual duels.
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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby Confidencia » Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:14 pm

Gord wrote:If there's a difference, I refuse to do all dual duels.


You may refuse it, but it smacks you in the face everytime you claim to be something that you are not , such as "I am" "human". There is the "I am" (which btw is all that you can be sure of) then there's is the "human". (which to all intent and purpose is only an idea and no more valid or significant than the idea of god).

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Re: Defending Reincarnation

Postby TJrandom » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:57 pm

Confidencia wrote:
Gord wrote:If there's a difference, I refuse to do all dual duels.


You may refuse it, but it smacks you in the face everytime you claim to be something that you are not , such as "I am" "human". There is the "I am" (which btw is all that you can be sure of) then there's is the "human". (which to all intent and purpose is only an idea and no more valid or significant than the idea of god).


Don`t we define a species, including being a human, by the capability to procreate with other members of the species? So are you trying to claim that gods are out there having sex? You may be on to something there, since there are so many gods about. Indeed, I just learned of another god yesterday.

We had guests a few days ago, and the wife later spoke with my wife by phone - commenting that she was worried that the `god of refrigerators` would be upset that we have magnets that hold notes on the front of our refrigerator - which will block this god from communicating with the other gods in our house. I presume these magnets would prevent them fornicating with those other gods too. First I knew.

And no {!#%@}, I am not making this up. Next time I buy a refrigerator, I`ll ask for one without a god. And, we will keep those magnets in place - just in case, and not wanting any refrigerator/doorway hybrid little gods running about.


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