Could near death experiences be both hallucinations and out of body?

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Omniverse
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Could near death experiences be both hallucinations and out of body?

Postby Omniverse » Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:50 pm

When it comes to near death experiences, people often debate as to whether they are just brain hallucinations or if they are a soul separating from the body. There is a model of the brain presented by Stuart Hameroff. I think his model might actually allow for ndes to be both hallucinations and a soul separate from body. Some people who have ndes report hallucinatory aspects such as seeing people who weren't there while others who have ndes have reported veridical perception. They saw and heard things that the researchers claimed they couldn't have possibly known had ndes been just brain hallucinations.

Also, people who have heavenly, blissful ndes report that they were just walking along in the blissful realms which is something that wouldn't be expected from the materialistic model of the brain because the brain, during a life crisis, is in a chaotic state. If ndes were just brain based hallucinations, then one would expect a person's nde to be chaotic and not just some stroll in a heavenly blissful place. By looking at the inconsistencies between the materialistic model of ndes and the aspects of ndes that people report (such as my example with the stroll in the blissful realms), then we could find out if ndes are either just brain based hallucinations, a genuine soul separate from body experience, or perhaps both.

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Re: Could near death experiences be both hallucinations and out of body?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:56 pm

veridical perception. ///// Often stated, never proven.
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Re: Could near death experiences be both hallucinations and out of body?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:05 am

Omniverse wrote:When it comes to near death experiences, people often debate as to whether they are just brain hallucinations or if they are a soul separating from the body.
No they don't. Idiots debate this nonsense. Educated people know it's just a psychological phenomena.

How the Brain Creates Out-of-Body Experiences / Live Science.
https://www.livescience.com/41128-out-o ... ained.html

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Re: Could near death experiences be both hallucinations and out of body?

Postby gorgeous » Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:26 am

^^^^"The findings suggest the brain relies on a complex interplay of information from different senses to produce the experience of being inside of a body — even when it's someone else's." ----------------------well...that's real proof....science built on suggestions...
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Could near death experiences be both hallucinations and out of body?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:31 am

gorgeous wrote:^^^^"The findings suggest the brain relies on a complex interplay of information from different senses to produce the experience of being inside of a body — even when it's someone else's." ----------------------well...that's real proof....science built on suggestions...

......a completely dishonest summation of the article. Science is not built on suggestions......science MAKES suggestions based on investigation, measurement, testing. You have a Mr Potato Face understanding of basic English as well as Science. Interesting to see it so obviously presented.
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Re: Could near death experiences be both hallucinations and out of body?

Postby gorgeous » Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:41 am

I suggest there are multiple dimensions......there... I made proof....
Last edited by gorgeous on Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Could near death experiences be both hallucinations and out of body?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:43 am

gorgeous wrote:I suggest there are multiple dimesions......there... I made proof....

.........

science MAKES suggestions based on investigation, measurement, testing. What you have done again laughably transparently is move Mr Potatoe's nose to below his ear.
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Re: Could near death experiences be both hallucinations and out of body?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:53 am

gorgeous wrote:I suggest there are multiple dimesions......there... I made proof....
No Gorgeous.

Firstly, the word is "dimensions" and not "dimesions".
Secondly, the 10 physical dimensions model is from the late 1970's when you were only thirty years old.
Thirdly, you are unable to name this theory.
:lol:

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Re: Could near death experiences be both hallucinations and out of body?

Postby Phoenix76 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:09 am

Ah Gorgeous, you are Gorgeous. Geez I hope I'm not sounding like person with alternative feelings.

As for NDE's, well hallucinations probably covers it well. As for out of body?? Oh {!#%@}, give it a break. If you cannot provide some proof, or at least association, then give it a break, and leave the rest of us in peace.

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Re: Could near death experiences be both hallucinations and out of body?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:54 am

Omniverse wrote:When it comes to near death experiences, people often debate as to whether they are just brain hallucinations or if they are a soul separating from the body. There is a model of the brain presented by Stuart Hameroff. I think his model might actually allow for ndes to be both hallucinations and a soul separate from body. Some people who have ndes report hallucinatory aspects such as seeing people who weren't there while others who have ndes have reported veridical perception. They saw and heard things that the researchers claimed they couldn't have possibly known had ndes been just brain hallucinations.

Also, people who have heavenly, blissful ndes report that they were just walking along in the blissful realms which is something that wouldn't be expected from the materialistic model of the brain because the brain, during a life crisis, is in a chaotic state. If ndes were just brain based hallucinations, then one would expect a person's nde to be chaotic and not just some stroll in a heavenly blissful place. By looking at the inconsistencies between the materialistic model of ndes and the aspects of ndes that people report (such as my example with the stroll in the blissful realms), then we could find out if ndes are either just brain based hallucinations, a genuine soul separate from body experience, or perhaps both.

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Re: Could near death experiences be both hallucinations and out of body?

Postby gorgeous » Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:50 pm

Phoenix76 wrote:Ah Gorgeous, you are Gorgeous. Geez I hope I'm not sounding like person with alternative feelings.

As for NDE's, well hallucinations probably covers it well. As for out of body?? Oh {!#%@}, give it a break. If you cannot provide some proof, or at least association, then give it a break, and leave the rest of us in peace.

---------where is the proof that you exist? Can you prove you have a mind?
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Could near death experiences be both hallucinations and out of body?

Postby Phoenix76 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:33 am

I must exist, you just answered me! And I must have a mind because I wrote the post in the first place, and now I'm answering you!

Not one of your best comebacks G.

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Re: Could near death experiences be both hallucinations and out of body?

Postby Kamil » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:15 am

Omniverse wrote:When it comes to near death experiences, people often debate as to whether they are just brain hallucinations or if they are a soul separating from the body. There is a model of the brain presented by Stuart Hameroff. I think his model might actually allow for ndes to be both hallucinations and a soul separate from body. Some people who have ndes report hallucinatory aspects such as seeing people who weren't there while others who have ndes have reported veridical perception. They saw and heard things that the researchers claimed they couldn't have possibly known had ndes been just brain hallucinations.

Also, people who have heavenly, blissful ndes report that they were just walking along in the blissful realms which is something that wouldn't be expected from the materialistic model of the brain because the brain, during a life crisis, is in a chaotic state. If ndes were just brain based hallucinations, then one would expect a person's nde to be chaotic and not just some stroll in a heavenly blissful place. By looking at the inconsistencies between the materialistic model of ndes and the aspects of ndes that people report (such as my example with the stroll in the blissful realms), then we could find out if ndes are either just brain based hallucinations, a genuine soul separate from body experience, or perhaps both.


Believe me, I believed in NDEs for the longest time, and I cannot say for certain they aren't really a soul leaving the body, but what everyone says on here is true: no one has ever actually proven veridical perception. Shen, one of the users on here has many posts where he challenges NDE claims and exposes all the holes in the validity of these claims. There have been some NDEs and OBEs that habe been made up, as admitted by researchers. Many of these claims get published years later. Another thing is that your assumption here is out of line. What is the purpose of these NDEs? Is it a God trying to send each NDEr a message? If so, how effective is it when according to you, some NDEs are hallucinations and others are not? Even if that were true, it is not like we could take them seriously, as we wouldn't know who has a genuine NDE and who does not. It could be that one or two of these veridical perceptions were really due to a soul, but you haven't ruled out other possibilities. More proof is needed.

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Re: Could near death experiences be both hallucinations and out of body?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:01 am

Kamil wrote:Believe me, I believed in NDEs for the longest time, and I cannot say for certain they aren't really a soul leaving the body,
Science already know what causes people to think they experience NDEs

Near-Death Experiences Explained by Science
https://www.livescience.com/16019-death ... ained.html

You are trolling, using an out of date, useless, bronze age religious fantasy, on a science based forum. Go away.

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Re: Could near death experiences be both hallucinations and out of body?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:07 am

"Believe me.........." ///// Ha, ha.
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Re: Could near death experiences be both hallucinations and out of body?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:13 am

Kamil wrote: Is it a God trying to send each NDEr a message?
Yep God is saying "You are near death....so, if you are religious....hurry up and die".

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Re: Could near death experiences be both hallucinations and out of body?

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:19 pm

"Near death" isn't death, so whatever it is tells you nothing of "beyond".
Scientists don't know everything, therefore my favorite flavor of stoopidz is true.


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