Phenomena: The Secret History of the U.S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis

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Phenomena: The Secret History of the U.S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis

Postby ElectricMonk » Thu May 18, 2017 10:05 am

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/30841980-phenomena

I haven't read it, but there is a nice interview of the author on Reuters War College:

"Podcast: The psychics with top secret security clearance" :
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-warco ... SKBN17Z2KP

This stuff is serious enough to keep spending tax money on, even to this day.

Thanks Nazis! Getting your rocket scientists was nice, but did we have to inherit your Occult Research?


Enjoy everyone!
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Re: Phenomena: The Secret History of the U.S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Thu May 18, 2017 10:34 am

Some guy who has survived to a high position and enough pull to get a project approved, but who isn't savvy enough to realize this is BS, that's the breed we're talking about, I think.
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Re: Phenomena: The Secret History of the U.S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis

Postby gorgeous » Thu May 18, 2017 1:10 pm

told ya
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Phenomena: The Secret History of the U.S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis

Postby ElectricMonk » Thu May 18, 2017 1:16 pm

gorgeous wrote:told ya



knew you would like it !
I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
Spoiler:
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.
- Douglas Adams

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Re: Phenomena: The Secret History of the U.S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Thu May 18, 2017 2:42 pm

gorgeous wrote:told ya

If there was a blather machine somewhere it would have told us too. :roll:
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Re: Phenomena: The Secret History of the U.S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu May 18, 2017 11:39 pm

gorgeous wrote:told ya
You really are an idiot. The book is the history of the DIA program and states it was closed down......as do the released CIA documents.....saying it was closed down because it didn't work.

May I remind everyone that Gorgeous keeps posting about the bloke, Joseph McMoneagle, who worked on this for the DIA and made the claim humans evolved from otters.

I also remind people that Joseph McMoneagle, now works for the con-artist Monroe Institute for "remote viewers" who can't find their car keys, let alone MH370.
:lol:

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Re: Phenomena: The Secret History of the U.S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis

Postby Gord » Fri May 19, 2017 1:55 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
gorgeous wrote:told ya

If there was a blather machine somewhere it would have told us too. :roll:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4jbq9SVxAc
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Re: Phenomena: The Secret History of the U.S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis

Postby gorgeous » Fri May 19, 2017 2:16 pm

gorgeous wrote:told ya

....----gorgeous is always right...get used to it.. :mrgreen:
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Phenomena: The Secret History of the U.S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis

Postby Poodle » Fri May 19, 2017 10:34 pm

We used to say that about Margaret Thatcher.
Let that be a lesson!

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Re: Phenomena: The Secret History of the U.S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis

Postby Genaro » Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:22 pm

it was closed down because it didn't work.


Do you have a high level top secret security clearance, Matthew?

Because if you don't, then you have no idea what the DIA, CIA, NSA, etc. are actually doing or not doing.

Do you need me to explain to you why that is an undeniable fact?

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Re: Phenomena: The Secret History of the U.S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis

Postby Lance Kennedy » Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:31 pm

Genaro

Psychic phenomena, if real, could be done by all kinds of people, and lots have tried. And failed. Find me a report on psychic phenomena in a recent, peer reviewed and reputable scientific journal. I dare you!

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Re: Phenomena: The Secret History of the U.S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis

Postby gorgeous » Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:25 am

Selected Psi Research Publications - Dean Radin



deanradin.com/evidence/evidence.htm



May 3, 2016 - This is a selected list of peer-reviewed journal articles about psi (psychic) phenomena, most published in the 21st century. There are also some ...
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Phenomena: The Secret History of the U.S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis

Postby scrmbldggs » Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:36 am

rep·u·ta·ble
/ˈrepyədəb(ə)l/
adjective
adjective: reputable

having a good reputation.
"a reputable company"
synonyms: well-thought-of, highly regarded, respected, well respected, respectable, of (good) repute, prestigious, established; reliable, dependable, trustworthy...
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: Phenomena: The Secret History of the U.S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:31 am

Genaro wrote: Do you have a high level top secret security clearance, Matthew?

No Genaro, I have better than that. I have the CIA documents saying that remote viewing doesn't work and explaining why they withdrew any funding thirty years ago and declassified all documents.

What makes you a complete idiot is that you can't actually define what remote viewing is, and the only person who claims remote viewing works, from the original CIA experiments, Joseph McMoneagle, also claims humans evolved from otters.
:lol:

CIA releases psychic experiment documents
"Among the millions of declassified documents that the CIA uploaded to its site this week, quite a few reveal information about the Stargate Project, a $20 million secret program that started in the mid-1970s to try to develop psychic abilities in agents and military personnel. The project proved to be fruitless, and the CIA closed down the Stargate Project in 1995. "

Here is a direct link to the CIA's reading room where you can read the original documents yourself. :lol:
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom ... i%20geller

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Re: Phenomena: The Secret History of the U.S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:42 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:Genaro, Psychic phenomena, if real, could be done by all kinds of people, and lots have tried. And failed. Find me a report on psychic phenomena in a recent, peer reviewed and reputable scientific journal. I dare you!

In essence, Genaro and Gorgeous are very very upset, as the CIA released all the historical "remote viewing documents" in January 2017. This means all the fringe paranormal fan books before this date, that claim the CIA successfully used remote viewing immediately became redundant and untrue.

It is emotionally similar to them, as to telling three years olds that Santa isn't real.
crying child.jpg
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Re: Phenomena: The Secret History of the U.S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis

Postby Lance Kennedy » Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:44 am

Gorgeous

There is insufficient detail in your reference to access it. But I note it is a Dean Radin reference. This man has been exposed by reputable scientists as a cherry picker of data. His conclusions are made possible by the 'file drawer' system. Meaning he files any data that he finds inconvenient, and his conclusions are based on cherry picked material. That is .... his conclusions are totally invalid.

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debunked paranormal claims : History

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:58 am

Dean Radin and his flawed logic was specifically debunked by CSICOP. (The Committee for Skeptical Inquiry).

When Big Evidence Isn’t: The Statistical Pitfalls of Dean Radin’s Supernormal
http://www.csicop.org/si/show/when_big_ ... upernormal

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Re: Phenomena: The Secret History of the U.S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis

Postby Genaro » Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:46 am

No Genaro, I have better than that. I have the CIA documents saying that remote viewing doesn't work


That's great, Matt. Since you have them, could you please provide a link to the CIA docs that you have that specifically say that "remote viewing doesn't work"?

Thanks in advance.

BTW, you didn't answer my question. But that's OK because you've answered it inadvertently thanks to your OCD that causes you to always make absolutist statements. A condition that seems to run rampant in this forum.

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Re: Phenomena: The Secret History of the U.S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis

Postby Genaro » Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:01 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:Genaro

Psychic phenomena, if real, could be done by all kinds of people, and lots have tried. And failed. Find me a report on psychic phenomena in a recent, peer reviewed and reputable scientific journal. I dare you!


Lance, Gorgeous has already provided you with links to multiple recent peer reviewed studies on Psi.

Here are some more:

https://carlossalvarado.wordpress.com/2013/11/06/sites-with-links-to-parapsychology-articles-i/

Of course, you won't read any of them. That's because you're a denialist who in reality has no real interest in science unless it fits your narrow and pedantic materialist worldview.

I will give you credit for one thing. You're not as bone ass stupid as Matthew. But that ain't sayin' much.

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Re: Phenomena: The Secret History of the U.S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis

Postby ElectricMonk » Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:09 pm

Genaro wrote:
No Genaro, I have better than that. I have the CIA documents saying that remote viewing doesn't work


That's great, Matt. Since you have them, could you please provide a link to the CIA docs that you have that specifically say that "remote viewing doesn't work"?



we could.

But then we'd have to shoot you.
I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
Spoiler:
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.
- Douglas Adams

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Re: Phenomena: The Secret History of the U.S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:35 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:
Genaro wrote:
No Genaro, I have better than that. I have the CIA documents saying that remote viewing doesn't work


That's great, Matt. Since you have them, could you please provide a link to the CIA docs that you have that specifically say that "remote viewing doesn't work"?



we could.

But then we'd have to shoot you.

But seriously, do we even need an excuse at this point?
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Re: Phenomena: The Secret History of the U.S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis

Postby Lance Kennedy » Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:20 pm

Genaro wrote:
Here are some more:

https://carlossalvarado.wordpress.com/2013/11/06/sites-with-links-to-parapsychology-articles-i/

Of course, you won't read any of them. That's because you're a denialist who in reality has no real interest in science unless it fits your narrow and pedantic materialist worldview.

I will give you credit for one thing. You're not as bone ass stupid as Matthew. But that ain't sayin' much.


I took a look.
Most unimpressive. The list is two kinds of article.
1. Articles in journals already dedicated to bulldust, like the European Journal of Parapsychology. These are not what we can call reputable by scientific standards.
2. Articles on aspects of psychology in psychology journals, which are mistaken by those who believe in this superstition, as psychic. Like dissociation feelings, for example.

Sorry, Genaro, that is not going to convince anyone.

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Re: Phenomena: The Secret History of the U.S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis

Postby gorgeous » Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:41 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:Gorgeous

There is insufficient detail in your reference to access it. But I note it is a Dean Radin reference. This man has been exposed by reputable scientists as a cherry picker of data. His conclusions are made possible by the 'file drawer' system. Meaning he files any data that he finds inconvenient, and his conclusions are based on cherry picked material. That is .... his conclusions are totally invalid.

---ditto...how is that different from any of you?
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Re: Phenomena: The Secret History of the U.S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis

Postby Lance Kennedy » Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:10 pm

How is it different?
We respect science and base our belief systems on good scientific data. That data is not the result of cherry picking.

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Re: Phenomena: The Secret History of the U.S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis

Postby Genaro » Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:46 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:How is it different?
We respect science and base our belief systems on good scientific data. That data is not the result of cherry picking.


OK Lance. Let's see all your peer reviewed "good scientific data" that conclusively proves Dr. Radin's work is invalid.

Just so you know, I don't give a rats ass about anyone's "belief systems". Belief systems and science go together like oil and water.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/belief

Belief

noun


1. something believed; an opinion or conviction:
a belief that the earth is flat.

2. confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof:
a statement unworthy of belief.

3. confidence; faith; trust:
a child's belief in his parents.

4. a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith:
the Christian belief.

Belief is nothing more than faith. Faith and hope are for losers. Knowledge (especially experiential knowledge) is all that matters.

The similarities between pseudo-skeptics and fundamentalist Christians are striking. You're cut out of the exact same bolt of cloth. Which is why pseudo-skeptics can't stand fundamentalist Christians. It's too close to home.

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Re: Phenomena: The Secret History of the U.S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis

Postby Lance Kennedy » Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:01 pm

To Genaro

I believe that the Earth is warming, and that this is due to human activities in releasing greenhouse gases. I lack the personal expertise to check this point, since I am not a climate scientist. But the rational thing to do is accept the consensus of true climate scientists.

In exactly the same way, I have done little in the way of research into psychic phenomena ( not quite zero. I have done the usual attempts to do 'psychic stuff' that teenagers get into. Total failure.) But I am aware that reputable scientists have looked deeply into the field, and found zilch. In other words, all the 'psychic stuff' fails to perform when rigorously and scientifically tested. I accept the work and conclusions of those reputable researchers, and this is the rational thing to do.

There have always been those who believe in weird stuff, and cannot be dissuaded. In days gone by, it was sightings of angels, demons, witches, monsters etc. Today it is psychic stuff, and aliens from outer space. The only proper guide is good research. That has been done, and the findings are for no psychic stuff. Sadly, there are always irrational people who deny good scientific results. Your Dr. Radin is one such. All rational and critical thinking people can do is accept that some people will persistently cling to nonsense, and make sure we are not in that group.

I reject superstition.

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Re: Phenomena: The Secret History of the U.S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis

Postby gorgeous » Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:27 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:How is it different?
We respect science and base our belief systems on good scientific data. That data is not the result of cherry picking.

-----is....you reject evidence that goes against your rigid belief system...
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Phenomena: The Secret History of the U.S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis

Postby Lance Kennedy » Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:36 pm

I reject non data.
That is, stuff that has been tested and found to be wrong.
Superstitious people refuse to accept such test results.

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Re: Phenomena: The Secret History of the U.S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:47 am

Genaro wrote:Could you please provide a link to the CIA docs that you have that specifically say that "remote viewing doesn't work"?
Enjoy.

"Operational Capabilities" Document
CIA-RDP96-00792R000600220001-7.pdf

"Replication problems, Inadequate Controls File, Drawer Problems" Documents
CIA-RDP96-00792R000100130003-0.pdf

Clairvoyants caught cheating in experiment.
CIA-RDP96-00792R000400330015-2.pdf

No evidence of RA in replicated experiment with stricter protocols.
CIA-RDP96-00787R000300300001-7.pdf

Uri Geller methodology for falsifying results / eywitness
CIA-RDP96-00791R000100450002-7.pd

Serious doubt Geller anything more than stage magic
CIA-RDP96-00787R000400070029-2.pdf

Invalid results in early remote viewing test protocols
CIA-RDP96-00788R001200230039-3.pdf
Last edited by Matthew Ellard on Sat Jun 03, 2017 6:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Phenomena: The Secret History of the U.S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis

Postby gorgeous » Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:55 am

what is superstious to you?
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Phenomena: The Secret History of the U.S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Jun 03, 2017 2:01 am

Genaro wrote: Lance, Gorgeous has already provided you with links to multiple recent peer reviewed studies on Psi.
Gorgeous linked us to all Joseph McMoneagle (EX CIA remote viewer) studies and remote viewing successes.

"Joseph McMoneagle future predictions included the passing of a teenager's "Right to Work" Bill, a new religion without the emphasis of Christianity, a science of the soul, a vaccine for AIDS, a movement to eliminate television, and a 'temporary tattoo' craze that would replace the wearing of clothing, all of which were supposedly to take place between 2002 and 2006."

However Joseph McMoneagle's greatest success was...
" According to McMoneagle, humans came from creatures somewhat like sea otters rather than primates and were created in a laboratory by creators who "seeded" the earth and then departed"

So..... both you and Gorgeous evolved from otters?
otter 3.jpg



Genaro wrote:You're not as bone ass stupid as Matthew. But that ain't sayin' much.
Dear retarded boy. You are the idiot who ran away from the forum after claiming birthmarks were evidence of reincarnation of people who died from gunshot trauma and forgot 18 million people died of gunshot and related trauma in WWI ......yet there was no increase in birthmarks.

As idiots go, you are number one!
:D
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fairies, unicorns, Gorgeous and Genaro.

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Jun 03, 2017 2:10 am

Genaro wrote: OK Lance. Let's see all your peer reviewed "good scientific data" that conclusively proves Dr. Radin's work is invalid.

When Big Evidence Isn’t: The Statistical Pitfalls of Dean Radin’s Supernormal

"Radin relies upon meta-analyses and misrepresentations of published results to produce outlandish confidence numbers that work against the very belief he is trying to foster."

http://www.csicop.org/si/show/when_big_ ... upernormal


However, why waste time? Shen has already started a large thread debunking Dean Radin's experiments and statistics on a case by case post. Shen is somewhere in Slovakia and I will see if we can get him to join this discussion.

Shen takes apart Dean Radin.
viewtopic.php?t=22973#p396123

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Re: Fairies, unicorns, Gorgeous and Genaro.

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Jun 03, 2017 2:25 am

........ According to McMoneagle, humans came from creatures somewhat like sea otters rather than primates and were created in a laboratory by creators who "seeded" the earth and then departed".
otters.jpg
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Re: Phenomena: The Secret History of the U.S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis

Postby Lance Kennedy » Sat Jun 03, 2017 3:53 am

gorgeous wrote:what is superstious to you?


Any belief that flies in the face of proper testing. When a scientist tests something and finds it wrong, and you persist in believing it, that is superstition. That definition applies to all so called psychic phenomena.

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Re: Phenomena: The Secret History of the U.S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis

Postby gorgeous » Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:08 pm

NSA Stargate remote viewing file -----PSYCHOENERGETICS RESEARCH
DEFENSE INTELLIGENCE AGENCY
DIRECTORATE FOR SCIENTIFIC AND TECHNICAL INTELLIGENCE
7 August 1984 - 2.00MB (pdf file)


Key highlights from the document are:
------- Psychoenergetics has its place somewhere between psychology and the other social sciences. It has not been reduced to mathematics and there is no physical model, but psychoenergetics does have many characteristics that are common to all science.

The first of these characteristics is replication. If an area of endeavor is to be considered a science, experiments must be replicable. When the results obtained in one laboratory cannot be obtained under the same experimental conditions in other laboratories, the work will be neglected and will be considered to fall outside the parameters of science.

The work in psychoenergetics at SRI has been replicated by several laboratories:
~ Remote Viewing (ESP)
- Princeton University, Princeton, NJ
- Institute for Parapsychology, Durham, NC
- Mundelein College, Chicago, IL
- University of California at Davis, CA
~ Remote Action (psychokinesis)
- Princeton University, Princeton, NJ
- Mind Science Foundation, San Antonio, TX
- Maimonides Medical Center, Brooklyn, NY
- Psychophysical Research Laboratory, Princeton, NJ
- Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
- Bell Laboratories, Columbus, OH.

These are all bonafide scientific research and development institutes. In all, there have been 28 formal published replications of the remote viewing work at SRI. Obviously, this phenomenon is not an invention of SRI; it has been duplicated on a number of occasions. -----------------------------------works....
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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scrmbldggs
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Re: Phenomena: The Secret History of the U.S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis

Postby scrmbldggs » Sat Jun 03, 2017 3:06 pm

:rotfl:
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

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Lance Kennedy
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Re: Phenomena: The Secret History of the U.S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis

Postby Lance Kennedy » Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:21 pm

Gorgeous.

What is in the past, and rejected by the present has to be seen as garbage.

The fact that, 200 years ago, everyone believed in witches, and took that belief to the extent of killing tens of thousands of innocent women accused of being witches, does not mean there are, or ever have been, witches.

Past beliefs are today' superstitions.

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gorgeous
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Re: Phenomena: The Secret History of the U.S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis

Postby gorgeous » Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:48 pm

nope
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Lance Kennedy
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Re: Phenomena: The Secret History of the U.S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis

Postby Lance Kennedy » Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:20 pm

Yep.

And most definitely yep in relation to research on psychic phenomena which were found to be non existent.

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Elves, Unicorns, Gorgeous & Genaro

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:56 pm

gorgeous wrote:NSA Stargate remote viewing file -----PSYCHOENERGETICS RESEARCH
DEFENSE INTELLIGENCE AGENCY DIRECTORATE FOR SCIENTIFIC AND TECHNICAL INTELLIGENCE
.


Poor little upset Gorgeous. I have linked to the original CIA documents above. Stargate was closed down thirty years ago, because it didn't work and then came the other embarrassments, that Uri Geller was a fraud and simply used stage magic and other "remote viewers" being tested claimed we evolved from otters.
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