SKEPTICISM & THE SHERMER BRAND

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SKEPTICISM & THE SHERMER BRAND

Postby remoat » Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:19 pm

AN OPEN POST TO "MR. MICHAEL":

SKEPTICISM
you have made quite a career as a "skeptic".. just a few questions: were you ever wrong on a topic as a skeptic? did you admit it publicly? is your reversal viewable on the internet? have you ever reversed your belief as a skeptic on a topic, but before you publicly disclosed your skepticism on that topic?

im not a skeptic.. i dont know if "e.t.s" are real or fake and i dont care, but i dont trivialize or discard the idea out-of-hand, i just want to know whats going on.. there are things i disbelieve; but, i guess i'm gullible, because im willing to change what i believe based on what i perceive to be strong and irrefutable evidence to the contrary.. so, to the point of my mail: you are skeptical as to visitations by extraterrestrials to the earth.. ill review the evidence.. you have seen the evidence, i have, too.. despite evidence in artwork dating back to cave drawings, illustrations in world-known paintings, biblical scripture, etc.., these are all merely exercises within the human imagination.. inconclusive(?)

since the discovery of the new world, there are references by many explorers and witnesses' accounts across dozens of nations in both hemispheres from the time of columbus to the 19th century.. again, inconclusive(?)

since wwii, the sightings (as well as the population) has increased manifold: personal sightings from laypersons; police and firemen; military, commercial and private pilots; airtraffic controllers have tracked "ufos" on radar numerous times from many locations and across many countries.. multiple military personnel have sighted, tracked and subsequently found traces of radioactivity, damaged foliage where noone had visited an area recently.. each member of the teams, moving concurrently, described identical phenomena.. many accounts are accompanied by still and moving film recordings, some are mutiple recordings of the same sighting from different locations.. i include "crop circles" in this array.. again, inconclusive(?)

then, there are the "abductions".. hundreds of books and several commercial films released to the public have drawn different recollections of various experiences, but remarkably, many details of the abductions are similar, extending across decades of the telling.. again, inconclusive, no doubt(?)

so, michael, (may i call you "michael"?), the bottom line for you is: they (observers) had nightmares resulting from spoiled food (or intoxication from alcohol or drugs), too much cross-ventilation in the bedroom, too little cross-ventilation; scary comic books/movies/stories around the campfire; children too young to hear scary tales from their elders; and there are the simple-minded folk (like me), who, having viewed hundreds of documentaries and read dozens of books on the subject, have simply collapsed under the massive literature (film and written) which purport to document in words and pictures that something is going on that is stimulating the memories of thousands, maybe millions of people since written history began.. again, more inconclusive(?)

some believe the military is witholding the truth.. maybe theyre right, project: bluebook, the air force unit assigned to investigate reports of ufos, has been openly discredited as an investigative unit, when it was revealed that the unit's primary function was to discredit the sightings, those who reported them and their recording equipment.. maybe, if you want to focus on something meriting skepticism, you should write about that unit.. another dubious report from the dept. of defense were the "stories" issued in the wake of the "roswell incident".. the combined military services issued so many reports over the next 50 years, each contradicting the last, the sequence of publications exemplified "slapstick".. so, those works are a skeptical array of topics to look into.. its like the old tv program "to tell the truth".. each agency has a story to tell that discredits a "flying saucer" tale.. problem is, the tales told by those stating the military's side are funnier than the tales told by the "witnesses"..

myself, i dont claim that any evidence justifies being proof of a ufo.. i just want to know what they are, and an explanation that passes the laugh test from both sides, is surely welcome.. i spoke with a physicist at a local college and asked him what would it take for ufo observations to be taken seriously by mainstream science and maybe even guys such as yourself.. he told me only one issue needed to be settled, and that would immediately upgrade ufos and all other issues relating to extraterrestrial phenomena into mainstream science: money.. if a group of philanthropists were to offer a university a large endowment for establishing an institute of ufology and other unexplained events, the school would accept the offer, start construction of a center for the study of ufology and advertise for professors, instructors, etc., who would be offered good salaries and automatic tenure.. the response from educators would be instantaneous.. everybody would want on the bandwagon.. so, there you are.. it isnt the stigma of observing odd objects in the sky, sightings of "little gray men", or strange-looking crop circles, it's all about the money.. it makes the world go 'round and legitimates fields of study formerly not considered "serious subjects" by anyone.. but if the word gets out that "ABC University" is opening a center for the study of such incidents, the line will stretch around the block with educators and administrators who yesterday wouldnt be caught reading such "drivel" or even discussing it with anyone, lest they be deemed as rather "strange" in their beliefs, would today be serious investigators and advocates of expanding fields of study in schools and private institutes..

you attempt to discredit the various experiences people have had with ufos going back several thousands of years.. but the thing is, you discredit, but do not offer serious alternatives.. cant prove a negative, right? so, michael, you sit atop a mountain of articles, true-believers (skeptics) and a wealth of info, but michael, you have no proof for your side, either!! isnt part of being a skeptic disproving those who adhere to a belief which you claim is false? isnt that part of your job? discrediting is one thing, but you must step across the line to conclusively demonstrate that not only are those of the "saucer ilk" wrong, you must submit that what actually was observed has a verifiable, supported "ordinary explanation", otherwise its just your opinion! anybody can claim to be a skeptic; it takes someone committed to proving the truth or falsity of a statement to be a practitioner of the scientific method..

michael, i see a lot of doubt ("skepticism") in your writings, i dont see much in alternative theories which have a fair chance to be proven true.. bottom line, you assert "thats not true!" but you offer no argument to prove what it is, actually.. you are leaving non-skeptics a loophole to continue believing in their own beliefs.. if you propose to persuade non-skeptics to "switch" to your side of the argument, you must give them a reason to do so.. i need more incentive to trust you than your assertion that all ufo stuff is just "swamp gas", the planet venus, fireworks, a squadron of air force fighters, etc.. you tell people what not to believe, but, then, what do you want us to believe?

THE SHERMER BRAND
whereas you have invested much time, engaged in a great deal of publicity and become a public figure in the area of evaluating dubious claims, it occurs to me that you are cemented in a position from which you may not be able to extricate yourself.. think about it..

what if irrefutable evidence were to appear as to extraterrestrials being proven as having landed on earth, or any of the other things you aspire to negate as the authentic human experience? what would the impact be? that would pretty well close your store, wouldnt it? whether its ufos, bigfoot, hitler still being alive.. i could be wrong, but if anything were to be proven truthful against your doctrine of "skepticism" i wonder how many readers / members you would retain as visitors to your website(s) or subscribers to your written publication(s).. taking any bets?

** A DIGRESSION; REMEMBER IN "2001", when the astronauts were told that their on-board hal9000 computer was "in error" predicting a fault in an on-board antenna? they sequestered themselves in a space pod and discussed what their next move should be.. they discussed that many on-board systems could not be trusted to their "hal".. they agreed that the higher-function processes could not be trusted to "hal" due to his suspect judgement calls.. im not disparaging "mr. michael's skills or abilities, but if proof of e.t's. close proximity to earth were shown, where else could the "skeptic'" empire be wrong?

here's a crazy idea.. i hope you can employ your skepticism and not merely prove me wrong, but also prove your explanation(s) as the only possible correct group..

i think maybe you are an extraterrestrial.. think about it.. the govt has never been honest with the public about ufos.. why? well if you're an e.t., you would have arrived on earth with or without help.. the govt could have taken you into custody and learned from you much technology from your home planet.. in exchange for teaching our "govt." what you know, they would ask of you two favors: do not reveal your e.t. heritage to anyone, ever.. what they would ask you to do, also, is to discredit all information about ufos, crop circles, etc., anywhere in the world.. not, a bad deal, huh? merely deny that which you know to be true, and the govt. will remain silent, period.. it would not only favor the govt's. take on the issue, it falls in line with your own predisposition of casting things which you deem "dubious" as not worth anyone's time, and you need not bother with proving the true nature of the subject.. to paraphrase the latin: skeptico ergo sum.. i am skeptical, therefore i am.. you could never deviate from this denier "model".. you have formed a covenant with uncle sam to never speak of your true identity and to always work to discredit ufo phenomena, trivialize discussions which attempt to treat the subject with seriousness and to sponsor publications which attack every report of extraterrestrial activity and shred the credibility entirely: the story, the storyteller, the witness(es) and challenge the recordings (pictures [still/video], and audio tapes).. in other words, you and your organization(s) would function much like the nra (national rifle association).. the motto on your website(s) and magazine(s) might read: the observations and evidence offered are anything except what they appear to be..

michael, i doubt you would stipulate to the landing of a flying saucer on the white house lawn.. you would find a loophole to crawl out of and declare the situation "an unconfirmed touchdown of an object, which, while not immediately familiar to myself, is surely no proof of an extraterrestrial craft".. yeah, that should work!

but, i could be wrong!

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Re: SKEPTICISM & THE SHERMER BRAND

Postby JO 753 » Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:02 pm

Glad I am the frst to say, I applaud your skeptisizm.
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Re: SKEPTICISM & THE SHERMER BRAND

Postby TJrandom » Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:59 pm

Personaly, I will accept that UFOs exist when they turn into FOs and are put on public display, for me to touch, photograph, and bounce tennis balls off of them - assuming of course that they are claimed to be physical objects.

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Re: SKEPTICISM & THE SHERMER BRAND

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:16 pm

Turn into {!#%@} Offs?
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Re: SKEPTICISM & THE SHERMER BRAND

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:17 pm

remoat wrote:AN OPEN POST TO "MR. MICHAEL":

Image
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

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What is a hypothesis? / "String Theory" / "UFOs"

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:22 am

remoat wrote:im not a skeptic.. i dont know if "e.t.s" are real or fake and i dont care,
In reality you are well know for promoting UFOs on the internet. You post on the UFO Case book forum.
http://ufocasebook.conforums.com/index. ... 1179473183
http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread. ... ING-THEORY
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread290322/pg1

Your main argument appears to be that there is no evidence for string theory and no evidence for UFO's, and therefore UFO's are as real as string theory.

This is complete nonsense. String theory is a hypothesis that is both predictive and meets observed data. No one claims String Theory is the "final answer". It is simply the one of the best working hypotheses today, and will probably be replaced when a better hypothesis is formulated and scientifically tested, in the future.

This is a skeptic forum. If you have hard scientific evidence of UFO's then present it. Scientists cannot make a hypothesis about observed data, that does not exist. If you have no evidence of UFO's to present us, then we don't have to make any hypothesis. It is that simple.

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Re: SKEPTICISM & THE SHERMER BRAND

Postby JO 753 » Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:24 am

I think the perspectiv you prezent iz useful, remoat. Dr. Shermerz skeptical methodz and opinionz can be thot uv az a brand.

Like a commercial product, Shermer skeptisizm haz identifiable featurez beyond the label.

Off the top uv my hed, I cant think uv any unique featurez, but I am not a regular reader. Seemz like all the prominent skeptics are offering very similar products: Everything that duznt orijinate from credentialed sientists iz scrutenized for any deviation from the 'established' doctrine and anything that haz been put into the official woo catagory iz automaticly dismissed without serious investigation. You'll get vertually the same opinionz and conclusionz on a givin claim from Shermer az you will from Jamez Randi, Richard Dawkins, etc. and many uv the memberz here.

They probably all hav a particular style, but thats like a paint job. Can you provide sum detailz that set it apart from other brandz?
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Re: SKEPTICISM & THE SHERMER BRAND

Postby Gord » Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:42 am

TJrandom wrote:Personaly, I will accept that UFOs exist when they turn into FOs and are put on public display, for me to touch, photograph, and bounce tennis balls off of them - assuming of course that they are claimed to be physical objects.

If you identify them, they're not UFOs anymore.

Of course UFOs exist, I see them all the time. They're probably birds, but I don't shoot them down to examine them, so I can't be sure.
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Re: SKEPTICISM & THE SHERMER BRAND

Postby TJrandom » Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:45 am

Gord wrote:
TJrandom wrote:Personaly, I will accept that UFOs exist when they turn into FOs and are put on public display, for me to touch, photograph, and bounce tennis balls off of them - assuming of course that they are claimed to be physical objects.

If you identify them, they're not UFOs anymore.

Of course UFOs exist, I see them all the time. They're probably birds, but I don't shoot them down to examine them, so I can't be sure.


Yes - that is exactly what I meant. UFOs becoming just FOs (Foreign Objects, or whatever name they take on once identified.)

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Re: SKEPTICISM & THE SHERMER BRAND

Postby Gord » Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:48 am

TJrandom wrote:
Gord wrote:
TJrandom wrote:Personaly, I will accept that UFOs exist when they turn into FOs and are put on public display, for me to touch, photograph, and bounce tennis balls off of them - assuming of course that they are claimed to be physical objects.

If you identify them, they're not UFOs anymore.

Of course UFOs exist, I see them all the time. They're probably birds, but I don't shoot them down to examine them, so I can't be sure.

Yes - that is exactly what I meant. UFOs becoming just FOs (Foreign Objects, or whatever name they take on once identified.)

And then they don't exist anymore!
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Quote Michael Shermer / Don't make it up.

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:53 am

I haven't got much hope for our new member. "Remoat" is how he spells "remote" as in "remote viewing". He can't spell Michael Shermer's name, which suggests he has never read Michael Shermer's books, that explain Mr Shermer's position. Instead he is going to make up Michael Shermer's and make "strawman" arguments.

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Re: SKEPTICISM & THE SHERMER BRAND

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:14 am

Matt: how do you know/find out the background of all the nuts that post here?

I was attracted to the post at first sentence. To me it is very interesting how/when people admit they are wrong. So many otherwise intelligent people refuse to do that.

Know what I mean?

PS--I stopped reading bout the third sentence in. Drivel is drivel.
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Re: SKEPTICISM & THE SHERMER BRAND

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:23 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Matt: how do you know/find out the background of all the nuts that post here?
I thought you knew? I use SIGINT to spy on dangerous cults for the KGB.

Kind regards, Matthew "George" Ellard

(St George is the patron saint of Moscow and the CIA still haven't worked out, that a member of this forum, runs the NSA, on behalf of Moscow)

Ellard has been the NSA’s inspector general since 2007. In this capacity he has not spoken in a public forum before so that made what he said additionally significant. Had Snowden made the decision to report his concerns through approved NSA channels it would have been through Ellard’s office.
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Re: SKEPTICISM & THE SHERMER BRAND

Postby JO 753 » Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:44 am

TJrandom wrote:Yes - that is exactly what I meant. UFOs becoming just FOs (Foreign Objects, or whatever name they take on once identified.)


FFO - Fied Flying Objects
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Re: SKEPTICISM & THE SHERMER BRAND

Postby TJrandom » Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:49 pm

FFFO - Fried Flying Foreign Objects

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Re: SKEPTICISM & THE SHERMER BRAND

Postby Monster » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:03 pm

remoat wrote:...i just want to know whats going on...

I've heard that from UFO believers before. You don't actually want to understand what's going on. You want an authority figure to confirm what you already believe. What's going on is this: it's very probable that no aliens have visited Earth.

I noticed that conspiracy theorists like to use the word "admit". So, I'll put it like this. I admit that it's probable that no aliens have visited Earth.
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Re: SKEPTICISM & THE SHERMER BRAND

Postby TJrandom » Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:03 pm

Sooo is remoat just a drive-by? I was sort ‘a hopeful that he might direct me to that physical evidence. I mean, with aliens having visited earth for eons, and conducting all of those experiments on people, animals, the weather, etc., - surely that would have discarded their garbage, crashed a few hundred times, or even opened their own museum.


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Re: SKEPTICISM & THE SHERMER BRAND

Postby Poodle » Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:38 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Matt: how do you know/find out the background of all the nuts that post here? .


I thought you knew. Matthew IS all the nuts who post here. You should see him in his 'gorgeous' persona - a work of art - and as 'freebill' he is stupendous.

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Re: SKEPTICISM & THE SHERMER BRAND

Postby TJrandom » Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:03 am


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Re: SKEPTICISM & THE SHERMER BRAND

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:35 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Matt: how do you know/find out the background of all the nuts that post here? .

Poodle wrote: I thought you knew. Matthew IS all the nuts who post here. You should see him in his 'gorgeous' persona - a work of art - and as 'freebill' he is stupendous.
That's nothing. In 2006 I was every contestant in the Miss Universe pageant. The hard bit to pull off, was the bikini line up near the end of the show.

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Re: SKEPTICISM & THE SHERMER BRAND

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:34 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:That's nothing[/i]. In 2006 I was every contestant in the Miss Universe pageant. The hard bit to pull off, was the bikini line up near the end of the show. [/color]

Thats relatively easy for a lizard Alien: Multiple Clones in Makeup that you murder after the show. Damn those Aliens!! ((Love those Clones.))
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