Aluminum and Autism

A skeptical look at medical practices
Tom Palven
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Aluminum and Autism

Post by Tom Palven » Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:53 am

Any real connection between aluminum, vaccinations, and autism, or is this a hoax?
https://www.collective-evolution.com/20 ... -aluminum/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

Matthew Ellard
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Re: Aluminum and Autism

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:12 am

Tom Palven wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:53 am
Any real connection between aluminum, vaccinations, and autism, or is this a hoax?
https://www.collective-evolution.com/20 ... -aluminum/
You are copying an anti-vaccination claim that has been reproduced on a anti-evolution website called "the Collective Evolution".

Tell me how many people were tested in the study.? ( It clearly says how many) Does this population offer any statistical confidence? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Did they test anyone without autism to determine if aluminium is common in all brains?


Other articles on this anti-evolution website include
"Trump briefed about UFOs according to Steven Greer"
"Many Insiders Believe Military Tribunals For Deep State Will Happen Any Time Now"
" Limo Owner Involved In Deadly NY Crash Worked For The FBI To Possibly Entrap Muslim Men"
"Is Saudi Journalist’s Disappearance & Allegations Of Murder A ‘White’ False Flag?"
"Insider Comes Out Of The Shadows To Reveal He Has Autopsied Over 3000 Extra Terrestrial Specimens"
"Elon Musk Plans On Sending People Past The Dark Side Of The Moon: Will They See Bases?"

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Why are you so stupid?
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landrew
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Re: Aluminum and Autism

Post by landrew » Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:16 pm

Maybe it's a good idea to discuss it and better inform ourselves.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

Tom Palven
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Re: Aluminum and Autism

Post by Tom Palven » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:50 pm

landrew wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:16 pm
Maybe it's a good idea to discuss it and better inform ourselves.

Yes, Matt is probably right in debunking it, but why all the merriment?

He must make a good Christmas Santa Claus. Ho, Ho, Ho, and all that. :mrgreen:
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

Matthew Ellard
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Re: Aluminum and Autism

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:08 pm

landrew wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:16 pm
Maybe it's a good idea to discuss it and better inform ourselves.
I did discuss it. The anti-vax editorial cited a non-science paper that only tested 5 (five) people with autism and noted that they had aluminium in their brains. They did not test any people without autism to determine if they also had aluminium in their brain. So let's apply some critical thinking
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1) Did the test have a control population?
No, There was no control population and therefore nothing to compare the five people tested against.

2) Does testing five people offer any statistical confidence on the population of people with autism?
No. to obtain a 95% confidence in a world autism population of 100 million we would need to test two sample size populations of 9600 people

3) Does the source of the claim have a good history of scientific accuracy? (Inherent risk)
No. The source of the claim also promotes UFOs conspiracies, Deep State conspiracies and so on.
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landrew
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Re: Aluminum and Autism

Post by landrew » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:56 pm

If someone has a bit of a history for examining strange evidence in their background, that doesn't disqualify them from critical thinking in my opinion Matthew. It tells me they are a better critical thinker than someone who filters out things without first examining them.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

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Cadmusteeth
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Re: Aluminum and Autism

Post by Cadmusteeth » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:20 am

Maybe not, but it would be good to look over the actual paper and see if it has what Matt says hasn’t.

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landrew
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Re: Aluminum and Autism

Post by landrew » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:26 am

Some studies say that aluminium gets into the brain, and other studies say it can't cross the blood-brain barrier. I need to study the subject a lot more before I offer an opinion.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

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Re: Aluminum and Autism

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:11 am

landrew wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:56 pm
If someone has a bit of a history for examining strange evidence in their background, that doesn't disqualify them from critical thinking in my opinion Matthew.
Good for you. Thankfully "Inherent Risk" is what I studied in uni.

Now do you think an antix vaccination editorial, on a UFO and Deep State, non-scientific website, who has a sample population of only 5 people when it required 9600 people and forgot to establish a control group should or should not be catagorised as belonging to an "inherent risk" source?
:D

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landrew
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Re: Aluminum and Autism

Post by landrew » Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:54 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:11 am
landrew wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:56 pm
If someone has a bit of a history for examining strange evidence in their background, that doesn't disqualify them from critical thinking in my opinion Matthew.
Good for you. Thankfully "Inherent Risk" is what I studied in uni.

Now do you think an antix vaccination editorial, on a UFO and Deep State, non-scientific website, who has a sample population of only 5 people when it required 9600 people and forgot to establish a control group should or should not be catagorised as belonging to an "inherent risk" source?
:D
I have a lot more respect for someone who has dealt with a subject fairly, instead of ridiculing it from a distance.
But that's just me. Each their own.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

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Re: Aluminum and Autism

Post by OlegTheBatty » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:14 pm

landrew wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:54 pm
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:11 am
landrew wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:56 pm
If someone has a bit of a history for examining strange evidence in their background, that doesn't disqualify them from critical thinking in my opinion Matthew.
Good for you. Thankfully "Inherent Risk" is what I studied in uni.

Now do you think an antix vaccination editorial, on a UFO and Deep State, non-scientific website, who has a sample population of only 5 people when it required 9600 people and forgot to establish a control group should or should not be catagorised as belonging to an "inherent risk" source?
:D
I have a lot more respect for someone who has dealt with a subject fairly, instead of ridiculing it from a distance.
But that's just me. Each their own.
And yet . . you criticize those who ridicule an idea from close up (ie, have actually examined the evidence) and glorify those who promote from a distance, like the folks in the op.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

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OlegTheBatty
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Re: Aluminum and Autism

Post by OlegTheBatty » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:19 pm

. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

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landrew
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Re: Aluminum and Autism

Post by landrew » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:50 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:14 pm
landrew wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:54 pm
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:11 am
landrew wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:56 pm
If someone has a bit of a history for examining strange evidence in their background, that doesn't disqualify them from critical thinking in my opinion Matthew.
Good for you. Thankfully "Inherent Risk" is what I studied in uni.

Now do you think an antix vaccination editorial, on a UFO and Deep State, non-scientific website, who has a sample population of only 5 people when it required 9600 people and forgot to establish a control group should or should not be catagorised as belonging to an "inherent risk" source?
:D
I have a lot more respect for someone who has dealt with a subject fairly, instead of ridiculing it from a distance.
But that's just me. Each their own.
And yet . . you criticize those who ridicule an idea from close up (ie, have actually examined the evidence) and glorify those who promote from a distance, like the folks in the op.
Well, I don't mean to ridicule, just criticize. Perhaps there's a better word for the difference between giving an idea a fair hearing, and dismissing it out of hand.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

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OlegTheBatty
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Re: Aluminum and Autism

Post by OlegTheBatty » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:14 pm

Maybe so, but you often dismiss out of hand the possibility that the person dismissing a claim is not doing so out of hand.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

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landrew
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Re: Aluminum and Autism

Post by landrew » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:17 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:14 pm
Maybe so, but you often dismiss out of hand the possibility that the person dismissing a claim is not doing so out of hand.
Not really. I just don't like shortcuts in weighing evidence.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

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Re: Aluminum and Autism

Post by OlegTheBatty » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:47 pm

People with Alzheimer's have a higher level of Al in their brains - often but not always, and infrequently enough that the role of Al is controversial. Do Alzheimer's patients have a higher rate of autism? Do autistic people have a higher rate of Alzheimer's?
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

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Re: Aluminum and Autism

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:31 pm

landrew wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:17 pm
Not really. I just don't like shortcuts in weighing evidence.
Complete crap. I checked the statistics of the claim and discovered it was nonsense. You didn't do anything. other than say "I look at the evidence" which you didn't. :lol:

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landrew
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Re: Aluminum and Autism

Post by landrew » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:35 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:31 pm
landrew wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:17 pm
Not really. I just don't like shortcuts in weighing evidence.
Complete crap. I checked the statistics of the claim and discovered it was nonsense. You didn't do anything. other than say "I look at the evidence" which you didn't. :lol:
I prefer to reserve my opinion until I have looked at the evidence, so that I can have a better opinion. You've got me on this one, as I haven't done that.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.