Debate Whether Autism Is Real

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Moon
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Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby Moon » Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:26 pm

Most mental diseases do not vary culturally, follow more defined characteristics, and very rarely ever result in high intelligence; schizophrenia(sizable inability to tell real from not-real), Prader-willie Syndrome(insatiable appetite, mild intellectual disability), Unertan Syndrome(mental retardation, underdeveloped cerrebellum, walks on 4's). Autism is the exception.

Autism apparently has anywhere from mental retardation to super genius. The same developmental disorder that links Einstein with someone with a mentally retarded individual is the same developmental disorder that doesn't exist.

I think a healthy dose of skepticism is required for everything in general, I'm honestly quite amused to see if I get blasted for making this thread.

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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby TheUltimateBlitz1 » Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:26 pm

Well autism is real its just a category for some genetic and mental disorders. Or do you mean the disorders are bs?

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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby Gord » Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:21 pm

Of course autism is "real", in that it is a diagnosis that seeks to describe a spectrum of mental difficulties that are seen to be linked together in some manner. Just because it covers a wider ground than other diagnoses does not make it "false".

For instance, broken bones can occur all over the body. Just because Jessie has a broken arm and Joseph has a broken leg, one should not conclude from the different symptoms in different areas of the body that the afflictions are unrelated in nature. There is no debate that broken bones are "real".

It's possible that the autism spectrum could be subdivided into different and characteristically unrelated disorders. This does not make the diagnosis of autism any less real; to continue the previous analogy, the differentiation of broken bones in different parts of the body into different disorders would not make the diagnosis of a broken bone less real (you wouldn't say, for example, that Jessie has a broken arm but not a broken bone).
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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby Moon » Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:52 am

I find the concept of "emotional intelligence" to be borderline psuedo science, some of it is that. Other times it's the MRI scans not being able to show enough differences in high-functioning autism brains.

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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby TheUltimateBlitz1 » Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:00 am

Moon wrote:I find the concept of "emotional intelligence" to be borderline psuedo science, some of it is that. Other times it's the MRI scans not being able to show enough differences in high-functioning autism brains.


Well some people are just more intelligent and don't have any mental problems.

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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby kennyc » Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:17 am

Of course it is real. Maybe you mean something else though???
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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby kennyc » Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:20 am

Moon wrote:I find the concept of "emotional intelligence" to be borderline psuedo science, some of it is that. Other times it's the MRI scans not being able to show enough differences in high-functioning autism brains.



What you don't think some people are better (or worse) at detecting, catetorgizing and communicating emotions than other people?

Do you think some people see or hear better or worse than others? Are some smarter/more intelligent than others?
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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby Moon » Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:59 am

kennyc wrote:
Moon wrote:I find the concept of "emotional intelligence" to be borderline psuedo science, some of it is that. Other times it's the MRI scans not being able to show enough differences in high-functioning autism brains.



What you don't think some people are better (or worse) at detecting, catetorgizing and communicating emotions than other people?

Do you think some people see or hear better or worse than others? Are some smarter/more intelligent than others?

http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Correl ... deficiency

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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby kennyc » Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:02 am

Moon wrote:
kennyc wrote:
Moon wrote:I find the concept of "emotional intelligence" to be borderline psuedo science, some of it is that. Other times it's the MRI scans not being able to show enough differences in high-functioning autism brains.



What you don't think some people are better (or worse) at detecting, catetorgizing and communicating emotions than other people?

Do you think some people see or hear better or worse than others? Are some smarter/more intelligent than others?

http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Correl ... deficiency

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Uh No. Your response and your link have nothing to do with my post.

Please answer my questions.
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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby Daedalus » Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:50 am

Ah, yet another new account with a cause.

Yes, lets boil down a complex debate about a spectrum of developmental disorders into prattling about concepts of emotional intelligence which are totally unrelated.

Nothing dishonest about that. :roll:

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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby TheUltimateBlitz1 » Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:57 am

Moon wrote:
kennyc wrote:
Moon wrote:I find the concept of "emotional intelligence" to be borderline psuedo science, some of it is that. Other times it's the MRI scans not being able to show enough differences in high-functioning autism brains.



What you don't think some people are better (or worse) at detecting, catetorgizing and communicating emotions than other people?

Do you think some people see or hear better or worse than others? Are some smarter/more intelligent than others?

http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Correl ... deficiency

Your princess is in another castle


Well this can be explained by difference in likes and dislikes. In our schools the majority of people with friends are the neutral/ popular crowd. I know that half of the very intelligent people in my school system didn't have that many friends or non at all. But there are also many honors students that were popular as well. Either way you would have to do numerous studies on it.

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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby Moon » Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:23 am

What you don't think some people are better (or worse) at detecting, catetorgizing and communicating emotions than other people?

Do you think some people see or hear better or worse than others? Are some smarter/more intelligent than others?

I think some people are better(or worse) at detecting, categorizing and communicating emotions than other people, and that these abilities are strongly associated with overall intelligence and typically not possessed by socially willing people.

Some are smarter/more intelligent than others, a person great at detecting, categorizing and communicating emotions is also socially introverted, disliked, ostracized. And now the link becomes relevant.

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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby Shen1986 » Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:08 am

Ohh boy another denier. My wife has autism and I can grantee you that its real. She has Asperger syndrome.

Here look at the evidence:

http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/content ... 7.full.pdf

Also look here:

We first compared the volume of AH between individuals with Asperger syndrome and controls and then investigated age-related differences. We compared differences in anatomy before, and after, correcting for whole brain size. There was no significant between group differences in whole brain volume. However, individuals with Asperger syndrome had a significantly larger raw bulk volume of total (P<0.01), right (P<0.01), and left amygdala (P<0.05); and when corrected for overall brain size, total (P<0.05), and right amygdala (P<0.01). There was a significant group difference in aging of left amygdala; controls, but not individuals with Asperger syndrome, had a significant age-related increase in volume (r = 0.486, P<0.01, and r = 0.007, P = 0.97, z = 1.995). There were no significant group differences in volume or age-related effects in hippocampus. Individuals with Asperger syndrome have significant differences from controls in bulk volume and aging of the amygdala.


Taken from: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21948742

Or here: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 2605001910

If you want to deny it. Then deny it but when you continue to deny it then not bother to post here because I will destroy you. I am here not talking only from science papers but also from experience...

Boy I have people who deny autism they are almost like holocaust deniers..
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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby Tom Palven » Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:15 am

The diagnosis for autism may be much too broad. Seems too popular, like the diagnosis for "bipolar disorder." Thomas Szasz (The Myth of Mental Illness) believed, as I understood his work, that there is no such thing as schizophrenia, that it is an unconscious effort to cope with stress. But he and others have pointed out that at least in some cases diagnosed as autism or sociopathy (psychopathy) that there is true illness, disease if you will, in that catscans, autopsies, etc have shown that certain parts of the subjects brains may be underdeveloped or actually missing. Some people missing parts of their brain lack the ability to empathize with others and could be diagnosed as sociopaths, (sorry, no links, just pulling this out of my, uh, ..memory) but go on to lead normal lives, while others may become serial killers, and still others go on to become successful politicians (Their ability to parrot info is not impaired by normal emotions). I'm not kidding or making this up. I researched this some years back when I wondered if George Bush I is a sociopath. I decided that he probably is, and now I also believe that he passed this on to at least one son, Dubya.
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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby Moon » Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:38 am

Shen1986 wrote:Ohh boy another denier. My wife has autism and I can grantee you that its real. She has Asperger syndrome.

Here look at the evidence:

http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/content ... 7.full.pdf

Also look here:

We first compared the volume of AH between individuals with Asperger syndrome and controls and then investigated age-related differences. We compared differences in anatomy before, and after, correcting for whole brain size. There was no significant between group differences in whole brain volume. However, individuals with Asperger syndrome had a significantly larger raw bulk volume of total (P<0.01), right (P<0.01), and left amygdala (P<0.05); and when corrected for overall brain size, total (P<0.05), and right amygdala (P<0.01). There was a significant group difference in aging of left amygdala; controls, but not individuals with Asperger syndrome, had a significant age-related increase in volume (r = 0.486, P<0.01, and r = 0.007, P = 0.97, z = 1.995). There were no significant group differences in volume or age-related effects in hippocampus. Individuals with Asperger syndrome have significant differences from controls in bulk volume and aging of the amygdala.


Taken from: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21948742

Or here: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 2605001910

If you want to deny it. Then deny it but when you continue to deny it then not bother to post here because I will destroy you. I am here not talking only from science papers but also from experience...

Boy I have people who deny autism they are almost like holocaust deniers..

However, individuals with Asperger syndrome had a significantly larger raw bulk volume of total

So people with Asperger's have larger brains? And as it just so happens they're more intelligent than the average person. Is this developmental disorder or the exact opposite? And it seems you're showing me fMRI evidence because normal MRI's are unable to show noticeable differences. In fact, 90% of those with Asperger's have normal brain scans.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22105143

And the research you showed me is incredibly skewed if mentally retarded patients are part of the testing, as any number of random abnormalities can result in it.

Mental retardation is commonly present in affected patients

And along with mental retardation automatically comes an inability to understand social cues. The "Asperger's"(now known as high-functioning autism) group and "autism" group are so dramatically different that I have no idea why they're on the same spectrum. I'd go on to call severe autism a differential diagnosis for mental retardation, and if this is the case then high-functioning autism is conceptually nonexistent.

Observational evidence:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5zjmKzc1Kc


And intelligent people have evolutionarily novel traits such as nocturnalism that make them vary much more than the average person, and commonly gets them diagnosed with autism in spite of superb mental health.
http://phys.org/news186236813.html


I assume you'll talk around the evidence I posted.

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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby kennyc » Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:39 am

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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby Shen1986 » Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:00 am

So people with Asperger's have larger brains? And as it just so happens they're more intelligent than the average person. Is this developmental disorder or the exact opposite?


Autism has a giant spectrum and not all people are not super intelligent like you put it. Some of them are unable to do normal things others are geniuses in one field.

And it seems you're showing me fMRI evidence because normal MRI's are unable to show noticeable differences. In fact, 90% of those with Asperger's have normal brain scans.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22105143


Your point here? I know about this study and? Its even on science daily:

Brain Imaging Alone Cannot Diagnose Autism:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 152002.htm

My point was to show you that they have a different brain nothing more or less.

They have a different brain if you like it or not:

Aug. 16, 2013 — Children with autism and average IQs consistently demonstrated superior math skills compared with nonautistic children in the same IQ range, according to a study by researchers at the Stanford University School of Medicine and Lucile Packard Children's Hospital.

"There appears to be a unique pattern of brain organization that underlies superior problem-solving abilities in children with autism," said Vinod Menon, PhD, professor of psychiatry and behavioral sciences and a member of the Child Health Research Institute at Packard Children's.


Taken from: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 130353.htm

And the research you showed me is incredibly skewed if mentally retarded patients are part of the testing, as any number of random abnormalities can result in it.


Where is mental retardation in the study?? I cannot find it..

And along with mental retardation automatically comes an inability to understand social cues. The "Asperger's"(now known as high-functioning autism) group and "autism" group are so dramatically different that I have no idea why they're on the same spectrum. I'd go on to call severe autism a differential diagnosis for mental retardation, and if this is the case then high-functioning autism is conceptually nonexistent.


Yeah Einstein, my wife or everyone who has Asperger or autism is a retard.. Ok I end here.. I will stop discussing this because this makes me sick.. We have a denier here..
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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby Pyrrho » Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:46 am

Everybody is stupid except him, etc. Tedious. Very tedious.
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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby Shen1986 » Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:50 am

Pyrrho wrote:Everybody is stupid except him, etc. Tedious. Very tedious.


Who do you mean by him if I can ask..
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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby Pyrrho » Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:54 am

Shen1986 wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:Everybody is stupid except him, etc. Tedious. Very tedious.


Who do you mean by him if I can ask..

Not you. The orbital body who rose over the trees with a chip on his shoulder.
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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby Moon » Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:56 am

They have a different brain if you like it or not:

Everybody has a different brain if you like it or not.


Aug. 16, 2013 — Children with autism and average IQs consistently demonstrated superior math skills compared with nonautistic children in the same IQ range, according to a study by researchers at the Stanford University School of Medicine and Lucile Packard Children's Hospital.

"There appears to be a unique pattern of brain organization that underlies superior problem-solving abilities in children with autism," said Vinod Menon, PhD, professor of psychiatry and behavioral sciences and a member of the Child Health Research Institute at Packard Children's.

Taken from: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 130353.htm

IQ is not empirical evidence, it is some evidence but brain scans hold priority(and why shouldn't they). Though I'd like to suggest that superior problem-solving skills is the biggest indicator of overall intelligence.


Where is mental retardation in the study?? I cannot find it..

The people tested were autistic, and 80% of those diagnosed with autism also have mental retardation.


Yeah Einstein, my wife or everyone who has Asperger or autism is a retard.. Ok I end here.. I will stop discussing this because this makes me sick.. We have a denier here..

I specifically said severe autism, but I love your way of putting the spin on opposing viewpoints. In fact it's so strong that in spite of the fact I said I was diagnosed, and that if I had mentioned all "autism" is retardation then that'd also mean I'm calling myself retarded, but you live in a preferred reality where any "real" "autistic" would never deny autism.

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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby Shen1986 » Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:11 pm

Everybody has a different brain if you like it or not.


I know this. However I mean it different. Oh boy this is getting stupid.. Can you get it what I was talking about?

IQ is not empirical evidence, it is some evidence but brain scans hold priority(and why shouldn't they). Though I'd like to suggest that superior problem-solving skills is the biggest indicator of overall intelligence.


However we cannot completely scan the human brain or even emulate it to begin with. If we were able to completely scan it and unlock all its secrets then we would not be discussing consciousness like what it is or how it arises to this day..

The people tested were autistic, and 80% of those diagnosed with autism also have mental retardation.


Which study?? Give the link..

I specifically said severe autism, but I love your way of putting the spin on opposing viewpoints. In fact it's so strong that in spite of the fact I said I was diagnosed, and that if I had mentioned all "autism" is retardation then that'd also mean I'm calling myself retarded, but you live in a preferred reality where any "real" "autistic" would never deny autism.


I dont pretend any reality and I am not twisting it. You came here to deny autism in the first place.. Now you divide autism into more types?? This is odd to me. Also if you are not happy with your diagnosis. Go to your doctor and tell him that he was wrong. You don't have to now deny autism as a whole.

Also to answer you another question I forgot:

And intelligent people have evolutionarily novel traits such as nocturnalism that make them vary much more than the average person, and commonly gets them diagnosed with autism in spite of superb mental health.


It is common that people are sometimes misdiagnosed. It happened even in my family from bipolar disorder which was the first diagnosis but in the end it was only depression.. So your point?
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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby Moon » Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:47 pm

It is common that people are sometimes misdiagnosed. It happened even in my family from bipolar disorder which was the first diagnosis but in the end it was only depression.. So your point?

According to professionals, autism traits means autism. They do not allow for the possibility of someone with zero autism traits to have autism or for someone with all the traits to not have it. If the world's most intellectual individuals are socially awkward, then they meet the criteria of autism traits. This would mean all highly intelligent people are developmentally disabled. Total dumb.

In real science, you can have all the symptoms of cancer but not have cancer while another may have none of the symptoms but actually have it.

Which study?? Give the link..

The extra period in your sentence shows your pretentiousness. And this link verifies that 80% of those with autism are mentally retarded.
http://asdcenter.org/faq

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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby Shen1986 » Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:26 pm

The extra period in your sentence shows your pretentiousness. And this link verifies that 80% of those with autism are mentally retarded. http://asdcenter.org/faq


I didn't post this study.. There I was asking. Yes my extra period in my sentences means something.. Is this a debate or conspiracy?? You begin to behave like a conspiracy theorist.

6. What is the Difference between Autism and Mental Retardation?
Autism occurs by itself or in conjunction with other disorders, such as mental retardation. Most people with autism (80%) also have mental retardation ranging from mild to severe. Individuals with only mental retardation show relatively even skill development, while persons with autism typically show uneven skill development with deficits in certain area (most frequently in their ability to communicate and relate to others) and distinct skills in other areas. Strengths are often seen in auditory memory or ability to do visual processing tasks such as puzzles or matching games.


Can you read?

Also read this:

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/do ... 1&type=pdf

Abstract
Previous work based on observations of home videotapes indicates that differences can be detected between infants
with autism spectrum disorder and infants with typical development at 1 year of age. The present study addresses
the question of whether autism can be distinguished from mental retardation by 1 year of age. Home videotapes of
first birthday parties from 20 infants later diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder, 14 infants later diagnosed with
mental retardation (without autism), and 20 typically developing infants were coded by blind raters with respect to
the frequencies of specific social and communicative behaviors and repetitive motor actions. Results indicated that
1-year-olds with autism spectrum disorder can be distinguished from 1-year-olds with typical development and those
with mental retardation. The infants with autism spectrum disorder looked at others and oriented to their names less
frequently than infants with mental retardation. The infants with autism spectrum disorder and those with mental
retardation used gestures and looked to objects held by others less frequently and engaged in repetitive motor
actions more frequently than typically developing infants. These results indicate that autism can be distinguished
from mental retardation and typical development by 1 year of age.


Mental retardation is something else and autism is something else...


According to professionals, autism traits means autism. They do not allow for the possibility of someone with zero autism traits to have autism or for someone with all the traits to not have it. If the world's most intellectual individuals are socially awkward, then they meet the criteria of autism traits. This would mean all highly intelligent people are developmentally disabled. Total dumb.


This is total foolishness you wrote. Then explain me why some people who have autism are diagnosed as schizophrenics most of the time. I you dont believe me go to a Asperger meeting. There will people at least here in Slovakia tell you that they all were first diagnosed as schizophrenics and later on it turned out to be Asperger. Also take a look on Endometriosis and Ovarian Cancer in women. It has almost the same:

Ovarian Cancer:

Signs and symptoms[edit source | editbeta]

Signs and symptoms of ovarian cancer are frequently absent early on and when they exist they may be subtle.[4] In most cases, the symptoms persist for several months before being recognized and diagnosed. Most typical symptoms include: bloating, abdominal or pelvic pain, difficulty eating, and possibly urinary symptoms.[5] If these symptoms recently started and occur more than 12 times per month the diagnosis should be considered.[5]

Other findings include an abdominal mass, back pain, constipation, tiredness and a range of other non-specific symptoms, as well as more specific symptoms such as abnormal vaginal bleeding or involuntary weight loss.[6] There can be a build-up of fluid (ascites) in the abdominal cavity.

Ovarian cancer is associated with age, family history of ovarian cancer (9.8-fold higher risk), anaemia (2.3-fold higher), abdominal pain (sevenfold higher), abdominal distension (23-fold higher), rectal bleeding (twofold higher), postmenopausal bleeding (6.6-fold higher), appetite loss (5.2-fold higher), and weight loss (twofold higher).[7]


Taken from:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovarian_cancer#Signs_and_symptoms

Endomteriosis:

Pelvic pain[edit source | editbeta]

A major symptom of endometriosis is recurring pelvic pain. The pain can range from mild to severe cramping that occurs on both sides of the pelvis, in the lower back and rectal area, and even down the legs. The amount of pain a woman feels correlates poorly with the extent or stage (1 through 4) of endometriosis, with some women having little or no pain despite having extensive endometriosis or endometriosis with scarring, while other women may have severe pain even though they have only a few small areas of endometriosis.[3] Symptoms of endometriosis-related pain may include:[4]
dysmenorrhea – painful, sometimes disabling cramps during menses; pain may get worse over time (progressive pain), also lower back pains linked to the pelvis
chronic pelvic pain – typically accompanied by lower back pain or abdominal pain
dyspareunia – painful sex
dysuria – urinary urgency, frequency, and sometimes painful voiding

Throbbing, gnawing, and dragging pain to the legs are reported more commonly by women with endometriosis.[5] Compared with women with superficial endometriosis, those with deep disease appear to be more likely to report shooting rectal pain and a sense of their insides being pulled down.[citation needed] Individual pain areas and pain intensity appears to be unrelated to the surgical diagnosis, and the area of pain unrelated to area of endometriosis.[citation needed]

Endometriosis lesions react to hormonal stimulation and may "bleed" at the time of menstruation. The blood accumulates locally, causes swelling, and triggers inflammatory responses with the activation of cytokines. This process may cause pain. Pain can also occur from adhesions (internal scar tissue) binding internal organs to each other, causing organ dislocation. Fallopian tubes, ovaries, the uterus, the bowels, and the bladder can be bound together in ways that are painful on a daily basis, not just during menstrual periods.[citation needed]

Also, endometriotic lesions can develop their own nerve supply, thereby creating a direct and two-way interaction between lesions and the central nervous system, potentially producing a variety of individual differences in pain that can, in some women, become independent of the disease itself.[3]
Fertility[edit source | editbeta]

Many women with infertility may have endometriosis. As endometriosis can lead to anatomical distortions and adhesions (the fibrous bands that form between tissues and organs following recovery from an injury), the causality may be easy to understand; however, the link between infertility and endometriosis remains enigmatic when the extent of endometriosis is limited.[6] It has been suggested that endometriotic lesions release factors which are detrimental to gametes or embryos, or, alternatively, endometriosis may more likely develop in women who fail to conceive for other reasons and thus be a secondary phenomenon; for this reason it is preferable to speak of endometriosis-associated infertility.[7]
Other[edit source | editbeta]

Other symptoms include constipation[5] and chronic fatigue.[8]

In addition to pain during menstruation, the pain of endometriosis can occur at other times of the month. There can be pain with ovulation, pain associated with adhesions, pain caused by inflammation in the pelvic cavity, pain during bowel movements and urination, during general bodily movement like exercise, pain from standing or walking, and pain with intercourse. But the most desperate pain is usually with menstruation and many women dread having their periods. Pain can also start a week before menses, during and even a week after menses, or it can be constant. There is no known cure for endometriosis.[9]


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endometrio ... d_symptoms

There are other sickness that are very similar. I am just using this as a example because one of my family members went through this and doctors were not sure if it was cancer of endometriosis but luckily it was endometriosis.
"Death Dies Hard." - Deathstars.

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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby Moon » Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:33 pm

In other words there's no situation in which a listed disorder is not real? Okay.

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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby Moon » Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:24 pm

In case you don't realize, my last post's "okay" was sarcasm.

I decided to read your post and have no idea what you're trying to say. Be more clear.

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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby Gord » Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:18 pm

Moon wrote:
They have a different brain if you like it or not:

Everybody has a different brain if you like it or not.

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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby scrmbldggs » Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:44 pm

Moon wrote:I specifically said severe autism, but I love your way of putting the spin on opposing viewpoints. In fact it's so strong that in spite of the fact I said I was diagnosed, and that if I had mentioned all "autism" is retardation then that'd also mean I'm calling myself retarded, but you live in a preferred reality where any "real" "autistic" would never deny autism.

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=21085&p=356278#p356250

I can't find any mention of Moon's diagnosis anywhere prior to that post.
.

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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby Moon » Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:58 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
Moon wrote:I specifically said severe autism, but I love your way of putting the spin on opposing viewpoints. In fact it's so strong that in spite of the fact I said I was diagnosed, and that if I had mentioned all "autism" is retardation then that'd also mean I'm calling myself retarded, but you live in a preferred reality where any "real" "autistic" would never deny autism.

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=21085&p=356278#p356250

I can't find any mention of Moon's diagnosis anywhere prior to that post.

Oh, I forgot to mention that. I was diagnosed twice.

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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby Daedalus » Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:07 pm

Moon wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:
Moon wrote:I specifically said severe autism, but I love your way of putting the spin on opposing viewpoints. In fact it's so strong that in spite of the fact I said I was diagnosed, and that if I had mentioned all "autism" is retardation then that'd also mean I'm calling myself retarded, but you live in a preferred reality where any "real" "autistic" would never deny autism.

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=21085&p=356278#p356250

I can't find any mention of Moon's diagnosis anywhere prior to that post.

Oh, I forgot to mention that. I was diagnosed twice.


Well, that clearly makes your case. :roll:
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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:56 am

[quote="Moon"]Most mental diseases do not vary culturally, follow more defined characteristics, and very rarely ever result in high intelligence; schizophrenia(sizable inability to tell real from not-real), Prader-willie Syndrome(insatiable appetite, mild intellectual disability), Unertan Syndrome(mental retardation, underdeveloped cerrebellum, walks on 4's). Autism is the exception.

Autism apparently has anywhere from mental retardation to super genius. The same developmental disorder that links Einstein with someone with a mentally retarded individual is the same developmental disorder that doesn't exist.

I think a healthy dose of skepticism is required for everything in general, I'm honestly quite amused to see if I get blasted for making this thread.[/quote

lots of obviously not perfect kids get that label . I could see asking is it an illness or is it just stupid . I am interested in it because I think I have some of the symptoms.
in my case id say it was more just born stupid , then an illness
for the real minority ; there will be no justice , there will be no peace .
makes sense 2me , so it has 2be wrong .

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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby Tom Palven » Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:07 am

psychiatry is a scam wrote:
Moon wrote:Most mental diseases do not vary culturally, follow more defined characteristics, and very rarely ever result in high intelligence; schizophrenia(sizable inability to tell real from not-real), Prader-willie Syndrome(insatiable appetite, mild intellectual disability), Unertan Syndrome(mental retardation, underdeveloped cerrebellum, walks on 4's). Autism is the exception.

Autism apparently has anywhere from mental retardation to super genius. The same developmental disorder that links Einstein with someone with a mentally retarded individual is the same developmental disorder that doesn't exist.

I think a healthy dose of skepticism is required for everything in general, I'm honestly quite amused to see if I get blasted for making this thread.[/quote

lots of obviously not perfect kids get that label . I could see asking is it an illness or is it just stupid . I am interested in it because I think I have some of the symptoms.
in my case id say it was more just born stupid , then an illness



Well. you can write in coherent sentences, which surely makes you smarter than average koalas, who probably can't spell Detroit, either. What kind of symptoms do you perceive?
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:59 pm

detriot - anyway to me autism is a general label for kids who are really quiet and not learning .
not watching their parents or anybody. and do poorly in school.
it is a polite word for stupid . high functioning is another polite fancy label .
I think I should fall into the autistic category , but shrinks never gave me that label ;
mainly I guess because my parents could not afford a shrinks help .
the more important thing - I feel is how to teach / raise / help these kinds of kids ?
I am guessing what jenny McCarthy was doing with her child may be a good example
of how to help these kinds of kids ?
for the real minority ; there will be no justice , there will be no peace .
makes sense 2me , so it has 2be wrong .

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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby Daedalus » Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:15 pm

Yet another reason to be glad that you're not in business of helping anyone until you help yourself.
"Propaganda is a monologue which seeks not a response, but an echo." (W.H. Auden)
"Given time and plenty of paper, philosophers can prove anything." (Robert Heinlein)
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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby Tom Palven » Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:47 pm

psychiatry is a scam wrote:detriot - anyway to me autism is a general label for kids who are really quiet and not learning .
not watching their parents or anybody. and do poorly in school.
it is a polite word for stupid . high functioning is another polite fancy label .
I think I should fall into the autistic category , but shrinks never gave me that label ;
mainly I guess because my parents could not afford a shrinks help .
the more important thing - I feel is how to teach / raise / help these kinds of kids ?
I am guessing what jenny McCarthy was doing with her child may be a good example
of how to help these kinds of kids ?


I'm wondering if you're correct, and "autistic" is often a euphemism for stupid. An ex-bro-in-law of mine had two normal kids and a little boy who looked normal, (no mongoloid features) but behaved as if he were "retarded," developmentally impaired or whatever, and was diagnosed as "autistic." From what I see above, that's true in 80% of the cases? Can they point to any damage or lack of development of a frontal lobe? And what about the supposedly other 20% of the cases that are supposedly of normal intelligence? What do you think your symptoms of autism are? I don't have a dog in this fight, no axe to grind, just curious. (And if you're Moon, I've missed you over at the other website.)
Last edited by Tom Palven on Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby OlegTheBatty » Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:59 pm

Tom-Palven wrote:
psychiatry is a scam wrote:detriot - anyway to me autism is a general label for kids who are really quiet and not learning .
not watching their parents or anybody. and do poorly in school.
it is a polite word for stupid . high functioning is another polite fancy label .
I think I should fall into the autistic category , but shrinks never gave me that label ;
mainly I guess because my parents could not afford a shrinks help .
the more important thing - I feel is how to teach / raise / help these kinds of kids ?
I am guessing what jenny McCarthy was doing with her child may be a good example
of how to help these kinds of kids ?


I'm wondering if you're correct, and "autistic" is often a euphemism for stupid. An ex-bro-in-law of mine had two normal kids and a little boy who looked normal, (no mongoloid features) but behaved as if he was "retarded," developmentally impaired or whatever, and was diagnosed as "autistic." From what I see above, that's true in 80% of the cases? Can they point to any damage or lack of development of a frontal lobe? And what about the supposedly other 20% of the cases that are supposedly of normal intelligence? What do you think your symptoms of autism are? I don't have a dog in this fight, no axe to grind, just curious. (And if you're Moon, I've missed you over at the other website.)

Just because there is no morphology associated with ASD does not mean it is not a real spectrum of disorders.
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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby Daedalus » Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:34 pm

Tom-Palven wrote:
psychiatry is a scam wrote:detriot - anyway to me autism is a general label for kids who are really quiet and not learning .
not watching their parents or anybody. and do poorly in school.
it is a polite word for stupid . high functioning is another polite fancy label .
I think I should fall into the autistic category , but shrinks never gave me that label ;
mainly I guess because my parents could not afford a shrinks help .
the more important thing - I feel is how to teach / raise / help these kinds of kids ?
I am guessing what jenny McCarthy was doing with her child may be a good example
of how to help these kinds of kids ?


I'm wondering if you're correct, and "autistic" is often a euphemism for stupid. An ex-bro-in-law of mine had two normal kids and a little boy who looked normal, (no mongoloid features) but behaved as if he was "retarded," developmentally impaired or whatever, and was diagnosed as "autistic." From what I see above, that's true in 80% of the cases? Can they point to any damage or lack of development of a frontal lobe? And what about the supposedly other 20% of the cases that are supposedly of normal intelligence? What do you think your symptoms of autism are? I don't have a dog in this fight, no axe to grind, just curious. (And if you're Moon, I've missed you over at the other website.)


The only people who are likely to think along those lines are people like you, who don't have any clinical or practical experience, and losers like PIAS who just has an agenda.

Do yourself a favor and learn the first thing about ASDs.
"Propaganda is a monologue which seeks not a response, but an echo." (W.H. Auden)
"Given time and plenty of paper, philosophers can prove anything." (Robert Heinlein)
"The map is not the territory." (Alfred Korzybski)
“You’re in the desert, you see a tortoise lying on its back, struggling, and you’re not helping — why is that?" (Bladerunner)

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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby Tom Palven » Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:51 pm

Daedalus wrote:
Tom-Palven wrote:
psychiatry is a scam wrote:detriot - anyway to me autism is a general label for kids who are really quiet and not learning .
not watching their parents or anybody. and do poorly in school.
it is a polite word for stupid . high functioning is another polite fancy label .
I think I should fall into the autistic category , but shrinks never gave me that label ;
mainly I guess because my parents could not afford a shrinks help .
the more important thing - I feel is how to teach / raise / help these kinds of kids ?
I am guessing what jenny McCarthy was doing with her child may be a good example
of how to help these kinds of kids ?


I'm wondering if you're correct, and "autistic" is often a euphemism for stupid. An ex-bro-in-law of mine had two normal kids and a little boy who looked normal, (no mongoloid features) but behaved as if he was "retarded," developmentally impaired or whatever, and was diagnosed as "autistic." From what I see above, that's true in 80% of the cases? Can they point to any damage or lack of development of a frontal lobe? And what about the supposedly other 20% of the cases that are supposedly of normal intelligence? What do you think your symptoms of autism are? I don't have a dog in this fight, no axe to grind, just curious. (And if you're Moon, I've missed you over at the other website.)


The only people who are likely to think along those lines are people like you, who don't have any clinical or practical experience, and losers like PIAS who just has an agenda.

Do yourself a favor and learn the first thing about ASDs.


Think along what lines? This is the way my brain works. Maybe I have ASD or something.

Happy Thanksgiving Yanks, BTW, and the rest of y'all have a good week end.
Last edited by Tom Palven on Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby Daedalus » Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:56 pm

Tom-Palven wrote:
Daedalus wrote:
Tom-Palven wrote:
psychiatry is a scam wrote:detriot - anyway to me autism is a general label for kids who are really quiet and not learning .
not watching their parents or anybody. and do poorly in school.
it is a polite word for stupid . high functioning is another polite fancy label .
I think I should fall into the autistic category , but shrinks never gave me that label ;
mainly I guess because my parents could not afford a shrinks help .
the more important thing - I feel is how to teach / raise / help these kinds of kids ?
I am guessing what jenny McCarthy was doing with her child may be a good example
of how to help these kinds of kids ?


I'm wondering if you're correct, and "autistic" is often a euphemism for stupid. An ex-bro-in-law of mine had two normal kids and a little boy who looked normal, (no mongoloid features) but behaved as if he was "retarded," developmentally impaired or whatever, and was diagnosed as "autistic." From what I see above, that's true in 80% of the cases? Can they point to any damage or lack of development of a frontal lobe? And what about the supposedly other 20% of the cases that are supposedly of normal intelligence? What do you think your symptoms of autism are? I don't have a dog in this fight, no axe to grind, just curious. (And if you're Moon, I've missed you over at the other website.)


The only people who are likely to think along those lines are people like you, who don't have any clinical or practical experience, and losers like PIAS who just has an agenda.

Do yourself a favor and learn the first thing about ASDs.


Think along what lines? This is the way my brain works. Maybe I have ASD or something.


Thinking that you can substitute opinion based on pure ignorance for a real opinion based on something.

Even a cursory examination of what ASD's are compared to simple retardation would have shown you just how silly your post was, but why bother learning when you can express yourself? Right?

:roll:
"Propaganda is a monologue which seeks not a response, but an echo." (W.H. Auden)
"Given time and plenty of paper, philosophers can prove anything." (Robert Heinlein)
"The map is not the territory." (Alfred Korzybski)
“You’re in the desert, you see a tortoise lying on its back, struggling, and you’re not helping — why is that?" (Bladerunner)

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Re: Debate Whether Autism Is Real

Postby Tom Palven » Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:09 am

What's wrong with a half-assed opinion based on extremely limited experience? Jeezis, I'm doing the best that I can!
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire


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