psychiatry is a scam run by for revenge

A skeptical look at medical practices
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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby OlegTheBatty » Tue May 20, 2014 3:43 pm

I'm not sure if psychiatry is a scam per se, but 'physician, cure thyself' sure comes to mind . . .

Part 1.

Part 2.
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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby Poodle » Tue May 20, 2014 10:06 pm

Since posting big on the Entrenit, I find I can spill butter.

It helps if its read two.

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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue May 20, 2014 11:34 pm

psychiatry is a scam wrote:this is a typical example of what happens when someone tries to argue for equality with a shrink - insults and bullying .
You can't have equality with a "shrink". A psychiatrist is a qualified medical practitioner who has studied further, specialised and been accepted into the college.

psychiatry is a scam wrote: (ignore) is a good way to avoid being distracted by comments that are an attack on a person and have nothing to do with the topic . comments meant mainly to injure.
You are posting unsupported insults against psychiatrists which are intended to injure. You can't see your own hypocrisy because you are "nuts".

You have absolutely no plan to get better and simply want to complain complain complain against psychiatrists. That's not a sensible plan is it? Why don't you follow the professional advice you have been given for six months and then reassess?

If you feel better.....You win!

If you don't feel better....... You haven't lost anything!

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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby digress » Fri May 30, 2014 9:25 pm

psychiatry is a scam wrote:the religious cult of psychiatry must be exposed


I could see how a medical practice of mental diagnoses could be considered a religious organization if you use it in the following context; "Psychiatry is a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects." For example, a group of knowledgeable characters gathering together to write and publish the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders and saying this document is a fundamental belief in our ability to operate and all of psychiatry must abide by what it has to say to first be credible.

However, this particular example falls short because the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders has been renewed since it's original publishing and so is not a fundamental belief, but rather a tool for practice. For example, it was originally thought Homosexuality was a mental disorder, added the the Manual, and later removed (from what I understand to be the case).

But another problem exists in your linguistic agenda. A cult is a community that worships a thing, person or ideology.

Are you able to point out both a fundamental belief and object of worship inside the field of psychiatry? If not, it is by no means a religious cult and leads me to believe that you've either not critiqued yourself enough on the subject or have your own agenda I'm unable to speculate at the moment. Until then I'd say your abuse of language reveals a tempestuous mind at work and discredits your motive to educate.

On a different note. I've no idea if psychiatry is a scam, which it may be. I personally fail to see how psychiatry isn't just philosophers basing their speculations off things like neuroimaging or institutionalized authority. It's one of the reasons why I avoided college studies in psychology because it appears to be just philosophy without neuroscience.
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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby Scott Mayers » Sat May 31, 2014 1:01 am

A-number,

...and whoever thinks that the person who inquired here is lacking enough self-directed seeking, while this may seem like good advise, I can assure you that most people already do this naturally. It is not due to any lack of self-seeking such people have problems but rather such attitudes of those like yourselves who arrogantly presume that those who have problems are there own to deal with without external aids. I have no doubt that such people are surrounded mostly by people of your ilk who abandon their roles in trying to help others without expecting them to give you the conditional investment in your own ideas to absolve their problems. To me this is more of a scam than the overt assistance offered by the profession of psychiatry.

digress,

You said,
I personally fail to see how psychiatry isn't just philosophers basing their speculations off things like neuroimaging or institutionalized authority. It's one of the reasons why I avoided college studies in psychology because it appears to be just philosophy without neuroscience.

Psychiatry is a medical profession first and foremost, not a direct social one. Psychology is a supportive part of their degree and in which neuroscience is the biggest part of it.
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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby AKALuke » Sat May 31, 2014 1:39 am

A-number wrote:By the Way Guys!!! the guy who was responsible for the US latest massacre, the Santa Barbara one? was shown to have been put on Xanax for last 6 months!!!

Once more, Congratulations Big Pharma and Clan, anything to screw up people's brains, or otherwise make 'em just go Nuts, outta the blue :rotfl:.


Hardly out of the blue if he's been prescribed Xanax!

Man has infected toe.
Man goes on cefazolin.
Toe gets worse.
Therefor cefazolin made toe worse.

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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby digress » Sat May 31, 2014 7:56 pm

Scott Mayers wrote:digress,

You said,
I personally fail to see how psychiatry isn't just philosophers basing their speculations off things like neuroimaging or institutionalized authority. It's one of the reasons why I avoided college studies in psychology because it appears to be just philosophy without neuroscience.

Psychiatry is a medical profession first and foremost, not a direct social one. Psychology is a supportive part of their degree and in which neuroscience is the biggest part of it.


Ok cool. I still can't claim to anymore than what I wrote about the medical practices of psychiatry, but when I was attending school neuroscience wasn't something ever brought up inside the psychology room. I had to discover that field on my own. It seems some progress has been made lol
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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby Scott Mayers » Sat May 31, 2014 10:39 pm

A-number wrote:
Scott Mayers wrote:A-number,

I lacked to address your previous inquiries on this thread, out of dishonesty mainly among other things, them also not so flattering..


Yeah, I know, so you need to go back and address them. One point at time before you venture in rambling more non-sense.

Where the did you get me quoting this? Link to post please as this as this doesn't contextually map to anything I would say!
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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby Scott Mayers » Sat May 31, 2014 10:46 pm

digress wrote:
Scott Mayers wrote:digress,

You said,
I personally fail to see how psychiatry isn't just philosophers basing their speculations off things like neuroimaging or institutionalized authority. It's one of the reasons why I avoided college studies in psychology because it appears to be just philosophy without neuroscience.

Psychiatry is a medical profession first and foremost, not a direct social one. Psychology is a supportive part of their degree and in which neuroscience is the biggest part of it.


Ok cool. I still can't claim to anymore than what I wrote about the medical practices of psychiatry, but when I was attending school neuroscience wasn't something ever brought up inside the psychology room. I had to discover that field on my own. It seems some progress has been made lol

Neuroscience doesn't have to be brought up in psychology. Psychology is not psychiatry.
From the Wikipedia entry, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychiatry, this is the described scope of psychiatry:
Scope of practice

Though the medical specialty of psychiatry utilizes research in the field of neuroscience, psychology, medicine, biology, biochemistry, and pharmacology, it has generally been considered a middle ground between neurology and psychology.
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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby digress » Sat May 31, 2014 11:27 pm

Scott Mayers wrote:
digress wrote:
Scott Mayers wrote:digress,

You said,
I personally fail to see how psychiatry isn't just philosophers basing their speculations off things like neuroimaging or institutionalized authority. It's one of the reasons why I avoided college studies in psychology because it appears to be just philosophy without neuroscience.

Psychiatry is a medical profession first and foremost, not a direct social one. Psychology is a supportive part of their degree and in which neuroscience is the biggest part of it.


Ok cool. I still can't claim to anymore than what I wrote about the medical practices of psychiatry, but when I was attending school neuroscience wasn't something ever brought up inside the psychology room. I had to discover that field on my own. It seems some progress has been made lol

Neuroscience doesn't have to be brought up in psychology. Psychology is not psychiatry.
From the Wikipedia entry, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychiatry, this is the described scope of psychiatry:
Scope of practice

Though the medical specialty of psychiatry utilizes research in the field of neuroscience, psychology, medicine, biology, biochemistry, and pharmacology, it has generally been considered a middle ground between neurology and psychology.


Yes I know. I was using it as an analogy to try and both show how I saw the medical practice of psychiatry as being a possible scam and also how psychology could be in the same boat. I may have been too bold.

I uphold that psychology is philosophy without the neuroscience And thank you for telling me neurology now exists in it's study.
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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby Scott Mayers » Sat May 31, 2014 11:51 pm

A-number wrote:
Scott Mayers wrote:
A-number wrote:
Scott Mayers wrote:A-number,

I lacked to address your previous inquiries on this thread, out of dishonesty mainly among other things, them also not so flattering..


Yeah, I know, so you need to go back and address them. One point at time before you venture in rambling more non-sense.

Where the did you get me quoting this? Link to post please as this as this doesn't contextually map to anything I would say!


Yeah and I am the queen of Israel!!! go back to the previous posts I addressed to you and answer them then. Otherwise I don't have time to act like a child but perhaps you do.

I did not quote what you are claiming I did here even in part. You're being seriously deceptive to be doing so and would obviously appreciate that you didn't. But I have no doubt that you are doing this purposely to feign me as acting contrary to who I am or what I stand for. If you do this again, I will be making a formal complaint as this amounts to a form of volatile and intentional abuse on your part. Thank you.
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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby Scott Mayers » Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:39 am

Hi digress, I know we are on the same side of the issue here and find your arguments good. I was just a little surprised that even while you took some courses in psychology that you didn't already didn't appear to know the distinction. Neuroscience has always been at the root of psychiatry since it focuses on one's biology with respect to the brain more than anything else. Without neuroscience in a psychiatrist's education, this degree reverts back to psychology alone.

I think the confusion by the emphasis on various media (especially entertainment) to demonstrate psychiatrists to doing psychotherapy, something they can optionally do, falsely stereotypes this as what they do most. In fact, psychotherapy is actually mostly something that psychologists do. I can't speak for the laws in the U.S., but here in Canada and in most countries, psychologists is akin to what you referred to as more philosophically bent as they rely on communication tactics to alter people's behaviors. On the other hand, they are not allowed to prescribe or use medication in their treatments whatsoever as they are not medical doctors. Because of the demand for psychiatrist's here in Canada, they are limited to be less able to actually practice psychotherapy and limit themselves to short visits as any other doctors. It's too bad though because while they are covered by most governments necessarily, psychologists and psychotherapy by both professions are not.

The problem with psychologists is that they deal with diverse educational backgrounds and even a sub-variant of people considered, 'counselors' has arisen, who don't have to have even a full degree in psychology to practice. Their training and practices here make them mostly New Age cons of one variety or another and are indistinguishable from religion. I tried to check out a few here before only to discover how odd they really are. So I get why psychology or sub-variant forms of them are not covered nor should be.They can't prescribe drugs. So their tendencies when they do prescribe anything are alternative 'medicines' and methods. The majority of them here in my city are some variant of (W)holistic practitioners. No science needed. This doesn't mean that there aren't psychologists out there from credible University education that aren't scientifically credible. But these are far and few between and are in such high demand that unless you can afford to see one, it is unlikely to represent the majority of the bad ones out there.

Notice how groups like Scientology attacks psychiatry due to their disdain for what is called, hypnotherapy. In reality, most psychiatrists don't opt for this and when and where they do, they use medicine to aid in such practices with some effect. However, psychotherapists who only have a psychology degree are often the ones who use such methods in unusual ways and are NOT allowed to use legal medication. But the Scientologists focus on attacking the nature of psychiatry in lieu of those who do psychologically because to do so would point to the fact that their own methods are logically a form of private psychological hypnotism not in the mainstream.

One last point I'd like to make is that for those psychologists who are well educated in appropriate Universities, someone like Dr Phil McGraw are exceptionally good even contrary to some skeptics. The difference can be deduced by how they actually carry through with their practices to favor science even contrary to their own personal beliefs. For instance, most know that Dr Phil is religious. But aside from personal political or vocal recommendations his forwarded aids in helping others don't require you to have to agree with those views to be helpful. That is, he can help anyone regardless of their particular favor towards those things that he favors politically or religiously.
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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby digress » Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:56 am

Scott Mayers wrote:...

The problem with psychologists is that they deal with diverse educational backgrounds and even a sub-variant of people considered, 'counselors' has arisen, who don't have to have even a full degree in psychology to practice. Their training and practices here make them mostly New Age cons of one variety or another and are indistinguishable from religion. I tried to check out a few here before only to discover how odd they really are. So I get why psychology or sub-variant forms of them are not covered nor should be.They can't prescribe drugs. So their tendencies when they do prescribe anything are alternative 'medicines' and methods. The majority of them here in my city are some variant of (W)holistic practitioners. No science needed. This doesn't mean that there aren't psychologists out there from credible University education that aren't scientifically credible. But these are far and few between and are in such high demand that unless you can afford to see one, it is unlikely to represent the majority of the bad ones out there.

...

One last point I'd like to make is that for those psychologists who are well educated in appropriate Universities, someone like Dr Phil McGraw are exceptionally good even contrary to some skeptics. The difference can be deduced by how they actually carry through with their practices to favor science even contrary to their own personal beliefs. For instance, most know that Dr Phil is religious. But aside from personal political or vocal recommendations his forwarded aids in helping others don't require you to have to agree with those views to be helpful. That is, he can help anyone regardless of their particular favor towards those things that he favors politically or religiously.


I understand. It worries me when you say things like psychologists are dealing with diverse educational backgrounds yet some don't have the full degree themselves. What you imply is a link between the credibility of a good, or strong, psychologist being rooted in completing higher levels of an educational curriculum. You could still have a completely good, maybe revolutionary, psychologist who is degree less and studies or ponders about this behavior of fellow human beings in private. And you'd still be unable to properly measure their potential vs. a poor psychologist with a full degree if all you have to say is that the degree shows something where no degree does not. The proof rests in the individual practice and the success of their ability to provide insight. So psychology as a whole is left exactly where it started, in the philosophy classroom. I feel neuroscience is the proper term for psychology now. Until we can properly study patterns of thought to increase probability of prediction for a behavioral change based on the study of brain activity there is no actual science to it. Making it the alchemy of mental diagnosis.

However, I still know so little about actual psychiatry or the application of drugs, but it seems to me that the diagnosis of the drug is a philosophical claim. The drug itself may have a very specific purpose or result when administered, but it still rests at the mercy of another human being saying, AHA! My idea knows what will fix your "mental" illness. It's deep within this which lie the scam, or potential for scam really.

I'm double worried about your reference to popular TV personality Dr. Phil. I'm not familiar with the mans work. You say his patients dont need to agree with his views to be helpful. That a better understanding in science and his ability to articulate this connection is help enough. If that really is his aim I need to ask then in what sense is he a psychologist? I'd also suggest a religious man helping others turn away from their religious practice reveals the man has no conviction and based entirely on your remarks, I'd say is evident to a scam artist.
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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby Scott Mayers » Sun Jun 01, 2014 5:51 am

Interesting introspection, Digress[I'm capitalizing your name, "digress", so as to avoid anyone misquoting me for something I may be not be saying.] I think that with reference to qualifications in any social study, as much science and technology we have gained in understanding the 'hard' sciences of things like physics, chemistry, and biology, the extension to social professions are not able to conclusively prove things perfectly in many areas yet. So, in this respect, it is still not so divorced from the other areas of philosophy as is these hard sciences. But that doesn't make them somehow more trivial. Philosophy is NOT trivial and is something we've been discussing here in other posts. So I'll leave this alone except to say that such philosophy is not as equivalent to the more speculative social areas like religion.

It is therefore unfortunate that we find more conformity in these fields. And no qualification even in the best of educational backgrounds can guarantee that one becomes good at it or correct in their ideas. But that doesn't mean that we should abandon psychology or those areas of psychiatry which remain less certain until we find better certainty. They serve good practical functions just as even religion can help in some ways for people in some circumstances. Medicine is also still a function of trial and error. Also, what can be most effective to one person can be seriously damaging to another. I have a personal natural chemical affiliation with things like caffeine and nicotine but none for some that are traditionally more potent on most of the population, like cocaine, opiates, or alcohol.

For psychology and psychology, what matters is what works. There are certain things which work on most of the people most of the time. But always for some, we have to address social problem solving more uniquely dependent on ones particular biology or things like personality or environments.

As for Dr Phil, he appropriately did not renew his license to practice for the sake of doing a popular day time show. This allows him license to both bring in his own biases apart from his training as well as to legally segregate responsibility upon viewers to take these particular opinions that digress from his official training. It places more onus on the viewers to be discretionary upon their trust in television personalities. For Phil McGraw, as a person, he remains for the most part consistent unlike those like Dr Oz who jump on any and every new idea. Dr Oz is more of a showman personality wise and his show acts like an infomercial to promote new products or services related to his advice. So, yes, shows like these open themselves to be potentially abusive in the sense of a scam. It doesn't take away their value if people choose to make good use of them for self-improvement, however.
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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby digress » Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:54 am

Scott Mayers wrote:Digress[I'm capitalizing your name, "digress", so as to avoid anyone misquoting me for something I may be not be saying.]

:lol:
I dont disagree with anything you stated here.. so TY

Scott Mayers wrote: As for Dr Phil, he appropriately did not renew his license to practice for the sake of doing a popular day time show. This allows him license to both bring in his own biases apart from his training as well as to legally segregate responsibility upon viewers to take these particular opinions that digress from his official training. It places more onus on the viewers to be discretionary upon their trust in television personalities. For Phil McGraw, as a person, he remains for the most part consistent unlike those like Dr Oz who jump on any and every new idea. Dr Oz is more of a showman personality wise and his show acts like an infomercial to promote new products or services related to his advice. So, yes, shows like these open themselves to be potentially abusive in the sense of a scam. It doesn't take away their value if people choose to make good use of them for self-improvement, however.


Idk these shows (ive no tv), but if Doctor Phil no longer has a license to practice then in what sense is he a Doctor? The show is rightfully called "Phil". The scam is real.
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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby Scott Mayers » Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:22 am

digress wrote:
Scott Mayers wrote: As for Dr Phil, he appropriately did not renew his license to practice for the sake of doing a popular day time show. This allows him license to both bring in his own biases apart from his training as well as to legally segregate responsibility upon viewers to take these particular opinions that digress from his official training. It places more onus on the viewers to be discretionary upon their trust in television personalities. For Phil McGraw, as a person, he remains for the most part consistent unlike those like Dr Oz who jump on any and every new idea. Dr Oz is more of a showman personality wise and his show acts like an infomercial to promote new products or services related to his advice. So, yes, shows like these open themselves to be potentially abusive in the sense of a scam. It doesn't take away their value if people choose to make good use of them for self-improvement, however.


Idk these shows (ive no tv), but if Doctor Phil no longer has a license to practice then in what sense is he a Doctor? The show is rightfully called "Phil". The scam is real.

It can be misleading and has been used as such in many places. Dr. Phil actually was a fully licensed psychologist with Phd credit. But when it comes to putting on public programs, it is best to allow the license to lapse for many legitimate and real reasons. For instance, he is often able to bring on a guest who has questionable legal integrity and allow himself to probe into this person(s) without having to be liable to the costs incurred to all people involved, guests included. These 'costs' are not always financial alone either. If he had to act in his license as a profession, the whole program itself would have to be at minimally be censored by the law and would have to be bound to conform to the guidelines required by all professional psychologists. The most important of these is privacy rights of guests he could counsel. And where things are uncertain, a lot of the material would be closed for public viewing defeating the purpose of the show to help people indirectly through specific key cases.

Reality television has done the same thing. By making these things 'entertainment', they act as such but we can glean some useful information about ourselves by presenting certain experiments that couldn't be done in psychology or other related fields. Where else can you witness, for instance, how a rumor evolves out of relatively innocent circumstances that to see it being played out on a show like, "Survivor"? I find this ingenious and am glad to be in an era where we can witness all this for ourselves.
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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby digress » Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:27 am

so... dr. phil isn't a dr. :lol: :lol:

Scott Mayers wrote: Reality television has done the same thing. By making these things 'entertainment', they act as such but we can glean some useful information about ourselves by presenting certain experiments that couldn't be done in psychology or other related fields. Where else can you witness, for instance, how a rumor evolves out of relatively innocent circumstances that to see it being played out on a show like, "Survivor"? I find this ingenious and am glad to be in an era where we can witness all this for ourselves.


Did you just refer to the plot of Survivor as ingenious? I'm not actually going to touch upon that any further. I've not seen it but there is a common misconception that Reality TV is genuine behavior simply because it isn't following scripted dialog. It is "scripted" in the same way improvisation is "scripted". Reality TV is just a euphemism for drama.
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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby Scott Mayers » Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:34 am

But yet, what evidence do you have of this without checking them out for yourself? Note, for instance, that the Stanford Prison Experiment is not even allowed to be replicated in law. For such things, does this not force it by law to be unable to be considered empirically confirmed or denied? But by re-creating them in a form of entertainment allows such experiments to be done at least indirectly. Even if you presume any 'fakeness' with regards to it, this can still be carried out scientifically by those interested in being a part of the process of making the show to monitor how it is being created to rule out/in those factors which contribute to supporting or not supporting these ideas. And, to top it off, science is being supported indirectly through entertainment. Certainly, you have to admit that many people who try to get onto these shows recognize them as contest games in which they are less able to recognize their own nature to be live guinea pigs (helping to 'blind' it scientifically in this respect).
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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby Scott Mayers » Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:43 am

digress wrote:so... dr. phil isn't a dr. :lol: :lol:


??I guess you seem to presume that a contemporary legal license alone activates intelligence! Then, you'll have to presume also that you'd not even respect anything I could have to say unless I have a formal degree from a recognized 'authority' or institution? Content or Authority? You favor Authority. So if I were to reflect upon your own preference, only if you are a licensed practicing psychiatrist are you eligible to have an opinion here on psychiatry here? ;)
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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby kennyc » Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:48 am

Someone call Judge Judy!
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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:21 pm

digress wrote:
psychiatry is a scam wrote:the religious cult of psychiatry must be exposed


I could see how a medical practice of mental diagnoses could be considered a religious organization if you use it in the following context; "Psychiatry is a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects." For example, a group of knowledgeable characters gathering together to write and publish the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders and saying this document is a fundamental belief in our ability to operate and all of psychiatry must abide by what it has to say to first be credible.

However, this particular example falls short because the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders has been renewed since it's original publishing and so is not a fundamental belief, but rather a tool for practice. For example, it was originally thought Homosexuality was a mental disorder, added the the Manual, and later removed (from what I understand to be the case).

But another problem exists in your linguistic agenda. A cult is a community that worships a thing, person or ideology.

Are you able to point out both a fundamental belief and object of worship inside the field of psychiatry? If not, it is by no means a religious cult and leads me to believe that you've either not critiqued yourself enough on the subject or have your own agenda I'm unable to speculate at the moment. Until then I'd say your abuse of language reveals a tempestuous mind at work and discredits your motive to educate.

On a different note. I've no idea if psychiatry is a scam, which it may be. I personally fail to see how psychiatry isn't just philosophers basing their speculations off things like neuroimaging or institutionalized authority. It's one of the reasons why I avoided college studies in psychology because it appears to be just philosophy without neuroscience.


thanks for noticing the topic , wish I was up to responding earlier.
1) set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons .
your last paragraph - on a different note . I've no idea if psychiatry is a scam - suggests to me that you have not had any experience with the mental health business ?
my experience has led me to believe that an intern has to prove they are going to do exactly what everyone else is doing -PUSH MEDS- they also have to do an interview with a shrink , and have to prove to the shrink they are on the same side , think the same , and will treat sick people like criminals.

2)homosexuality was removed -- ONLY --- because the gay community is well organized ; and has learned how to fight back .

3) religious cult - tempestuous mind at work and discredits your motives to educate - all true to some degree . have never really considered my ranting a desire to educate .

interested if you ever find out if it is a scam or not ? I am really sick , I really need help , I have money , a job , insurance , - who do you think might be most willing and able to help me ?
Last edited by psychiatry is a scam on Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
for the real minority ; there will be no justice , there will be no peace .
makes sense 2me , so it has 2be wrong .

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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby digress » Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:39 pm

psychiatry is a scam wrote:thanks for noticing the topic , wish I was up to responding earlier.
1) set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons .
your last paragraph - on a different note . I've no idea if psychiatry is a scam - suggests to me that you have not had any experience with the mental health business ?
my experience has led me to believe that an intern has to prove they are going to do exactly what everyone else is doing -PUSH MEDS- they also have to do an interview with a shrink , and have to prove to the shrink they are on the same side , think the same , and will treat sick people like criminals.

2)homosexuality was removed -- ONLY --- because the gay community is well organized has learned how to fight back .

3) religious cult - tempestuous mind at work and discredits your motives to educate - all true to some degree . have never really considered my ranting a desire to educate .

interested if you ever find out if it is a scam or not ? I am really sick , I really need help , I have money , a job , insurance , - who do you think might be most willing and able to help me ?


I've no experience with the mental health business. I'm curious what exactly is your experience.

I'm also not convinced I'd draw any conclusions to an industry based on the p.o.v. of a single intern. Simply due to the nature of the "intern" title. Forcing an intern to shut-up, listen and pass a couple tests is not a strong example for your case.

Your claim about homosexuals being removed due to their ability to organize. It still shows the "religion" changed. For example an actual religious cult like Christianity will not remove even the most immoral and horrible passages they all admit are sick and metaphorical at-best. That's why religious sect's exist. No actual reform may come to the religion itself if it's going to survive as a religion. Do you understand how this sets psychiatry aside with an example like the one I provided? (im not confident I can find you another)

I feel sad about your last question. I'd say it's a difficult problem... but you say you are sick & Idk what that means. I'd like to think that your willingness to be upfront about help puts you at an advantage, but the extent of that advantage sits on a razors edge since I know so little about you. gl, feel free to ask questions..
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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:33 pm

digress wrote:
psychiatry is a scam wrote:thanks for noticing the topic , wish I was up to responding earlier.
1) set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons .
your last paragraph - on a different note . I've no idea if psychiatry is a scam - suggests to me that you have not had any experience with the mental health business ?
my experience has led me to believe that an intern has to prove they are going to do exactly what everyone else is doing -PUSH MEDS- they also have to do an interview with a shrink , and have to prove to the shrink they are on the same side , think the same , and will treat sick people like criminals.

2)homosexuality was removed -- ONLY --- because the gay community is well organized has learned how to fight back .

3) religious cult - tempestuous mind at work and discredits your motives to educate - all true to some degree . have never really considered my ranting a desire to educate .

interested if you ever find out if it is a scam or not ? I am really sick , I really need help , I have money , a job , insurance , - who do you think might be most willing and able to help me ?


I've no experience with the mental health business. I'm curious what exactly is your experience.

I'm also not convinced I'd draw any conclusions to an industry based on the p.o.v. of a single intern. Simply due to the nature of the "intern" title. Forcing an intern to shut-up, listen and pass a couple tests is not a strong example for your case.

Your claim about homosexuals being removed due to their ability to organize. It still shows the "religion" changed. For example an actual religious cult like Christianity will not remove even the most immoral and horrible passages they all admit are sick and metaphorical at-best. That's why religious sect's exist. No actual reform may come to the religion itself if it's going to survive as a religion. Do you understand how this sets psychiatry aside with an example like the one I provided? (im not confident I can find you another)

I feel sad about your last question. I'd say it's a difficult problem... but you say you are sick & Idk what that means. I'd like to think that your willingness to be upfront about help puts you at an advantage, but the extent of that advantage sits on a razors edge since I know so little about you. gl, feel free to ask questions..



You feel sad and say its a difficult problem , because you know there is no help . if psychiatry was like say ( dentistry - they do real work and can really help ) you would be able to say - go to the nearest major hospital , the psychiatrist on call will assess your situation and refer you to an ADVOCATE who will get you a home help agency who will help you as much as financially possible ; including financial and legal help . i.e. SSD and work comp and discrimination lawsuits . the psychiatrist will follow up and make sure you have someone - a doctor , lawyer , or psychiatrist who will make sure the advocate and home health agency are not robbing you and they are doing whatever is possible .
you can not say that because you know everyone and every business are scams designed to rob the mentally sick and defenseless
for the real minority ; there will be no justice , there will be no peace .
makes sense 2me , so it has 2be wrong .

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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby digress » Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:55 pm

psychiatry is a scam wrote:You feel sad and say its a difficult problem , because you know there is no help . if psychiatry was like say ( dentistry - they do real work and can really help ) you would be able to say - go to the nearest major hospital , the psychiatrist on call will assess your situation and refer you to an ADVOCATE who will get you a home help agency who will help you as much as financially possible ; including financial and legal help . i.e. SSD and work comp and discrimination lawsuits . the psychiatrist will follow up and make sure you have someone - a doctor , lawyer , or psychiatrist who will make sure the advocate and home health agency are not robbing you and they are doing whatever is possible .
you can not say that because you know everyone and every business are scams designed to rob the mentally sick and defenseless


No, I'm sad because it's a difficult problem. No additional reasoning exists because you've not shown you are mentally sick any more than you've shown you are here for attention. Your dictation has left me unconvinced of either possibilities.

The medical "practice" is a practice at diagnosing health issues. It's why I stated previously in this thread that although medicine or drugs may have specific outcomes, the diagnosis itself is still rooted in philosophy. It's not to say this is a scam. A scam is an intentional fraud. You stake claim that because psychiatry hasn't helped you that you've been scammed. Or you say because it's practice is flawed and outdated it's a scam.

If you are able to distinguish the scam then please tell me a mental issue you deal with, the solution you were diagnosed, the reasons for that diagnoses and then show the solution was a play on your innocence. It appears all you've been able to show so far is that a person offering help is fueled by a cynical motive. I'm sorry but that's cynicism, not a scam and not evidence for a religion or cult.
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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:38 am

digress wrote:The medical "practice" is a practice at diagnosing health issues. It's why I stated previously in this thread that although medicine or drugs may have specific outcomes, the diagnosis itself is still rooted in philosophy. It's not to say this is a scam. A scam is an intentional fraud. You stake claim that because psychiatry hasn't helped you that you've been scammed. Or you say because it's practice is flawed and outdated it's a scam.


I'd say statistics more than philosophy in basic behavioural identification. My father was a psychiatrist and censor for the RANZCP. I didn't understand what specials skills he had when I was young. It was only later when I studied Industrial & Organizational psychology that the penny dropped. The validity testing of treatments were basically statistically based.

I think this can be justified for simple psychological phenomena, like "over learning". "PTSD" and "depression through loss". However, I agree with you that more complex psychological behaviours probably belong in the realm of philosophy, because they can't be easily tested.

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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby digress » Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:16 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
digress wrote:The medical "practice" is a practice at diagnosing health issues. It's why I stated previously in this thread that although medicine or drugs may have specific outcomes, the diagnosis itself is still rooted in philosophy. It's not to say this is a scam. A scam is an intentional fraud. You stake claim that because psychiatry hasn't helped you that you've been scammed. Or you say because it's practice is flawed and outdated it's a scam.


I'd say statistics more than philosophy in basic behavioural identification...


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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:37 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Gord wrote: You're not the only one being treated by a psychiatrist here.


It's pretty normal. I saw a psychiatrist once as I developed an anxiety issue during my final law exams. ( I was finishing study at midnight and waking up at 3am and studying again before going to work). He made me give up "pot" for three months and trained me to fall asleep reading "women's interest magazines" at 3am. No drugs.

It was a huge deal to me at the time. However I remember sitting at the end of the last exam, everyone else left and the "mistresses of the exam room" said "Go on, on your bike. This isn't a waiting room". I then couldn't work out why I was so anxious in the first place. My psychiatrist did a good job.

Other people have more complicated issues. Psychiatrists do their best, They are just doctors of another variety.


" psychiatrists do their best " ???? I put more effort and care more about the machines I work on , then shrinks care about me .
I have an idea of what I consider to be minimum effort (just be honest). shrinks always lie .
for the real minority ; there will be no justice , there will be no peace .
makes sense 2me , so it has 2be wrong .

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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:27 am

psychiatry is a scam wrote: I put more effort and care more about the machines I work on , than shrinks care about me.
You're not seeing a shrink. Remember?

You are complaining that the shrink, you refuse to see, doesn't care about you, even though he doesn't know you even exist, because you won't see him.

You really need help.

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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby Gord » Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:31 pm

My shrink likes me 'cause he gets paid to. Plus I hardly ever complain to him about "the blacks". :P
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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby Jaina_Proudmoore » Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:43 am

Meh that depends on people! There are good docs and bad docs just like there are good people and bad people in general. I wouldn't generalize.

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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:10 am

Jaina_Proudmoore wrote:Meh that depends on people! There are good docs and bad docs just like there are good people and bad people in general. I wouldn't generalize.


my experience is you are wrong . everyone in the medical field is trained to believe there is nothing that can be done for the mentally sick.
not one person in almost 20 years has ever had anything but hostility for me . your meh is an example .
smart people go with the flow . they want to make money and friends . they know that agreeing with everyone is the smart thing to do .
only stupid fool losers would disagree . there are no stupid people in the medical business
for the real minority ; there will be no justice , there will be no peace .
makes sense 2me , so it has 2be wrong .

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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:55 am

Jaina_Proudmoore wrote:Meh that depends on people! There are good docs and bad docs just like there are good people and bad people in general. I wouldn't generalize.
psychiatry is a scam wrote:my experience is you are wrong
You don't have any experience with psychiatrists. You refuse to see them remember?

psychiatry is a scam wrote: everyone in the medical field is trained to believe there is nothing that can be done for the mentally sick.
Complete crap.

psychiatry is a scam wrote:not one person in almost 20 years has ever had anything but hostility for me .
That's because you have paranoid delusions and are a racist. You don't want to get better. Your "working plan" is to spend all day complaining about psychiatrists on forums, while feeling sorry for yourself.

What is your plan for getting better? You haven't got one!

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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby OlegTheBatty » Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:26 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
digress wrote:The medical "practice" is a practice at diagnosing health issues. It's why I stated previously in this thread that although medicine or drugs may have specific outcomes, the diagnosis itself is still rooted in philosophy. It's not to say this is a scam. A scam is an intentional fraud. You stake claim that because psychiatry hasn't helped you that you've been scammed. Or you say because it's practice is flawed and outdated it's a scam.


I'd say statistics more than philosophy in basic behavioural identification. My father was a psychiatrist and censor for the RANZCP. I didn't understand what specials skills he had when I was young. It was only later when I studied Industrial & Organizational psychology that the penny dropped. The validity testing of treatments were basically statistically based.

I think this can be justified for simple psychological phenomena, like "over learning". "PTSD" and "depression through loss". However, I agree with you that more complex psychological behaviours probably belong in the realm of philosophy, because they can't be easily tested.

There is no meaningful database on the effectiveness of most treatment modalities in mental health. A few have been studied, fewer still studied well.

Even the authors/editors of the DSM V concede that there is little scientific basis for most diagnoses. Their philosophy seems to be "There isn't much objective scientific evidence for most disorders, so lets just make stuff up that will make money for the pharmaceutical companies until there is."

Throw in fuzzy definitions for things like ADHD, and you get the current situation where there are many times more diagnoses than the prevalence in the population warrants.

I don't know how Pias arrives at his conclusion that mental health professionals don't care. Most of the MH pros I've known (quite a few - I worked at a Crisis Centre for 6 years) not only cared but cared deeply. Unfortunately, caring doesn't cure.
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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby Monster » Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:59 pm

psychiatry is a scam wrote:
Jaina_Proudmoore wrote:Meh that depends on people! There are good docs and bad docs just like there are good people and bad people in general. I wouldn't generalize.


my experience is you are wrong . everyone in the medical field is trained to believe there is nothing that can be done for the mentally sick.
not one person in almost 20 years has ever had anything but hostility for me . your meh is an example .
smart people go with the flow . they want to make money and friends . they know that agreeing with everyone is the smart thing to do .
only stupid fool losers would disagree . there are no stupid people in the medical business

Utter nonsense.
Listening twice as much as you speak is a sign of wisdom.

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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:49 pm

A-number wrote:
psychiatry is a scam wrote:
Jaina_Proudmoore wrote:Meh that depends on people! There are good docs and bad docs just like there are good people and bad people in general. I wouldn't generalize.


my experience is you are wrong . everyone in the medical field is trained to believe there is nothing that can be done for the mentally sick.
not one person in almost 20 years has ever had anything but hostility for me . your meh is an example .
smart people go with the flow . they want to make money and friends . they know that agreeing with everyone is the smart thing to do .
only stupid fool losers would disagree . there are no stupid people in the medical business


So based on what you just said, the above, are we to take it that you are "stupid" because you are disagreeing with most in here?


psyism / piasism "any comment / idea is always based on everything " not just a specific that stands out at the moment .
I go by the past , and present . stupid things I have done and said . and how easy it is for people to screw over me . regrets I have many .
I think about stuff that happened over forty years ago , but have trouble remembering where I put the tv remote a couple minutes ago.
but yes it is stupid to not agree with the majority ; on anything i.e. jesus is the son of god and part of the mystery of the holy trinity - father son and holy ghost .
I was taught that in grade school :burn:
Last edited by psychiatry is a scam on Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby Gord » Tue Sep 23, 2014 10:51 pm

psychiatry is a scam wrote:I think about stuff that happened over forty years ago , but have trouble remembering where I put the remote .

It's okay, they didn't have very good remotes over forty years ago anyway.

Image
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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby OlegTheBatty » Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:03 pm

Gord wrote:
psychiatry is a scam wrote:I think about stuff that happened over forty years ago , but have trouble remembering where I put the remote .

It's okay, they didn't have very good remotes over forty years ago anyway.

Image

Yabbut, they didn't need batteries.
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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby Bertvan-2 » Sat Sep 27, 2014 4:52 pm

How might Freudian psychoanalysis enable someone to understand other people’s thoughts and emotions? We all make personal evaluations of people we meet. Unlike psychiatrists, most of us, quite aware of the fallibility of our judgments, tend to keep our opinions to ourselves. But what makes such an evaluation by a psychologist or psychiatrist more “scientific” than the opinion of a layman? I am vaguely aware of many of the details that allow a chemist to understand chemistry. I've seen the formulas that allow a physicist to claim authority in physics. I'm aware of the type of information that might allow an anthropologist to claim specialty in that field. But what specialized information renders a psychologist an authority on other people's thinking? I know they conduct experiments to determine which thoughts and reactions are average. But what enables a therapist to understand individuals? What, other than arrogance would enable a psychologist to claim to be an authority on love. The phrase “maternal rejection” means exactly what it appears to mean; psychologists claim the ability to determine that children become mentally ill due to a lack of love. Certainly all those psychology books I read never gave me the ability to measure how much love someone might feel. Nor did those books give me much insight into how people think - much less make me an authority on how people are supposed to think. Let us never forget that during all the years that psychiatrists believed mental illness was caused by bad parenting, when they interrogated the parents they saw pathology. Whenever they looked for pathology in a patient, they found it.
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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby Gord » Sun Sep 28, 2014 12:53 am

Does anyone even still do "Freudian psychoanalysis"?
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Re: psychiatry is a scam

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Sep 28, 2014 1:00 am

Gord wrote:Does anyone even still do "Freudian psychoanalysis"?

Yep. It has been renamed Talk Therapy and has added statistical behaviour remedies.

Talk therapy is a general term used to describe a set of therapeutic techniques that are rooted in what psychoanalyst Sigmund Freud referred to as the talking cure. While this technique is heavily associated with psychoanalysis, it is also utilized in a range of treatment approaches including cognitive-behavioral therapy, group therapy, counseling, and client-centered therapy.

However, I think you are referring to classic Freudian psychoanalysis, like "Rat man" which was sort of "hit and miss" and not validity tested. I simply don't know if much of his classic theory has been kept in modern psychoanalysis.


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