The Brexit: Perhaps a Comprehensive Look

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The Brexit: Perhaps a Comprehensive Look

Postby Tom Palven » Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:52 am

If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: The Brexit: Perhaps a Comprehensive Look

Postby Fab Yolis » Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:05 am

The European Union of Soviet Socialist Republics is an inherently unsustainable abomination; it is living on borrowed time, especially now that its second largest net contributor has just voted to leave and there are big pushes in its 3rd, 4th and 5th largest net contributors to do likewise.
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Re: The Brexit: Perhaps a Comprehensive Look

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:57 am

I OBJECT: to your trespass and hijacking of "my" thread on the same subject. Why do that to ANY subject?? It only creates confusion and double posting. VERY BAD FORM.

........... and thats not even counting that your "more comprehensive look" provides less insight and fewer facts than does the initial link in the FIRST well attended post ON SUBJECT.

You might have discovered this yourself had you prefaced your link with a review as to why it was more comprehensive or what additional info or approach it provided over the already existing thread.

Yea Verily.

I post not for myself..........but for anyone who wants to follow the Brexit issue. Simply: BAD FORM.
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Re: The Brexit: Perhaps a Comprehensive Look

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:42 am

:hmm: Different subforum... :pardon:
.

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Re: The Brexit: Perhaps a Comprehensive Look

Postby Shen1986 » Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:46 am

Venerable Kwan Tam Woo wrote:The European Union of Soviet Socialist Republics is an inherently unsustainable abomination; it is living on borrowed time


Are we not all living on borrowed time now?? As I see it the economy is not the only problem. The Democratic People's Republic of Korea (North Korea) is testing nukes. The brown are on the rise, global warming etc. I think if I survive to 50 years with a job I will be extremely lucky.
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Re: The Brexit: Perhaps a Comprehensive Look

Postby ElectricMonk » Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:54 am

Tom Palven wrote:An analysis of the Brexit:
http://fff.org/explore-freedom/article/ ... r-plunder/


hogwash.

The UK is one of the least democratic democracies around, mostly due to its age. The system of how MPs are elected often leads to people with no majority of votes getting the post. The UK also has little in terms of rights of free speech or free press.
Instead of whining about having to play by some common rules, how about Britain reforms itself before it demands the rest of the world to do so for its convenience?
Last edited by ElectricMonk on Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Brexit: Perhaps a Comprehensive Look

Postby ElectricMonk » Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:59 am

Venerable Kwan Tam Woo wrote:The European Union of Soviet Socialist Republics is an inherently unsustainable abomination; it is living on borrowed time, especially now that its second largest net contributor has just voted to leave and there are big pushes in its 3rd, 4th and 5th largest net contributors to do likewise.



also rubbish:
by population, the UK is only the 7th largest contributor, and the very last by % of GNI (gross national income).
The UK so far had a more or less free ride in the EU, with plenty of special rules just for it. That is about to change.

I got all that from your source, VKTW - you should check whether your source actually supports your claims instead of flat-out contradict them.

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Re: The Brexit: Perhaps a Comprehensive Look

Postby Poodle » Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:56 am

I wouldn't know - I'm merely British.

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Re: The Brexit: Perhaps a Comprehensive Look

Postby Tom Palven » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:44 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:I OBJECT: to your trespass and hijacking of "my" thread on the same subject. Why do that to ANY subject?? It only creates confusion and double posting. VERY BAD FORM.

........... and thats not even counting that your "more comprehensive look" provides less insight and fewer facts than does the initial link in the FIRST well attended post ON SUBJECT.

You might have discovered this yourself had you prefaced your link with a review as to why it was more comprehensive or what additional info or approach it provided over the already existing thread.

Yea Verily.

I post not for myself..........but for anyone who wants to follow the Brexit issue. Simply: BAD FORM.


I hadn't noticed your thread on the brexit or would have posted there.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: The Brexit: Perhaps a Comprehensive Look

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:53 pm

Fair enough. On each visit, I click on "Quick Links" and go to "New Posts." Any post I step on thereafter is usually a week or so old wihtout anyone responding to it.

Thank you.
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Re: The Brexit: Perhaps a Comprehensive Look

Postby OutOfBreath » Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:48 pm

Sounds like libertarian wishful thinking to put this about "free trade", when the main drivers behind the brexit is the malcontents of modernity, those at a disadvantage because of global trade. Anti-immigration, dreams of old empire and protectionism towards national industries seems to be the main themes for those in favour.

But this is one of the reasons brexit as-is is loony. You have the "freer traders" and the "{!#%@} traders" agreeing the eu is smelly and stupid, without any direction to go once that's achieved since they wanted it for exact opposite reasons. I think if this direction had been resolved beforehand, brexit would never have happened since each side would reject the other's solution.

Which is why I think this will all fizzle out into nothing in the end as britain will eithe reverse or get such a deal with the eu so that they'll practically be members again soon. Boris' speech indicated as much. "We won! So everyone carry on as before..."

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Re: The Brexit: Perhaps a Comprehensive Look

Postby OlegTheBatty » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:49 pm

OutOfBreath wrote:Sounds like libertarian wishful thinking to put this about "free trade", when the main drivers behind the brexit is the malcontents of modernity, those at a disadvantage because of global trade. Anti-immigration, dreams of old empire and protectionism towards national industries seems to be the main themes for those in favour.

But this is one of the reasons brexit as-is is loony. You have the "freer traders" and the "{!#%@} traders" agreeing the eu is smelly and stupid, without any direction to go once that's achieved since they wanted it for exact opposite reasons. I think if this direction had been resolved beforehand, brexit would never have happened since each side would reject the other's solution.

Which is why I think this will all fizzle out into nothing in the end as britain will eithe reverse or get such a deal with the eu so that they'll practically be members again soon. Boris' speech indicated as much. "We won! So everyone carry on as before..."

Peace
Dan

Plus Cameron's resignation means that there will be no exit negotiations until after his resignation, after an election campaign and election, after the new gov't 'studies' their alternatives etc. etc.

By the time all that happens, most of the brexit supporters may have died of old age.
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Re: The Brexit: Perhaps a Comprehensive Look

Postby Fab Yolis » Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:56 am

ElectricMonk wrote:
Venerable Kwan Tam Woo wrote:The European Union of Soviet Socialist Republics is an inherently unsustainable abomination; it is living on borrowed time, especially now that its second largest net contributor has just voted to leave and there are big pushes in its 3rd, 4th and 5th largest net contributors to do likewise.



also rubbish:
by population, the UK is only the 7th largest contributor, and the very last by % of GNI (gross national income).
The UK so far had a more or less free ride in the EU, with plenty of special rules just for it. That is about to change.

I got all that from your source, VKTW - you should check whether your source actually supports your claims instead of flat-out contradict them.


Seriously, have you recently taken up petrol sniffing?? I'm fully aware that the UK has the smallest per capita contribution. THAT'S BESIDE THE POINT! The point is that they are putting in *more* money to the EUSSR than any other country except the 4th Reich itself.

And what "special rules" are you talking about? The fact that they got to >gasp< keep their own currency?! :shock: :lol: :lol:
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Re: The Brexit: Perhaps a Comprehensive Look

Postby ElectricMonk » Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:25 am

@VKTW

get informed, will ya?

The UK has opted out of Schengen, the "Area of freedom, security and justice", the EMU and it didn't sign the Fundamental Charter of Human Rights.

UK is doing "Europe á la carte" whenever it can.

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Re: The Brexit: Perhaps a Comprehensive Look

Postby Fab Yolis » Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:07 am

ElectricMonk wrote:@VKTW

get informed, will ya?

The UK has opted out of Schengen, the "Area of freedom, security and justice", the EMU and it didn't sign the Fundamental Charter of Human Rights.


How do these opt-outs qualify as "special rules" for the UK? I presume they are special in the sense that the UK is the only EUSSR member state which is allowed to have them? If so, then why aren't other EUSSR member states demanding an end to this inequitable two-tier arrangement? Why are all these layers of Bureaucracy and regulation good enough for the rest of the EUSSR but not for the UK? And from the UK's point of view, what is the point of being part of a burgeoning bureaucratic superstate when you don't participate in its key agreements? Gee, it's almost like the main (alleged) benefits of the EUSSR don't actually require such an entity at all...

UK is doing "Europe á la carte" whenever it can.


So it bloody well should! The Brexit is just another example of this sensible and pragmatic approach.
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Re: The Brexit: Perhaps a Comprehensive Look

Postby Poodle » Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:40 am

a) All UK opt-outs were negotiated and were therefore perfectly valid.
b) The UK rebate was negotiated and was therefore perfectly valid.
c) When the UK joined, the whole kit and caboodle was called the EEC (European Economic Community) as opposed to its current title (EU - European Union). Moving the goalposts is a good description of the situation and that tends to piss people off.
d) The UK population (in very general terms) divides into two camps - those who were politically aware before we joined anything and those who weren't but have grown into a European mindset. The Rule Britannia mob versus the bright young things, then. The bright young things forgot to vote in the referendum.
e) The idea of not triggering Article 50 is a non-starter and any politician espousing that policy would not be a politician for long.
f) The EU is a superficially democratic organisation with an autocratic core. It needs to get rid of that core or it will fall apart (astrology is easy).
g) The UK will, in the short term, suffer economic decline. In the long term there will be recovery as other markets (including a new, sensible EU) open up.

The sun will rise one day upon a new and glorious empire with England in its rightful place. God save the Queen and all who sail in her.

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Re: The Brexit: Perhaps a Comprehensive Look

Postby ElectricMonk » Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:09 am

VTKW, the fact that the UK can and did pick-and-chose what parts of EU law to adopt, and that it can leave anytime it wants shows that the EU is nothing like the Soviet Block during the Cold War.
You are completely undermining any reasonable argument you have by insisting on such an obviously faulty comparison.

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Re: The Brexit: Perhaps a Comprehensive Look

Postby ElectricMonk » Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:23 am

The EU is not autocratic for the basic reason that it has no executive power: it has some legislature,and a tiny judicative branch, but there are no jack-booted thugs with EU lapels breaking down your door if you didn't stick to one regulation or another.

For every unwanted regulation, the members make a cost-benefit analysis, and the majority of domestic UK citizens just decided that the gain isn't worth the hassle.

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Re: The Brexit: Perhaps a Comprehensive Look

Postby Fab Yolis » Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:16 am

ElectricMonk wrote:VTKW, the fact that the UK can and did pick-and-chose what parts of EU law to adopt, and that it can leave anytime it wants shows that the EU is nothing like the Soviet Block during the Cold War.


No, what it shows is that 1) the very premise of the EUSSR is not only unnecessary but also undesirable, and 2) the British people were compelled to vote to leave because the EUSSR has metastasized from an economic community into a transnational bureaucratic {!#%@} which shows all the signs of further metastasizing into a full-blown Soviet-style superstate in the coming years.

The EU is not autocratic for the basic reason that it has no executive power: it has some legislature,and a tiny judicative branch, but there are no jack-booted thugs with EU lapels breaking down your door if you didn't stick to one regulation or another.


Not yet...
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Re: The Brexit: Perhaps a Comprehensive Look

Postby ElectricMonk » Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:20 am

@VTKW

you are so lucky to have no idea what autocracy really is.

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Re: The Brexit: Perhaps a Comprehensive Look

Postby Fab Yolis » Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:27 am

ElectricMonk wrote:@VTKW

you are so lucky to have no idea what autocracy really is.


So are you.
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Re: The Brexit: Perhaps a Comprehensive Look

Postby ElectricMonk » Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:32 am

Venerable Kwan Tam Woo wrote:
ElectricMonk wrote:@VTKW

you are so lucky to have no idea what autocracy really is.


So are you.


Turkey is a country that does not bow to EU dictates: seems like you want to move there.

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Re: The Brexit: Perhaps a Comprehensive Look

Postby Fab Yolis » Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:26 pm

I'm pro-Brexit precisely because I don't want to move to Turkey!
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Re: The Brexit: Perhaps a Comprehensive Look

Postby ElectricMonk » Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:50 pm

Venerable Kwan Tam Woo wrote:I'm pro-Brexit precisely because I don't want to move to Turkey!


That makes no sense...

The EU is nothing like Turkey, and the fact that you can't tell shows that you just have no clue what you are talking about.

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Re: The Brexit: Perhaps a Comprehensive Look

Postby OutOfBreath » Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:49 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:
Venerable Kwan Tam Woo wrote:I'm pro-Brexit precisely because I don't want to move to Turkey!


That makes no sense...

The EU is nothing like Turkey, and the fact that you can't tell shows that you just have no clue what you are talking about.

I wouldn't be surprised if thats a reference to Eurabia crap. Or you know, how europe is all "sharia zones" now. :roll:

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Re: The Brexit: Perhaps a Comprehensive Look

Postby Paul Anthony » Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:47 pm

Venerable Kwan Tam Woo wrote:
No, what it shows is that 1) the very premise of the EUSSR is not only unnecessary but also undesirable, and 2) the British people were compelled to vote to leave because the EUSSR has metastasized from an economic community into a transnational bureaucratic {!#%@} which shows all the signs of further metastasizing into a full-blown Soviet-style superstate in the coming years.


ElectricMonk wrote:The EU is not autocratic for the basic reason that it has no executive power: it has some legislature,and a tiny judicative branch, but there are no jack-booted thugs with EU lapels breaking down your door if you didn't stick to one regulation or another.


I don't see the EU turning into something like the USSR. I see it trying hard to become something like the USA. It's a minor distinction since both the USSR and USA are bureaucratic {!#%@} with jack-booted thugs ready and willing to break down your door if you don't stick to one regulation or another.
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Re: The Brexit: Perhaps a Comprehensive Look

Postby Fab Yolis » Tue Aug 02, 2016 2:46 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:
Venerable Kwan Tam Woo wrote:I'm pro-Brexit precisely because I don't want to move to Turkey!


That makes no sense...'


Think about it ;)

The EU is nothing like Turkey, and the fact that you can't tell shows that you just have no clue what you are talking about.


YET. The EUSSR is nothing like Turkey YET. But give it another couple of decades, Visa-free travel for Turks and/or 2 million+ refujihadis pouring in...
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Re: The Brexit: Perhaps a Comprehensive Look

Postby OutOfBreath » Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:32 pm

Yep. I called it!

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Re: The Brexit: Perhaps a Comprehensive Look

Postby Fab Yolis » Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:06 am

I wasn't aware that offering up a childishly-worded Straw Man qualified as "calling it". Well, I guess you learn something new everyday...
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