Opinions on Nooalf

Methods and means of supporting critical thinking in education
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JO 753
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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby JO 753 » Wed May 20, 2015 7:01 pm

I think most uv you who hav partisipated in this topic are skeptical uv my estimate that the cost uv English spelling iz in the hundredz uv billionz per yir.

Just a tiny sample story here mite make it a littl more credibl for you:

http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2015/05/13/ala-reading-intervention-stands-test-of-time.html

Teachers are the engine of the Alabama Reading Initiative. More than 95 percent of the program's current $48 million annual budget is spent to pay for some 750 coaches, all former classroom educators, who work in schools and have day-to-day contact with reading teachers. They're charged with observing teachers and modeling lessons, providing feedback, and devising plans to improve each teacher's instructional effectiveness.


Thats 48 million for 1 state. Not the entire world. Not the entire US. Not the entire K-12 literacy training expenditure. Thats just a program to help the teacherz get Alabama students 'up to par', wutever that meanz wen the averaj failure rate iz 17%.
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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby JO 753 » Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:59 pm

An example uv a system made by a foriner: http://www.simpelfonetik.com/spelling-qa.html

You mite think he must be sum sort uv idiot, but this iz actually wun uv the better wunz! Forinerz do not hear wut we hear and alwayz kum up with horrible systemz. Az usual, its heavily influensed by the IPA, like they all go to Wikipedia and get the same bad ideaz.

Sumthing that gets my paranoia going iz that he haz a paje on Omniglot, several newzpaper articlez and iz mentioned in the Wiki spelling reform article az a notable contemporary spelling reform advocate. The illuminati like to prezent totally crappy reform propozalz to help subdue any interest.
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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby Poodle » Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:26 pm

You used i four different ways, there, JO.

Just sayin'.

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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby Monster » Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:12 am

JO 753 wrote:An example uv a system made by a foriner: http://www.simpelfonetik.com/spelling-qa.html

You mite think he must be sum sort uv idiot, but this iz actually wun uv the better wunz! Forinerz do not hear wut we hear and alwayz kum up with horrible systemz. Az usual, its heavily influensed by the IPA, like they all go to Wikipedia and get the same bad ideaz.

Sumthing that gets my paranoia going iz that he haz a paje on Omniglot, several newzpaper articlez and iz mentioned in the Wiki spelling reform article az a notable contemporary spelling reform advocate. The illuminati like to prezent totally crappy reform propozalz to help subdue any interest.

Everybody's stupid except you. Of course. :)
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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby JO 753 » Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:15 pm

Only 4? I bet u lingwist woud say 6.

Did you look, Monster? Its pretty funny, really. He completely drops several letterz, uzez digrafs, trigrafs and doubl letterz to make up for the shortfall, all wile claiming its 1 letter per sound!
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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby JO 753 » Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:18 pm

Jack Windsor Lewis haz a website about linguistics. He haz spent hiz life studying and teaching the subject, publishing several books and many articlez. He'z retired now at 87, but still partisipates in a lingistics forum. Seemz he haz sum notionz about spelling reform.

If you spend an owr or so peruzing thoze pajez, you may be able to get an appreciation for the amount uv time that haz been devoted to the subject, especially conserning English.

You will also see that linguistics iz not the presise and clear 'science' that you may hav imajined.

Nooalf lojik duznt exactly fly in the face uv standard linguistics, but I understand how sumwun who haz been thinking with this perspectiv for 70 yirz will be outrajed by it.
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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby JO 753 » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:15 am

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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby JO 753 » Thu Aug 06, 2015 2:25 pm

A statement from sumwun who shoud know better:

Is the English spelling system predictable or unpredictable?

The English spelling system is not crazy or unpredictable. It can be taught as a system that makes sense. Nearly 50% of English words are predictable based on sound-letter correspondences alone (e.g., slap, pitch, boy). An additional 37% of the more common words are almost predictable except for one sound (e.g., knit and boat). Other information, such as the language from which a word came (e.g., Old English, Latin, Greek, or French) and word meaning, also helps explain the spellings of words. Only 4% of English words are truly irregular and may have to be learned through whole word methods, such as tracing and saying the letters while the word is being memorized. Thus, it is possible to approach spelling instruction with confidence that the system by and large makes sense–an encouraging observation for students who have great difficulty forming memories for words.


"It can be taught as a system that makes sense"?

I dont know or care who actually rote it, but its from a paje on the International Dyslexia Association website that puts all the blame on the dyslexics.

Maybe if teacherz just admitted from the beginning that its a bunch uv nonsense, the kidz woudnt waste their time trying to figure it out, or feel stupid wen they cant.
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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby Austin Harper » Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:06 pm

But it isn't nonsense. The quote you posted shows that.
Dum ratio nos ducet, valebimus et multa bene geremus.

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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby JO 753 » Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:45 pm

It claimz that.

Look for yourself. You can rite sumthing in Nooalf and regular english and see how many wordz match exactly.
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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby Austin Harper » Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:11 pm

Knit comes from the Old English cnyttan, pronounced with a hard C at the beginning. Knowing that the word has an OE root lets you know that the k sound is dropped. This is a consistent rule (cf knight, knife, etc.). There is actually a Wikipedia article about this (Silent k):
Wikipedia wrote:In Old English, ⟨k⟩ and ⟨g⟩ were not silent in these words. Cognates in other Germanic languages show that the ⟨k⟩ was probably a voiceless velar plosive in Proto-Germanic (compare German Knecht to knight, Knoten to knot, etc. where the initial ⟨k⟩ is not silent); likewise, ⟨g⟩ was probably a voiced velar plosive (compare German Gnom to gnome, Gneis to gneiss, etc. where the initial ⟨g⟩ is not silent).
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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby JO 753 » Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:35 pm

And why do you think that makes it sensible?

If you got out to your new car and found a guy bolting a wip socket to the fender, woud you say 'alritey then' after lissening to him explain the history uv horse drawn carriajes and early automobilez?
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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby Poodle » Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:48 pm

I'm very fond of the history tied up in languages, thank you very much.

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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby Austin Harper » Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:58 pm

It's more like you complaining about "horsepower" even though your car isn't powered by horses. It's not causing any problems, you're just bending yourself out of shape over it.
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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby JO 753 » Fri Aug 07, 2015 2:48 am

Incorrect.

The units uv measure used for the power uv the enjine duznt affect its function.
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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby JO 753 » Fri Aug 07, 2015 2:50 am

Poodle wrote:I'm very fond of the history tied up in languages, thank you very much.


Thats too bad for you then.

The history will be erased in order to make a clean break from the past.
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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby Monster » Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:54 am

JO 753 wrote:The history will be erased in order to make a clean break from the past.

That's very ugly. :flushed:
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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby Poodle » Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:05 am

Nah - that's just JO casually dismissing the bit of any language which he knows makes his case weaker. He loves the history too, but the inventor in him is defending his invention.

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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby JO 753 » Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:41 pm

Libreryz will be cleaned out completely and restocked with everything duplicated in Nooalf.

The librerianz themselvez, formerly amongst the most ardent Gate Keeperz uv The Queenz English will now be the local authorityz in charje uv enforsment.

Cleanzing squadz will collect all privately owned ritten materialz, going into every home and apartment. They will hav the authority to arest anybody attempting to hide old english. Even 12 y.o. boyz with Playboy magz under their matressez will not be immune from prosecution. They will return home from their re-education az soldierz in the campane, eager to turn in their frendz and family if they find infractionz.

Everybodyz namez will be automaticly chanjed by the goverment. During this period peepl will hav the option to pick an entirely new name, the only rule being that it must conform to Nooalf spelling.

Most moviez will need to be altered thruout to erase any trace uv offending material, not just the beginning titlez and end credits. Just an old street sine overlooked in the background will be enuf to earn a movie studio a hefty fine!

I am truly sorry, Poodle and Monster, but The Revolution will not be plezent for you.
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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby Monster » Fri Aug 07, 2015 2:05 pm

JO 753 wrote:Libreryz will be cleaned out completely and restocked with everything duplicated in Nooalf.

The librerianz themselvez, formerly amongst the most ardent Gate Keeperz uv The Queenz English will now be the local authorityz in charje uv enforsment.

Cleanzing squadz will collect all privately owned ritten materialz, going into every home and apartment. They will hav the authority to arest anybody attempting to hide old english. Even 12 y.o. boyz with Playboy magz under their matressez will not be immune from prosecution. They will return home from their re-education az soldierz in the campane, eager to turn in their frendz and family if they find infractionz.

Everybodyz namez will be automaticly chanjed by the goverment. During this period peepl will hav the option to pick an entirely new name, the only rule being that it must conform to Nooalf spelling.

Most moviez will need to be altered thruout to erase any trace uv offending material, not just the beginning titlez and end credits. Just an old street sine overlooked in the background will be enuf to earn a movie studio a hefty fine!

I am truly sorry, Poodle and Monster, but The Revolution will not be plezent for you.

That's not just ugly, it's disgusting.

So I think you're joking.

Otherwise, you're like Hilter, Stalin, and Mao all put together. So, congratulations on that.

But again, I just assume you're joking.
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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby JO 753 » Fri Aug 07, 2015 2:55 pm

After 30 yirz uv XU PRJ, the final tally will be quite impressive: 40 trillion American dollarz expended (not counting the remaining annual bujet uv the Nooalf Revolution goverment ajensyz) 8,000,000 subversivez executed, 20,000,000 sentensed to life-hard labor, 27,000 unco-operativ corporationz dizzolved or nationalized, 14 nationz conquered and reorganized by The Nooalf Revolution Global Reformation Army.

A dark time in the history uv the human rase, but, like the regrowth after a forest fire, the world iz a cleaner, greener, leaner plase. With the musty rotting bulk uv the past no longer burdening the world with its moribund old-think, a brilliant new era beginz.
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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby Poodle » Fri Aug 07, 2015 3:02 pm

The Nooalf Revolution Global Reformation Army?

But you've written it in Standard English, JO. I think you may not be treating this vital topic with the seriousness it obviously deserves.

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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby JO 753 » Fri Aug 07, 2015 3:47 pm

Just trying to eaze the tranzition a little for you.
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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby JO 753 » Fri Aug 07, 2015 3:52 pm

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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby JO 753 » Sat Aug 08, 2015 4:23 pm

Yes Monster, I'm joking. The point iz that the history uv English iz not jepordized by the Nooalf English based international spelling system. It will alwayz be there for anybody who carez to look at it.

We dont need to fors every new jenerationz to drag the burden uv past mistakes into the future.
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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby Poodle » Sat Aug 08, 2015 4:39 pm

Question for you, JO - you don't post in Nooalf or English. You use a half-way house and you've explained why elsewhere. What I want to know is how easy that is for you? You've been doing it for so long - is it now second nature or do you have to think about it?

EDIT: And is there a half-way house vocabulary or do you do it on the run? (Example - jepordized/jeperdized?).

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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby JO 753 » Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:44 pm

Second nature. No standard. I just type along without paying too much attention to 'proper' spelling and fonetisizing wordz a little. Its interesting that z insted uv s iz the most common thing. How long ago wuz z invented? I know therez an 'a' sumwer in 'jepordize' but its obviously superfluous, so I didnt bother trying to type it. Occasionally wen I run across sumthing I cant remember that duznt look like it will be obvious for the correct English readerz, I mite look it up.
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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby Austin Harper » Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:06 pm

Z comes from the Hebrew/Phoenician zayin so it is very old.
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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby scrmbldggs » Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:15 pm

Just zayin'. :-P
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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby Poodle » Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:27 pm

It's astounding that they knew we'd need it.

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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby JO 753 » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:27 pm

Weird.

I updated the 3rd Debunk paje several yirz ago, maybe 2012, 2013, but now its back to 2007 az the last update. It wuz a new 'argument' that sumwun on LinkedIn came up with conserning the effect a different spelling system woud hav on where a story woud go. (different path, different destination)

I thot maybe the hosting service had 'restored' it after sumthing got chanjed, so I looked on my computer and its also the 2007 version. Same on my old comp.

I thot I'd mentioned it here, but coudnt find anything in this topic.

Maybe its wun uv the differensez frum the universe I wuz in back then.
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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby JO 753 » Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:26 am

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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby JO 753 » Fri Oct 09, 2015 7:11 pm

An amuzing battle on the Webdev forum: Muneepenee vs xu Gate Keeperz

The guy seemz to be the poster child for dislexic genius jujing by hiz website.
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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby landrew » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:19 am

JO 753 wrote:An amuzing battle on the Webdev forum: Muneepenee vs xu Gate Keeperz

The guy seemz to be the poster child for dislexic genius jujing by hiz website.

My opinion hasn't changed. I wish you luck, because that's all you'll have.
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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby JO 753 » Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:57 am

landrew wrote:My opinion hasn't changed.


Naturally. Thats the primary symptom uv sement hed syndrome.

I wish you luck, because that's all you'll have.


You hav that rong. I hav no luck. I hav lojik & facts, wich humanz are immune to.
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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby JO 753 » Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:59 am

Good to hav you back. Who iz your avatar?
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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby landrew » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:07 pm

JO 753 wrote:
landrew wrote:My opinion hasn't changed.


Naturally. Thats the primary symptom uv sement hed syndrome.

I wish you luck, because that's all you'll have.


.... I hav lojik & facts, wich humanz are immune to.


That I agree with, verified by over 6000 discussions I've had on this forum. No amount of logic or evidence can dislodge a position of denial, based on a fear of mind-changing evidence.
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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby landrew » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:10 pm

JO 753 wrote:Good to hav you back. Who iz your avatar?

Harley.
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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby landrew » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:20 pm

JO 753 wrote:
landrew wrote:My opinion hasn't changed.


Naturally. Thats the primary symptom uv sement hed syndrome.

I wish you luck, because that's all you'll have.


You hav that rong. I hav no luck. I hav lojik & facts, wich humanz are immune to.

Actually, I'm in favor of spelling reform, but it also has to be standardized, which is the fatal flaw in your concept. Your words are easier for you, but no one else. It takes extra time and comprehension to decipher your words. A bit annoying.

Spelling was standardized in the English language when it was obvious that reading was more difficult when words are spelled differently by everyone. It wasn't the government's job to standardize spelling (in England at least) but it was accomplished when dictionaries were published.

So get busy and write a Nooalf dictionary, elsewise, there's no hope of anything happening.
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Re: Opinions on Nooalf

Postby JO 753 » Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:03 pm

Thats not a fatal flaw, its a feature. There can be a standard spelling that woud be used in formal writing, but it woud be based on the standard pronunciation. Plus, you coud spell az you speak wen you want.

The real standard is the letter=sound relation. Thats wut is missing in regular English that caused it to be such a mess.

A dictionary iz a huje project. Its your idea, so you hav to do it. I can pay you room & board. ( I know 'room' meanz a plase to liv, but I dont know wut 'board' amounts to. Your uniform will be a black monk's robe with a twine belt. Hours are dawn till dusk with a 45 minit break at noon. 6 daze a week and on the Sabbath you will sharpen pensilz, defrazz quillz, clean & blot the press blocks, etc. ) Get cracking! 1st thing iz to learn Nooalf!
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