Art???????????????

Methods and means of supporting critical thinking in education
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OlegTheBatty
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Re: Art???????????????

Postby OlegTheBatty » Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:20 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Yeah, I wish I still had that box of pulp scifi.

But I do get tired of the party line when it comes art these days. I think the lame have overcome the field.

Sturgeon's Law.

There has always been a {!#%@} of crap. The older stuff disappears because it is crap, giving the false impression that older stuff was better.
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Re: Art???????????????

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:23 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Yeah, I wish I still had that box of pulp scifi.

But I do get tired of the party line when it comes art these days. I think the lame have overcome the field.

Sturgeon's Law.

There has always been a {!#%@} of crap. The older stuff disappears because it is crap, giving the false impression that older stuff was better.

A big part of the problem is the discovery principle. An art "critic" can get famous for "discovering" a new "artist". So they find someone and flog their works. The Emperor's New Clothes effect sets in. And presto!, just like the Kardashians, the clown is a famous artist.
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Re: Art???????????????

Postby OlegTheBatty » Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:29 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
OlegTheBatty wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Yeah, I wish I still had that box of pulp scifi.

But I do get tired of the party line when it comes art these days. I think the lame have overcome the field.

Sturgeon's Law.

There has always been a {!#%@} of crap. The older stuff disappears because it is crap, giving the false impression that older stuff was better.

A big part of the problem is the discovery principle. An art "critic" can get famous for "discovering" a new "artist". So they find someone and flog their works. The Emperor's New Clothes effect sets in. And presto!, just like the Kardashians, the clown is a famous artist.

Art appreciation, like the art itself, is 95% crap. Pretentiousness runs rampant.

I think that the ability of the pretentious to influence others is more important then the ability of the artist to influence others. Eventually, though, the good stuff endures while the crap disappears.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

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Re: Art???????????????

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:32 pm

"99% of everything is crap." This include modern art.
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Re: Art???????????????

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:53 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:A big part of the problem is the discovery principle. An art "critic" can get famous for "discovering" a new "artist".
You are spot on. It's the agents that commission on the sale, at rates up to 30%, that push crap. However managers of Rock bands also take 20% commission and they have pushed more crap onto the public than art dealers.

I guess the two rules remains,

1) if people want to buy crap, it's their right.

2) If I can make a buck, selling crap to those people, that's my right.
:D
Last edited by Matthew Ellard on Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Art???????????????

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:56 pm

And if they try to tell me that {!#%@} is art then I have the right to set their nose hair on fire.
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Re: Art???????????????

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Sep 13, 2016 12:34 am

Makes me wonder what you'd do to one like this. :?
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Re: Art???????????????

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Sep 13, 2016 12:39 am

scrmbldggs wrote:Makes me wonder what you'd do to one like this. :?

I don't destroy people's property. It's their cross to bear if other people see the junk they buy and judge them based on that. ;)
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Re: Art???????????????

Postby Gord » Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:20 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
OlegTheBatty wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Yeah, I wish I still had that box of pulp scifi.

But I do get tired of the party line when it comes art these days. I think the lame have overcome the field.

Sturgeon's Law.

There has always been a {!#%@} of crap. The older stuff disappears because it is crap, giving the false impression that older stuff was better.

A big part of the problem is the discovery principle. An art "critic" can get famous for "discovering" a new "artist". So they find someone and flog their works. The Emperor's New Clothes effect sets in. And presto!, just like the Kardashians, the clown is a famous artist.

So what do you think of clothing fashions?

http://www.boohoo.com/usa/clothing/newin/icat/newin

(I mean, apart from the obvious fact that fashion models are dead inside their soulless eyes.)
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Re: Art???????????????

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:22 am

"Fashion is insanity that covers the genitals."

The problem with "fashion" is that too much of it is designed by guys to look good on their boyfriends.
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Re: Art???????????????

Postby Gord » Tue Sep 13, 2016 12:10 pm

I only ever hear about female fashion designers. I guess the male fashion designers are too passé.
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Re: Art???????????????

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Sep 13, 2016 12:17 pm

Gord wrote:I only ever hear about female fashion designers. I guess the male fashion designers are too passé.

It has been a while since I went shopping for a dress...
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Re: Art???????????????

Postby Lance Kennedy » Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:35 pm

Gord wrote:I only ever hear about female fashion designers. I guess the male fashion designers are too passé.


That is because their maleness is definitely debatable.

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Re: Art???????????????

Postby Poodle » Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:52 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:There has always been a {!#%@} of crap. The older stuff disappears because it is crap, giving the false impression that older stuff was better.


I'd go with this.

But is that a metric {!#%@}?

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Re: Art???????????????

Postby Venerable Kwan Tam Woo » Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:37 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:http://i.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/arts/84023578/colin-mccahon-painting-sells-for-135m--officially-nzs-most-expensive-artwork

Is it just me, or does the artwork in the reference above appear to be something that could be done by the average ten year old? And yet it fetched over a million dollars at auction.


It's not just you. The best thing that can be said about Modern "Art" is that it's a good way for rich people to launder money. That example you cite is actually pretty mild - I've seen pieces that look like they could have been done by 4 year olds that were sold for tens of millions of dollars.

The chief function of the Modern Art racket is to turn people off high cultural pursuits. When a person is repeatedly told that "artworks" which are quite literally pieces of {!#%@} represent the very epitome of human creativity, then they tend to react in one of two ways:

  1. They convince themselves that this absurd lie is the truth, and become part of the Modern Art propaganda machine; or
  2. They throw their hands up in the air, quietly mutter to themselves that they don't understand it, and go watch the latest Transformers movie instead.

When the people become turned off by cultural refinement, they also become less interested in cultivating their intellectual capabilities generally and more preoccupied with cheap quick sensual gratification. Consequently they become easier to control for governments, corporations and NGOs. This dynamic is amplified when the State gets involved in art funding, whereby the pseudo-intellectuals who went with option 1 facilitate a giant taxpayer-funded circle-jerk in the Art Community by joining the group-thinking art bureaucracies which commission more of the same crap - and woe unto any 'ignorant uncultured boor' who questions their decisions to fund the construction/display of useless, expensive and dispiriting eyesores in public spaces!
Last edited by Venerable Kwan Tam Woo on Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Art???????????????

Postby Venerable Kwan Tam Woo » Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:09 am

Thylacine wrote:There are lots of definitions in a dictionary, but for the purpose of answering your question, art is whatever one chooses to think of as artistic. Art to one person might not be art to the next. Modern art, it appears, isn't artistic to many here.


Modern "Art" isn't artistic to anyone who hasn't been brainwashed by peer pressure into believing otherwise.

Here are the definitions of "art" that come up in Google:

  1. the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.
  2. the various branches of creative activity, such as painting, music, literature, and dance.
  3. subjects of study primarily concerned with human creativity and social life, such as languages, literature, and history (as contrasted with scientific or technical subjects).
  4. a skill at doing a specified thing, typically one acquired through practice.

The first thing I notice about these definitions is that none of them say anything about art being "personal", "subjective", or "whatever you want to be". Now leaving aside definitions 2 and 3, which are clearly not relevant to the question at hand, the definition of art can be consolidated into:

The expression or application of imagination and creative skill acquired through practice to produce works of beauty or emotional power.

Or, to put it another way, a work of art is production of primarily aesthetic value which is beyond both the creative and technical capability of a non-artist like myself. The vast majority of so-called Modern Art does not fall into this category, even for non-artists who happen to be preschoolers.
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Re: Art???????????????

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:15 am

Venerable Kwan Tam Woo wrote:Modern "Art" isn't artistic to anyone who hasn't been brainwashed by peer pressure into believing otherwise.
When do you think Modern art commenced?

Are you saying the French Impressionists were a result of French people being brainwashed by peer pressure into liking artwork, refused by the upper class academies?
:lol:

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Re: Art???????????????

Postby Angel » Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:20 am

I see it as a more valuable piece of
cultural history than art itself.
To be or not to be?
To believe or
Not to believe?
To be live or
Not to be live?
To exist or
Not to exist?
What was the question?

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Re: Art???????????????

Postby Venerable Kwan Tam Woo » Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:25 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Venerable Kwan Tam Woo wrote:Modern "Art" isn't artistic to anyone who hasn't been brainwashed by peer pressure into believing otherwise.
When do you think Modern art commenced?

Are you saying the French Impressionists were a result of French people being brainwashed by peer pressure into liking artwork, refused by the upper class academies?
:lol:


No, I'm saying that pieces of crap like the one cited in the OP are. Lumping the French Impressionists into the same category as that is like lumping Oscar Wilde novels into the same category as comic books.
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Re: Art???????????????

Postby Gord » Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:46 am

Hey, Oscar Wilde isn't that bad. He's at least as entertaining as...well, some comic books.
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Re: Art???????????????

Postby scrmbldggs » Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:53 am

Hi, Io the lurker.

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Re: Art???????????????

Postby Gord » Sun Oct 09, 2016 3:31 am

"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
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Re: Art???????????????

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Oct 09, 2016 11:30 am

Philosophy? Sounds more like indoctrination.
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Re: Art???????????????

Postby Gord » Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:36 pm

That's just because there's a chain involved.
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Re: Art???????????????

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Oct 09, 2016 9:04 pm

Gord wrote:That's just because there's a chain involved.

Better used on a bicycle.
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Re: Art???????????????

Postby Gord » Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:24 am

"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
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