A question concerning universities

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Fehafare
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A question concerning universities

Postby Fehafare » Wed May 13, 2015 7:57 pm

So, i have a question, one that i ignored for some time but that has worried me a bit more lately. I'm 19 years old and i am about to start going to university and my question is, are western universities going down the crapper essentially?

I don't really mean that in a way that questions the level of standards that are held by universities but rather the general attitude there. Lately i have seen an absurd amount of articles that genuinely make me question if i would want to be part of any instituion like that.

I am talking about things like a band being banned from performing because "it had too many white members", sudents asking for default passing grades because they were busy with protests, professors not being allowed to use the words "rape" or anything similar when discussing law because it might "be triggering", people complaining about their books for the curriculum being writen by "old white dudes" and the like. The list goes on. More or less all cases where political corrects and oversensitivity are placed before well education.

My question is since i am not really that far off to the west (i'm middle to east europe), is this social justice behavior a rising trend at universities or was i just exposed to a lot of rare crap at once?

Thanks for any and all replies.

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Re: A question concerning universities

Postby Austin Harper » Thu May 14, 2015 2:31 am

I am not aware of anything of the sort you describe happening when I was at university (2004-2008). That sort of thing may occur from time to time at one university or another around the world but it's hardly the norm.
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Re: A question concerning universities

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Thu May 14, 2015 10:58 am

Fehafare wrote:
My question is since i am not really that far off to the west (i'm middle to east europe), is this social justice behavior a rising trend at universities or was i just exposed to a lot of rare crap at once?

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Re: A question concerning universities

Postby xouper » Thu May 14, 2015 11:45 am

Fehafare wrote:So, i have a question, one that i ignored for some time but that has worried me a bit more lately. I'm 19 years old and i am about to start going to university and my question is, are western universities going down the crapper essentially?

Perhaps a more useful question to ask is, "If I go to this university, will I get the education I need?"

From my personal experience, the quality of your education is more dependent on the effort you put into it, rather than the reputation of the university, or the quirks of certain professors, or the shenanigans of some of the students.

You may find this interesting:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2015/05/05/google-hr-boss-we-dont-care-where-you-went-to-college/

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Re: A question concerning universities

Postby Poodle » Thu May 14, 2015 12:07 pm

Fehafare wrote:So, i have a question, one that i ignored for some time but that has worried me a bit more lately. I'm 19 years old and i am about to start going to university and my question is, are western universities going down the crapper essentially?

I don't really mean that in a way that questions the level of standards that are held by universities but rather the general attitude there. Lately i have seen an absurd amount of articles that genuinely make me question if i would want to be part of any instituion like that.

I am talking about things like a band being banned from performing because "it had too many white members", sudents asking for default passing grades because they were busy with protests, professors not being allowed to use the words "rape" or anything similar when discussing law because it might "be triggering", people complaining about their books for the curriculum being writen by "old white dudes" and the like. The list goes on. More or less all cases where political corrects and oversensitivity are placed before well education.

My question is since i am not really that far off to the west (i'm middle to east europe), is this social justice behavior a rising trend at universities or was i just exposed to a lot of rare crap at once?

Thanks for any and all replies.


You're not describing what's happening in universities - you're describing what's happening in Europe as a whole, and I know exactly what you mean. It's becoming increasingly difficult to do anything in any circumstances without tripping over the very vociferous political correctness army. But, at the moment, that's going to happen wherever you go and whatever you do.

Social liberalism is always good but, as in all other circumstances, there's always going to be a group of people who insist upon taking it to extremes and, as usual, they will disappear given time.

Don't judge universities by external social circumstance. If you have the opportunity to get onto the course you want, you will regret it for ever more if you don't take that opportunity. Bugger what anyone else is shouting about - do yourself a favour, get onto that course and make the best you can of it. A modicum of hard work and a degree can move mountains for you. I wish you the best of luck.

EDIT: Don't do sociology.

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Re: A question concerning universities

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri May 15, 2015 1:12 am

Austin Harper wrote:I am not aware of anything of the sort you describe happening when I was at university (2004-2008). That sort of thing may occur from time to time at one university or another around the world but it's hardly the norm.


I agree. The top universities in Australia are very dull places. It's as though they want student to concentrate on getting high marks,compared to other universities, so as to attract more students. (Bastards) My fear is that Australian universities are getting too commercial.

I don't know what it is like in the USA, but in Australia we use the old English system of offering out university positions to all our neighbours, to create international political harmony. The lion's share students at Australian universities are Chinese, Indian, Malay, Fijian and not Aussie.

Universities are all about self discipline. Either you study really really really really hard or you don't. It is some of the children of rich foreigners who generally don't do any hard study.

(Universities were free when I left school. My two early degrees were free. My law degree at UNSW in the 90's only cost about $35,000, which I was allowed to write off my tax anyway, as I was practising accountant. I feel very sorry for young students today who need to borrow up to $70,000 to get a law degree.)

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Re: A question concerning universities

Postby Frank Hoffman » Fri May 15, 2015 3:23 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:Universities are all about self discipline.

xouper wrote:From my personal experience, the quality of your education is more dependent on the effort you put into it, rather than the reputation of the university...

That has been my experience, both as a student (long ago), and as an instructor.

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Re: A question concerning universities

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri May 15, 2015 3:52 am

Frank Hoffman wrote: That has been my experience, both as a student (long ago), and as an instructor.


I owned a small accounting firm and decided to get a law degree to expand the client base.

At the end of year one I failed a module. I rang the faculty supervisor and he told me I was lazy but having a lovely time. After that, I would work 8am-6pm then study 6.30 to 9.30 Monday to Friday. I either worked or studied 10am to 5pm on Saturdays and Sundays. No holidays for five years. I developed a short term exam anxiety disorder before my finals after five years and saw a psychiatrist once. ( "breathing exercises") I remember putting my pen down after my final exam and just sitting there. I took that afternoon off. I felt very strange. .

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Re: A question concerning universities

Postby Frank Hoffman » Fri May 15, 2015 1:46 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote: I either worked or studied 10am to 5pm on Saturdays and Sundays. No holidays for five years. I developed a short term exam anxiety disorder...

Point well taken. There is a need for moderation and balance, but when one is within the experience, it is often difficult to know how to do that.

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Re: A question concerning universities

Postby Fehafare » Sat May 16, 2015 12:36 pm

Internet's been acting up lately so couldn't get to responding to this thread. Glad to see there's been a few replies here at least, thanks everyone. Overall it sounds to me like I just got a lot of individual rare cases thrown at me at the same time, which is a relief i'd say, but at the same time it kinda worries me that it's a rising trend or something.

Hopefully the world isn't completely going nuts and these things will be happening less often rather than more.

Poodle wrote:You're not describing what's happening in universities - you're describing what's happening in Europe as a whole, and I know exactly what you mean. It's becoming increasingly difficult to do anything in any circumstances without tripping over the very vociferous political correctness army. But, at the moment, that's going to happen wherever you go and whatever you do.

Social liberalism is always good but, as in all other circumstances, there's always going to be a group of people who insist upon taking it to extremes and, as usual, they will disappear given time.

Don't judge universities by external social circumstance. If you have the opportunity to get onto the course you want, you will regret it for ever more if you don't take that opportunity. Bugger what anyone else is shouting about - do yourself a favour, get onto that course and make the best you can of it. A modicum of hard work and a degree can move mountains for you. I wish you the best of luck.

EDIT: Don't do sociology.


Honestly i wouldn't call it so much social liberalism as much as social marxism at this point. I've considered myself to be something of a left wing liberal but the more i look at it and think about it that seems to only be the case when looking at the state in America, but when i look at the state of left to right in the whole world i kinda find myself in the middle of it.

I could probably avoid all of the crap by simply staying in my country. I don't think too highly of it but on this topic it's actually rather nice. There's some tension between muslims and christians, but "tension" meaning jerkassery kinda like a totally non threatening cold war, and even that comes from mostly a few individuals rather than the whole population. People in my old school both teachers and students were atheists and there was no big fuss about it and one time our biology substitute teacher was a covered muslim woman who without any problems taught Darwinian evolution without involving any of her own beliefs.

Point is, wouldn't be too bad here, since it doesn't seem to be too socially liberal nor too conservative and rigid. However as i already said the country is kinda crap in most other areas and i'm not what you'd call a patriot, and besides that the choice of universities i have here isn't all that great. So my best bet would actually be to go to either Austria (country has good relations with Austria and most of the students from here get benefits there, i'm also fluent in German so that's a plus) or England (where i would like to go, but is expensive as hell so...) and i get the feeling that if i were to go there i could face these kinds of problems.

And heh, would never do sociology. Honestly right now i'm thinking law, criminology or strangely enough genetics/biology, mostly cause i always like the subject however i also dislike chemistry paradoxically so not too sure how that would work out.

Either way thanks for the tips.

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Re: A question concerning universities

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun May 17, 2015 6:21 am

Fehafare wrote:I could probably avoid all of the crap by simply staying in my country.
It's OK to say where you are. This forum is hosted by an American educational organisation, The Skeptic Society, however the forum members are from everywhere on the planet and are leftist, rightist and middle of the road. Different opinions, and people from other countries are always welcome. It's how we learn about other opinions.

Are you are former eastern block European?

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Re: A question concerning universities

Postby Fehafare » Sun May 17, 2015 9:22 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:It's OK to say where you are. This forum is hosted by an American educational organisation, The Skeptic Society, however the forum members are from everywhere on the planet and are leftist, rightist and middle of the road. Different opinions, and people from other countries are always welcome. It's how we learn about other opinions.

Are you are former eastern block European?


Oh i know, it's a skeptic forum after all. I don't have problems with people knowing where i'm from, i just usually assume that they don't really know the country anyway so if they don't ask i don't bother pointing it out.

I'm from Bosnia and Herzegovina, so technically speaking i'm not eastern nor western block, since the country it was part of Yugoslavia, was part of the unaffiliated movement. Though communism was there it wasn't really like in the SSSR. As i said i'm not really a patriot so i don't really think too highly of this country either way.

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Re: A question concerning universities

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon May 18, 2015 12:09 am

Fehafare wrote: I'm from Bosnia and Herzegovina, so technically speaking i'm not eastern nor western block, since the country it was part of Yugoslavia, was part of the unaffiliated movement. Though communism was there it wasn't really like in the SSSR. As i said i'm not really a patriot so i don't really think too highly of this country either way.


I had to pass through Bosnia Herzegovina, to get to Zagreb from South Croatia. ( I like visiting medieval ports. I'm Australian. Australia is full of Croatians ).

In the 90's I had many Slovakian friends who were upset at being stuck in Slovakian universities, when Czechoslovakia split into two. As they were medical students, they were more concerned, if their qualifications would allow them to practice medicine in Germany and other foreign countries.

I suggest to you that your prime concern is whether various Bosnian University degrees are recognised internationally. You should choose to graduate at a university which allows you to remain internationally mobile in your ongoing career and studies.

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Re: A question concerning universities

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon May 18, 2015 12:18 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:...As they were medical students, they were more concerned, if their qualifications would allow them to practice medicine in Germany and other foreign countries...


...and they all became médecins sans frontières. :-P

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Re: A question concerning universities

Postby ross03 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:03 am

he quality of your education is more dependent on the effort you put into it, rather than the reputation of the university, or the quirks of certain professors, or the shenanigans of some of the students.

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Re: A question concerning universities

Postby Gord » Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:05 am

xouper wrote:he quality of your education is more dependent on the effort you put into it, rather than the reputation of the university, or the quirks of certain professors, or the shenanigans of some of the students.

ross03 wrote:he quality of your education is more dependent on the effort you put into it, rather than the reputation of the university, or the quirks of certain professors, or the shenanigans of some of the students.

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Re: A question concerning universities

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:08 am

Gord wrote: Yeah, I don't think you're a real boy, Pinocchio.
Well spotted Gord! :lol:

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Re: A question concerning universities

Postby scrmbldggs » Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:10 am

Links will follow?

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Re: A question concerning universities

Postby Gord » Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:17 am

scrmbldggs wrote:Links will follow?

They'll be added to the signature at a later date, I'd bet.
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Re: A question concerning universities

Postby Pyrrho » Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:32 pm

Not gonna happen. Spammer banned.

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Re: A question concerning universities

Postby gorgeous » Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:11 pm

It is true many universities have become far too overly indulgent with an extreme liberal agenda...safe rooms, therapy dogs for Trump presidency election trauma....obsession with anyone at any time being slightly offended...they need more outspoken anti-snowflakes to show how absurd they are acting...it is not the real world... ------- Missouri & Yale Student Protests -- Campus Madness Is the Work of ...


www.nationalreview.com/.../left-has-no- ... ess-camp...

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Political Correctness May Be Going Too Far on College Campuses ...



www1.cbn.com/.../political-correctness-may-be-going-too-far-on-college...


Oct 29, 2016 - Political correctness has infiltrated every facet of learning and life on college campuses, even down to the type of Halloween costumes students
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Re: A question concerning universities

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:56 pm

gorgeous wrote:It is true many universities have become far too overly indulgent with an extreme liberal agenda...
Gorgeous, you complete moron. You haven't been to high school, let alone visited a university. How would you know? :lol:


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