We should be using gamification in education!

Methods and means of supporting critical thinking in education
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We should be using gamification in education!

Postby Coveny » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:58 am

If you aren’t familiar with gamification it is where you turn learning into a game. This can anything from leveling up as you pass courses to the content being in the form of a game. You may have seen some of the children’s games where balloons fall that have math problems and when the child gets the math correct it pops the balloon. Gamifying learning can get much more complex though, and it has shown many superior qualities to regular learning systems.

Gamification help with motivation:
“Some of the best examples of gamification are exergames that encourage exercise by turning physical activity into a game.”
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10 ... 6813480996

Fortune 500 companies use games to engage employees:
“The list is practically endless. Google, Microsoft, Cisco, Deloitte, Sun Microsystems, IBM, L’Oreal, Canon, Lexus, FedEx, UPS, Wells Fargo and countless others have embraced games to make workers more satisfied, better-trained and focused on their jobs, as well as to improve products and services.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danschawbe ... 5459032f3f

Gamification has proven its ability to motivate and engage and our education system in America really needs the help. When you look at USA ranking in comparison with the other developed countries of the world we continue to fall further and further behind:
“One of the biggest cross-national tests is the Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA), which every three years measures reading ability, math and science literacy and other key skills among 15-year-olds in dozens of developed and developing countries. The most recent PISA results, from 2015, placed the U.S. an unimpressive 38th out of 71 countries in math and 24th in science. Among the 35 members of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which sponsors the PISA initiative, the U.S. ranked 30th in math and 19th in science.”
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... h-science/

From a very good article which gives several examples of gamification as well as some of the drawbacks and roadblocks gamification can meet:
“The combination of an increased focus on student engagement and the possibilities provided by digital learning make gamification a powerful tool for educators.” and “The principles of gamification have been fully embraced by a school in two cases, at Quest to Learn (Q2L) in New York City and CICS ChicagoQuest.”
https://www.worldgovernmentsummit.org/a ... 0000a7ddb6

If we want to reverse our negative trend of falling further and further behind on the global educational comparison charts we need a radical overhaul of our education system here in America. Digital is the obvious answer because not only does it low costs to update material and provide customized education it also increases motivation and engagement with the students. If America wants to take back the lead we need to start now.
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Re: We should be using gamification in education!

Postby Poodle » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:42 am

Why should America have all the fun?

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Re: We should be using gamification in education!

Postby ElectricMonk » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:19 am

Plenty of research shows that we learn best when the least depends on the outcome: during fight or flight, there is no time to do anything but the tried&true. When there is little on the line, we can experiment with methods and observe results.
Plenty of School systems do their utmost to do the exact opposite of this.
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Re: We should be using gamification in education!

Postby Coveny » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:45 pm

Poodle wrote:Why should America have all the fun?


Ya well I guess it could be used elsewhere I just live in America...
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Re: We should be using gamification in education!

Postby Nikki Nyx » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:06 pm

Part of the problem with the education system in the US is that all students are treated exactly the same. No efforts are made to encourage the abilities of the "fast learners," and no efforts are made to provide extra help to the "slow learners." The most the "fast learners" can hope for is the existence of AP classes, while the "slow learners" are allowed to move forward whether they've mastered the material or not (peer promotion). This results in the "fast learners" being bored to tears, and the "slow learners" not learning what they should.

Another issue that is ignored is the circadian rhythms of children at various ages. Teenagers become alert much later in the morning than young children, yet they're forced to get up at an ungodly, cow-milking hour for school, while elementary school begins two hours later in the day. You can't force a person to counter their circadian, as we've learned from studies on shift work.
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Re: We should be using gamification in education!

Postby Coveny » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:33 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote:Part of the problem with the education system in the US is that all students are treated exactly the same. No efforts are made to encourage the abilities of the "fast learners," and no efforts are made to provide extra help to the "slow learners." The most the "fast learners" can hope for is the existence of AP classes, while the "slow learners" are allowed to move forward whether they've mastered the material or not (peer promotion). This results in the "fast learners" being bored to tears, and the "slow learners" not learning what they should.


Another perk of gamification is that it's individualized to the learner.
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Re: We should be using gamification in education!

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:42 pm

I went to a Jesuit International School for the Fifth Grade because I was flunking out of regular school. It was known for demanding results. Homework every night, tests and report cards with class standing every week. I started the year at about 52 out of 52. By the end of the year....worked up to #3 or #4.

Then, Ma & Pa moved back to the USA....and I started flunking out again.

Was that a game? If so, what was it?
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Re: We should be using gamification in education!

Postby Nikki Nyx » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:36 pm

Coveny wrote:
Nikki Nyx wrote:Part of the problem with the education system in the US is that all students are treated exactly the same. No efforts are made to encourage the abilities of the "fast learners," and no efforts are made to provide extra help to the "slow learners." The most the "fast learners" can hope for is the existence of AP classes, while the "slow learners" are allowed to move forward whether they've mastered the material or not (peer promotion). This results in the "fast learners" being bored to tears, and the "slow learners" not learning what they should.
Another perk of gamification is that it's individualized to the learner.
True. You can continue to level up even if others in the class aren't. I like the idea, personally, since I'm a lifelong gamer. :mrgreen:

It's certainly a better idea than how my eyes initially read the thread title: "We should be using gammafication in education!" Because making kids into superheroes will solve all of the problems! :lol:
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Re: We should be using gamification in education!

Postby Aztexan » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:42 pm

Nah, Tidepod Man would vanquish them all in the first issue.
trump is literally a piece of {!#%@}.

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Re: We should be using gamification in education!

Postby Coveny » Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:31 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote: True. You can continue to level up even if others in the class aren't. I like the idea, personally, since I'm a lifelong gamer. :mrgreen:

It's certainly a better idea than how my eyes initially read the thread title: "We should be using gammafication in education!" Because making kids into superheroes will solve all of the problems! :lol:


The whole gamma and radioactive bite thing always seems so un-plausible to me. I like the born with it (mutants), the environment (superman), and learned (batman, Dr Strange) angle much more. I want no part of radiation, and that {!#%@} will turn you dead not into a superhero...
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Re: We should be using gamification in education!

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:37 pm

Mutants are born with genetic changes......most likely caused by radiation changing the nucleotides of their dna. The environment can't make a Superman.....its just a placeholder for magic. Learned is where the admirable is...even though its entirely script driven.

What is a Hero?
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Re: We should be using gamification in education!

Postby Coveny » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:00 pm

Mutant does NOT mean most likely radiation changed (even though we eat a bunch of plants that were radiated to create mutations)

Superman is just an example, but the basis is that you are born with these super abilities but they only manifest in a certain environment. (on a different planet, in a different dimension, etc)

I completely agree on learned > all, but disagree that it's script driven. The really good ones are the ones that require self learning and experimentation.

A hero is someone who put themselves in harms way, when they don't have to, to protect/save others.
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Re: We should be using gamification in education!

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:08 pm

Mutations: you are correct. I overstated. thats my contrary gene acting up again. Its my superhuman power.

You call it manifest but a different gravity field (IIRC) would not cause the super powers to emerge...according to any know theoretical process..............so, its magic. The very definition of science we don't understand.

Required?====Yes........by the script. the difference between good and bad comics, movies, and so forth.

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Re: We should be using gamification in education!

Postby Coveny » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:24 pm

So if you were born on a heavy gravity planet, then came to earth and had super strength that would be "magic"? (and seriously it's all magic if you put that definition on it)

Favorite... no, I have favorite topics though. I've been surprised on a few.
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Re: We should be using gamification in education!

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:49 am

Coveny wrote:So if you were born on a heavy gravity planet, then came to earth and had super strength that would be "magic"? (and seriously it's all magic if you put that definition on it)

Favorite... no, I have favorite topics though. I've been surprised on a few.


Well, since gravity has no connection to super powers that I am aware of.........yes, it would be magic...... as in: unexplainable. What we "know" is that a creature from a heavy gravity planet would be more "stout" than one from a lighter gravity environment....so perhaps stronger in some way but offishly slow...... absent some other evolutionary path not known by us. But in the main, for instance: why would less or more gravity cause X-ray Vision? Or lack of penetrability?? Or weakness when close to original planet debris?............... Makes no sense.

Well........I won't pull teeth. Being surprised.............is always a delight.
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Re: We should be using gamification in education!

Postby Coveny » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:54 am

If you were born and grew up on a high gravity planet you would have superhuman strength on this planet. Last time I checked Jessica Jones is considered to have superpowers...
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Re: We should be using gamification in education!

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:03 am

Coveny wrote:If you were born and grew up on a high gravity planet you would have superhuman strength on this planet. Last time I checked Jessica Jones is considered to have superpowers...

Well................its a matter of degree? Perhaps at small increases of gravity you could have a small increase in strength...but at much higher gravities...the structures we know for life tend to break down, like whales on the beach. Life in high gravity might be restricted to life buoyed by water....again...just like the whales.

I suppose, it all depends on just what you are assuming happens in high gravity? I assume such life would be low and squat compared to life in lower gravity.....not good for rapid action in lower gravity.

there was a show on tv about imagined life on other planets. All I remember is the low gravity planets where animals could float around as if filled with helium. They must have had a high gravity situation......but I don't remember it if they did.

I thought JJ lost her super powers and became a detective?..............Not that it mattes.
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Re: We should be using gamification in education!

Postby Coveny » Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:41 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Coveny wrote:If you were born and grew up on a high gravity planet you would have superhuman strength on this planet. Last time I checked Jessica Jones is considered to have superpowers...

Well................its a matter of degree? Perhaps at small increases of gravity you could have a small increase in strength...but at much higher gravities...the structures we know for life tend to break down, like whales on the beach. Life in high gravity might be restricted to life buoyed by water....again...just like the whales.

I suppose, it all depends on just what you are assuming happens in high gravity? I assume such life would be low and squat compared to life in lower gravity.....not good for rapid action in lower gravity.

there was a show on tv about imagined life on other planets. All I remember is the low gravity planets where animals could float around as if filled with helium. They must have had a high gravity situation......but I don't remember it if they did.

I thought JJ lost her super powers and became a detective?..............Not that it mattes.


Obviously it would be to whatever degree provided the most benefit with the least amount of negatives. I mean even a 30% increase would be very impressive.

Nope JJ is both a detective and a mutant. Though the teaser indicates that she was "created" from a near death experience like Deadpool.
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Re: We should be using gamification in education!

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:47 am

Yes....30% would be quite impressive. But, not Superman.

I don't take you "Nope" as responsive to the direction the point was going. "Nope"...... to what????

Jessica Jones (TV Series 2015– ) - IMDb
www.imdb.com/title/tt2357547/

Action · Following the tragic end of her brief superhero career, Jessica Jones tries to rebuild her life as a private investigator, dealing with cases involving people with remarkable abilities in New York City.
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Re: We should be using gamification in education!

Postby Coveny » Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:59 am

Superman was an example. I said super powers. All that means is super human. So 30% would qualify, but that's not the point.

Nope JJ didn't lose her super strength, she's just no longer a part of the defenders, and has moved back into anonymity. She is still superhuman just not a superhero.
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Re: We should be using gamification in education!

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:53 pm

My superpower appears to be derailing threads with humorous comments. All in all, not that useful IRL. I'd rather fly. :mrgreen:
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Re: We should be using gamification in education!

Postby OlegTheBatty » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:00 pm

Aztexan wrote:Nah, Tidepod Man would vanquish them all in the first issue.


Phooey! Tidepod man vanquished Filthyrags Man, after that he was all washed up.
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Re: We should be using gamification in education!

Postby OlegTheBatty » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:05 pm

. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

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Re: We should be using gamification in education!

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:12 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:Back on topic:

How to design games for teaching.
One of my graphic design assignments in college (circa 1984, interestingly) was to create a board game. I based it off the song "Foreign Policy" by the hardcore band FEAR, then named it "Pushbutton Warfare" after my brother's hardcore band. Gameplay was somewhat like Monopoly, except the goal was to destroy all other countries using nuclear weapons. Hardly anyone was amused, sadly. It's a damn shame that some people don't share my twisted sense of humor. :P
Foreign Policy by FEAR
Eliminate the incompetents!
Differences don't exist in harmony!
Survival is superiority.
We don't need no hands across the sea!

We've got...
Foreign policy [x3]

The lines are drawn!
Establish the new order!
Suspect everyone
Know your enemies! Know your enemies!

We've got...
Foreign Policy [x3]

Hatred is purity!
Weakness is disease!
Where we bury you
It's manifest destiny!

We've got...
Foreign Policy [x3]
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Re: We should be using gamification in education!

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:42 pm

Differences don't exist in harmony!


Good line.
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Re: We should be using gamification in education!

Postby Nikki Nyx » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:32 am

Sadly, after years of commenting on society in this manner, FEAR's lead singer, Lee Ving, turned out to be rabidly right wing. I don't get it. You may have seen him in movies; he's had several bit parts. He was Mr. Boddy in Clue, and had minor roles in both Flashdance and Streets of Fire.
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Re: We should be using gamification in education!

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:09 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Differences don't exist in harmony!


Good line.

Thanks for the thanks. It is a good line. Not true.............but a good line. Like everything else, its not the "fact" of a difference.....but what you do with that fact. things happen, we interpret them and usually act accordingly. Aka: its not what happens................BUT HOW WE ACT in response. People tend to think that some "fact" justifies what follows. It never does, as there are 15 in between decisions at play.

But the statement is a door knocker as it stands. The start of a journey...........

Just caught the tail end of "Eric Clapton, Life in 12 Bars" on HBO...the caption stressing his music.......but the video is actually about his yearning for true love. I gotta say it: film notes that Eric and what's her name, George Harrisons Wifey at the time eventually spent the night together and G. Harrison came to collect her and Eric said he was in love with GH's wife. GH said to (Honestly, I just don't remember her name.....not trying to be a pig, I just am) his wifey...."Who you going home with, him or me?" and she answered "Of course, I'm going home with you George." ///// Fine and dandy....but then about two minutes later, the narration in the words of Eric says that what's her name went home with George """""""BECAUSE SHE WAS TOTALLY FAITHFUL TO HIM.""""""""" Huh? film diverts then into the music. We need another film as it goes to the boundary of "love" and tends to back off and flip back to the music. Much is implied.....nothing is delved into. Not that the squeamish side of hooman behavior is all that interesting.......except.....in this case it kinda is...... Great Musicians as everyone involved actually are. Always: more to be told. but "normally" including with Gods, rock or otherwise, screwing your husbands best friend is not being faithful to him.

This is what cross examination or follow up[ questions is all about..................
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Re: We should be using gamification in education!

Postby ElectricMonk » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:43 am

There are a number of awesome apps (in a sea of rubbish) that teach things in sneaky ways.
One of my favorites is DragonBox, which teaches you how to solve equations without you realizing it before it's too late!
Buwahhah!
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Spoiler:
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2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.
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Re: We should be using gamification in education!

Postby Nikki Nyx » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:15 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Differences don't exist in harmony!
Thanks for the thanks. It is a good line. Not true.............but a good line.
True in a Huxleyan or Orwellian way, though.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Like everything else, its not the "fact" of a difference.....but what you do with that fact. things happen, we interpret them and usually act accordingly. Aka: its not what happens................BUT HOW WE ACT in response. People tend to think that some "fact" justifies what follows. It never does, as there are 15 in between decisions at play.
I agree. People also tend to think that acting our their emotions is justified by the preceding fact. It's not, though. The emotion itself is certainly valid; you're entitled to feel however you feel.
"Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge."—Carl Sagan

"Every philosophy is tinged with the coloring of some secret imaginative background, which never emerges explicitly into its train of reasoning."—Alfred North Whitehead

"Knowledge belongs to humanity, and is the torch which illuminates the world."—Louis Pasteur

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Nikki Nyx
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Re: We should be using gamification in education!

Postby Nikki Nyx » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:10 pm

Anyway, back on topic...

When my daughter was a toddler, back in the days of diskettes, I shopped at a place that offered shareware and freeware. I bought her several teaching games, which she loved. (I didn't rely on them, however, but spent time with her at the 3' x 2' chalkboard I also bought, as well as making use of workbooks and flashcards. She learned how to read before kindergarten, and was a bit baffled that most of her friends couldn't yet read.)

Naturally, I also bought games for myself. :mrgreen: That's how I was introduced to Duke Nukem (back when it was a side-scroller) and Jill of the Jungle, among others.
"Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge."—Carl Sagan

"Every philosophy is tinged with the coloring of some secret imaginative background, which never emerges explicitly into its train of reasoning."—Alfred North Whitehead

"Knowledge belongs to humanity, and is the torch which illuminates the world."—Louis Pasteur

The abnormal thinker
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Re: We should be using gamification in education!

Postby The abnormal thinker » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:50 am

I agree that gamification can be useful for education in general.. But what about using gamification itself to teach critical thinking?

To teach its fundamentals via a game with a feedback system that makes you "lose" when your argument includes a logical fallacy (for example)?

I think that one of the biggest difficulties with teaching this thought structure, unlike teaching other, non-controversial topics, is that it's easy for the student to think, "hey, says who that doing that in an argument is wrong? You can't prove that!"

Games make it much easier to understand what makes logical fallacies what they are (wrong logical inferences), although I'm not sure if this can apply to scientific skepticism as well, because when a student loses at a game because he didn't check a scientific article's "peer reviews", it's not obvious what's wrong in that..

I know of 2 "arguing" video games which do exactly what I described above, both of which are free and available online, one is called "Socrates Jones: Pro Philosopher" (https://www.kongregate.com/games/chiefw ... hilosopher) and the other is simply called "Arguing Game" (https://www.gamedev.net/projects/146-arguing-game), and they've got some interesting mechanics. Those games have feedback systems that make it easy to understand when the player's choice presents a good use of critical thinking or not. One of them focuses on philosophical arguments, while the other one has both that and scientific arguments, and in both of them, good use of critical thinking somehow rewards gives the player a certain "reward", while the opposite "punishes" him.

The bottom line is, I think those games can be very useful to teach the fundamentals of critical thinking in a much more effective and easier (and even fun) way rather than giving presentations or posting articles on the matter.

BTW I also saw another (free & online) debate game called "argument champion" (http://www.argumentchampion.com/) where you form arguments by choosing words from "word clouds", but I don't think it is anyhow related to critical thinking.. But maybe I'm wrong?

Maybe I should start a new thread about that, because I haven't seen anyone on this forum ever talk about that, and I can easily 1000+ words on how each of those games work and discuss them endlessly and it'll spam this thread lol. What do you think?


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