Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Lausten » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:26 pm

Jim Steele wrote:
Lausten wrote:Not on topic, but on the topic of Jim and his belief system; I heard this podcast yesterday, linked at the top of my blog.

http://winter60.blogspot.com/2018/03/be ... human.html

They talk about belief within the context of church, but it's the same for denial of AGW. As Cass Midgely calls it, it's the "helpless situation" you get into, when anyone who disagrees with you is just proving your point. In Christianity it's "persecuted for my namesake" for Jim it's they "attack logic and reason in order to shoot the messenger".


Damn Lausten, You have been working awfully hard to fabricate an ugly narrative about me, that does not fit reality.

It was Lance who criticized "logic and reason", and indeed it was in order to shoot the messenger. And everyone of your posts Lausten have all been personal attack as well.

When I point out these actions, you try to defend your mean-spiritedness devoid of scientific discussion by spinning it as my delusions of persecution. ROTFLMAO

Just like you latched on to my fragment of a sentence, "the consensus is the data", you've latched on to Lance's "logic and reason", which of course he explained in the very next post, just like I tried to school you on what scientific consensus means. But, that went nowhere, kind of like this conversation.
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Jim Steele » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:59 pm

Lausten wrote:[ just like I tried to school you on what scientific consensus means


ROTFLMAO!
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Jim Steele » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:18 pm

Lance pushed empiricism and denigrated logic. And Lausten thinks Lance is justified for attacking logic and reason (Personally I think Lausten will agree with whatever attacks are against me) so let examine empiricism vs logic.

The Netherlands has had its coldest March in 100 years. Based on empiricism it is colder now than it was 100 years ago. Global warming logic denies this empirical knowledge and says the earth is warming! Thus we can conclude that global warming logic has led to faulty conclusions.

In Ireland if feels colder than normal as "Temperatures will plunge by more than 10C from milder conditions earlier this week as many parades took place today in maximum temperatures of 1C. Overnight temperatures will plunge to as low as -5C."

Again based on this empirical evidence the climate is getting colder!
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Lance Kennedy » Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:52 am

Global warming creates greater variability.
Here where I live, we have just been through the remnants of not one, but four tropical hurricanes over 5 weeks. Hurricanes Geta, Fehi, Hola, and Linda, have all passed over or close to my home. I can assure you that this never happened 50 years ago. I am presently listening to the strong winds that represent the last of hurricane Linda. Finagle only knows what will hit us next .

Having a cold winter is not evidence against global warming. It is evidence of unstable weather.

Here in NZ, we have had a VERY unstable summer. The sea temperatures have been 5 Celsius warmer than normal, which is the reason why we have been hit with SO many damn hurricanes ! February was our wettest one since records began. Global warming predicts more moisture in the air and thus more precipitation.

Face, it Jim. You are engaged in an exercise of cherry picking data to back up your crackpot theories.

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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Lausten » Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:04 pm

Jim Steele wrote:When I point out these actions, you try to defend your mean-spiritedness devoid of scientific discussion by spinning it as my delusions of persecution. ROTFLMAO


What I "attack" are your methods. This is a perfectly scientific thing to do. If I showed a graph of some kind and it backed up something I said, you would be right to ask what data was behind the graph and how I collected that data. If I complained that you were attacking me by asking those questions, then you would be right to suspect I didn't know what I was talking about or perhaps I had just made up the graph with no data at all. You could get personal at that point, questioning my motives since I wasn't offering the evidence, but wouldn't it just sort of be obvious at that point that I'd relinquished any grip on reality and abandoned reasonable conversation all together?
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Jim Steele » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:18 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:Face, it Jim. You are engaged in an exercise of cherry picking data to back up your crackpot theories.


Indeed Lance all your posts on this thread have nothing to do with the good science I report, but your obsession with trying to characterize me as cherrypicking and a crackpot. You goal is not to promote science but to bash any skeptic. That's what makes this forum so odd. Despite being called the Skeptics Forum, it is inhabited by people with very little scientific knowledge but obsessively intent on bashing skeptics.

Cleary you are unaware of climate history. Michael Mann has written about the Little Ice Age, and how it was a period of greatest climate variability. An even blanket of CO2 is not conducive to creating more extreme gradients. Since 1990 when the Pacific Decadal Oscillation was first described, scientists have reported 60 year cycles of weather and hurricanes. There is NO trend in tropical storms and cyclone energy. Face it Lance, You really don't know what you are talking about. You simply rely on conspiracy theories and personal attacks!

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Last edited by Jim Steele on Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Jim Steele » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:21 pm

Lausten wrote:you would be right to suspect I didn't know what I was talking about or perhaps I had just made up the graph with no data at all. You could get personal at that point, questioning my motives since I wasn't offering the evidence, but wouldn't it just sort of be obvious at that point that I'd relinquished any grip on reality and abandoned reasonable conversation all together?


Lausten that is an excellent self analysis.

So please, try to find your way back to reasonable conversation based on evidence.

And remember, the consensus is not evidence.
“In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." Galileo

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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Lance Kennedy » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:00 pm

The difference between you and I, Jim, is arrogance.

I consider what true experts write as being what I believe. You think you know more than the true experts. The idea that global warming increases variability is not mine, but what climate scientists say. If the glaciation period also caused variability, that does not obviate the fact that so does global warming.

You cherry pick data, picking out a cold winter as your evidence, and ignoring all the cases where the weather reflects global warming. The example I used was not cherry picked. It was my own back yard. We had 4 hurricanes strike in 5 weeks. This was (according to the experts) because of a much warmer than normal ocean. I did not need to look around the world for an example to back up my case, unlike you.

Why is it, Jim, if CO2 is not retaining heat, that satellite measurements are showing a reduction in IR emissions from planet Earth in line with CO2 build up?

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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Jim Steele » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:09 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:The difference between you and I, Jim, is arrogance.


ROTFLMAO. You highjack a thread on groundwater recharge and discharge to launch personal attacks because you think you are the only one in possession of the only truth, you accuse me of being funded by a global conspiracy, you ignore all the empirical evidence that contradicts your beliefs, and then you push more ad Homs that it is I, not you who is arrogant. ROTFLMAO!

Sometime people are legends in their own minds!
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Lance Kennedy » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:34 pm

That is the point, Jim.

I am ABSOLUTELY NOT claiming to be the only one in possession of the only truth. That is you. I am telling you what the experts say. I read several science news magazines, which report on the findings of climate scientists (among others), and I repeat back to you what the experts say.

You are the one who has to set up his own web site, and quote his own writings to push his particular point of view. I merely have to tell you what the 97% of climate scientists accept as correct.

Global warming deniers toe the line that Big Coal and Big Oil set up. There is no science behind that, but a lot of money.

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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Jim Steele » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:09 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:I am ABSOLUTELY NOT claiming to be the only one in possession of the only truth. That is you. I am telling you what the experts say. I read several science news magazines, which report on the findings of climate scientists (among others), and I repeat back to you what the experts say.

You are the one who has to set up his own web site, and quote his own writings to push his particular point of view. I merely have to tell you what the 97% of climate scientists accept as correct.


ROTFLMAO. Lance you falsely create your own straw man to stab. I have never said I possess the only truth. I merely write about the natural causes of climate change and the human effects on landscapes that cause regional climate change. And that threatens your blind beliefs

I read all peer-reveiwed scientific papers, and clearly you do NOT, and I report on those expert scientific findings. But you deny all that evidence and close your mind just as you have on this thread. Instead of discussing the facts about groundwater, you try to deflect the debate to some conspiracy and boast your deluded belief that only you convey the REAL science. You prefer magazines that cherry pick and pander to your climate paranoia, and then being a legend in your own mind, go out an falsely attack all that you disagree with. Not with evidence, but with slander.


Lance Kennedy wrote:Global warming deniers toe the line that Big Coal and Big Oil set up. There is no science behind that, but a lot of money.


Again you reveal that you are just a crazed conspiracy theorist. You rant there is no science behind skeptical concerns, because as you have demonstrated time and time again, you close your mind to all the peer-reviewed science skeptics present simply because it contradicts your blind beliefs. Again you dishonestly suggest skeptics are simply being bribed, when our skepticism is based on our years of field research promoting wise environmental stewardship. What the public needs is an awareness of natural climate change to give them a baseline to evaluate to what degree CO2 is affecting them. But crazy alarmist conspiracy advocates do the public a grave disservice and attack all the science that explains natural claim change.

You cherry pick one set of satellite data as if climate change was so easily determined.

But answer, why do ocean oscillations like the Madden Julian show that oceans cool due to convection that creates more clouds that then block the sun cooling the water more but those clouds also prevent infrared from escaping only warming the upper atmosphere. Those rising air currents then after losing their moisture and cooling, descend causing less clouds but more sunlight that then heats the ocean to extremes, despite an INCREASE in escaping infrared waves ?

Why has northern California's maximum temperatures and most of the southeast USA's temperatures remained lower than the 1930s

Why do tree rings show the northern hemisphere's warmest periods were in the 1930s and 40s.

Why do Greenland instrumental temperatures show the greatest warming was in the 1920s to 40s.

Why do scientists write about the Holocene conundrum where temperatures cooled over the past 4000 years while CO2 concentrations rose?

Why were there less glacial ice than to day during the Medieval Warm Period?

If atmospheric CO2 is driving climate change, why did Antarctica's ice cap form 30 million years ago while Greenland's ice cap did not form until 2.5 million years ago?

Why was the last interglacial the Eemian a few degrees warmer than now despite lower CO2 concentrations?

Why do all unadjusted temperature data sets show a warming in the 30s followed by a strong cooling from 1940 to 1970s?

Why has the Antarctic peninsula, hyped by alarmists as the canary in the climate coal mine when temperatures were rapidly rising , not shown any warming since the year 2000?

Why have temperatures for all of east Antarctica shown absolutely no warming trend?

Again Lance, your climate knowledge is extremely limited and poorly understood, but your arrogance and fear makes you think you are the only one to possess the truth, only because you carefully choose what to pay attention to so that you never need to engage in critical thinking!
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Lance Kennedy » Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:40 am

I have never claimed to be an expert on climate change. I merely repeat what the true experts say. You have denied that anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions is the primary cause of global warming. The experts say otherwise.

As evidence, you quote examples of the variation in global warming. Certainly it is varied. Some places warm faster. Some warm earlier. Sometimes another factor will create a temporary warming or cooling period. But the long term trend is to global warming, and this is in step with CO2 increase.

The United Nations has an organisation (IPCC) of experts dedicated go studying global climate change, and they certainly do not agree with you. You are the voice in the wilderness crying out against established science, and you wonder why I do not go along with your conclusions.

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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Jim Steele » Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:27 am

Lance Kennedy wrote: You are the voice in the wilderness crying out against established science, and you wonder why I do not go along with your conclusions.


Again I see you cannot or will not address the number of contradictions I present, choosing instead to hide behind the mythical nebulous consensus Such a man of science. :lol:

Clearly you never read what I write because most of my analyses are based on peer reviewed science. As you always do, you create a straw man that I am agains established science in a sill attempt to marginalize my critiques that you are afraid to discuss. I critically analyze the data, you do not. If my analyses disagree with the politics of a few experts, so be it, that is the nature of good scientific inquiriy.There are many experts that agree with me but we can go around in circles forever. We will see whose ideas stand the test of time.

I have never wondered why you "do not go along" with anything I say. You never will no matter how much evidence is presented. You do not think for yourself and you fear those who do. You have demonstrated that you see climate science as static and settled, and hate anything that upsets that belief. You demonstrate the antithesis of scientific thinking, and defile the very foundations of established scientific inquiry. You spend hundreds of posts on personal attacks and goofy psychological analyses attacking the arguers, while avoiding discussing the scientific evidence. You set off all of Sagan's scientific baloney alerts.

You seem to be on a troll factory mission to repeat ad nauseam that you are the upholder of the experts' truth fighting against the deniers who represent a scary conspiracy bought and paid for by Big Oil. You have been quite entertaining, providing great psychological insights.

Its all quite funny.
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Lance Kennedy » Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:39 am

Your 'evidence ' consists of exceptions to the continuous global warming changes. Since we are talking of climate and weather, which is inherently chaotic, there will always be many such exceptions.
Big deal.

Incidentally, I found today that here in NZ we have just had the hottest summer on record, as well as the wettest, and the one with the most cyclones. This is not conclusive evidence, of course. But it is also not cherry picked, since it is my own back yard.

Again, I am not and do not have to be an expert on climate. The real experts are very clear on their statement which is that the world is warming and it is caused by anthropogenic greenhouse gases. You, Jim, are the person who is denying established science, not me.

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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Lausten » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:43 pm

Jim Steele wrote:
And remember, the consensus is not evidence.

Not that facts matter to you, but I didn't say that. That would be a circular argument. What I said was, the consensus rests on the quality of the data and we rely on experts to interpret that data and help us understand the conclusions that are derived from the data. The scientists who are doing that can come and go, but data doesn't change. I'm not sure how you could argue against that since you claim expertise on this topic and claim to base your conclusions on data.

Wikipedia paraphrases Shwed Uri; Peter Bearman (December 2010). "The Temporal Structure of Scientific Consensus Formation"
The inherent uncertainty in science, where theories are never proven but can only be disproven (see falsifiability), poses a problem for politicians, policymakers, lawyers, and business professionals. Where scientific or philosophical questions can often languish in uncertainty for decades within their disciplinary settings, policymakers are faced with the problems of making sound decisions based on the currently available data, even if it is likely not a final form of the "truth". The tricky part is discerning what is close enough to "final truth". For example, social action against smoking probably came too long after science was 'pretty consensual'.[2]
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Jim Steele » Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:00 pm

Lausten wrote:The scientists who are doing that can come and go, but data doesn't change. I'm not sure how you could argue against that since you claim expertise on this topic and claim to base your conclusions on data.



Au contraire. That is the biggest problem with the politicization of climate science. The data has been altered and adjusted continuously, not to mention the antics to "hide the decline" reported in tree ring data.

There is a whole blog post here giving examples of that problem regards getting g rid to the "1930s and 40s warm blip"

viewtopic.php?f=40&t=27659&hilit=Warm+blip
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Lance Kennedy » Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:44 am

And of course Jim, you know better than the scientists of NASA.

https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

And of course, you know so much more than the scientists working for the United Nations, who say there is a clear human influence on the climate.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPCC_Fi ... ent_Report

And the fact that 15 of the last 16 years are the warmest on record is meaningless. Or that we are getting more extreme weather than any time previously. Or that the world has warmed 1.1 Celsius on average since the 19th century. Or that sea levels have risen 8 inches over that time.

Face it, Jim. The empirical evidence shows you to be wrong. The top experts on climate say you are wrong. I say you are wrong. To demonstrate your case, for references, you quote yourself. That is like a religious person quoting the bible to PROVE that God exists. But of course, global warming denial is a kind of religion , just as irrational as other religions.

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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Jim Steele » Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:30 am

Lance you getting boring with the same tired sniping.

To again summarize.

Lance says "Jim is a skeptic No matter how good his science is, Lance will never trust it because Lance thinks skeptics must be wrong. So Lance feels justified to make snarky insults."

That about sums it up, don't it! Why waste time repeating all your BS.
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Lance Kennedy » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:49 am

Wrong.

Jim is not a skeptic. Skeptics oppose bull-shit.
Jim is a denier. Deniers oppose good science.

Your belief, Jim, that global climate change is not driven primarily by human activity puts you at odds with science. So you are denying the findings of the world's top climate scientists. That makes you a denier. Not a skeptic.

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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Jim Steele » Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:30 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:Wrong.

Jim is not a skeptic. Skeptics oppose bull-shit.
Jim is a denier. Deniers oppose good science.

Your belief, Jim, that global climate change is not driven primarily by human activity puts you at odds with science. So you are denying the findings of the world's top climate scientists. That makes you a denier. Not a skeptic.


Snipe snipe snipe! Lance you got nothing to offer but ad Homs and you are obsessed. No science ever. This essay is about the latest from scientists on groundwater re-charge and discharge and sea level. There is no consensus on this issue You are the only one denying the science. You are just trying to hijack the thread under the delusion you are fighting some evil conspiracy. ROTFLMAO

So let's continue with the science from the essay you are so afraid to address and keep trying to disrupt. Again all links to the peer-reviewed scientific research are available in the original essay linked in first post.

To balance their sea level budgets, researchers assert melting glaciers have added ~0.8 mm/year to recent sea level rise. The 20th century retreat of most glaciers is undeniable, but we cannot simply assume all 20th century glacier meltwater immediately reached the oceans. The greatest concentration of ice, outside of Greenland and Antarctica, resides in the regions north of India and Pakistan, in the Himalaya and Karakoram glaciers. Most melt water flowing northward enters the extensive Asian endorheic basins. Likewise, some of the Sierra Nevada meltwater flows into Nevada’s Great Basin, and some Andes meltwater flows into the endorheic basins of the Altiplano and Lake Titicaca as well as the Atacama Desert. It is very likely much of the current glacial meltwater will then take decades to millennia to reach the ocean and has yet to impact modern sea levels. If the glacial melt water contribution to sea level is overestimated, then, the unaccounted-for contribution to sea level rise becomes much larger than initially thought.



Accurate Attribution of Groundwater Discharge and Recharge Will Constrain Sea Level Contributions


Using a combination of GRACE gravity data that measured changes in ocean mass, altimetry data that measured changes in ocean volume and Argo data that measured heat content, Cazenave (2008) used 2 different methods and both estimated the contribution from increased ocean heat to be about 0.3 to 0.37 mm/year. Jevrejeva (2008) calculated a similar heat contribution. Other researchers suggest thermal expansion contributes 1.2 to 1.5 mm/year (i.e. Chambers 2016). Such large discrepancies reveal contributing factors to sea level rise are not yet reliably constrained.

One of the great uncertainties in sea level research are glacial isostatic adjustments.
Researchers have subjectively adopted various Glacio-isotatic adjustment models with recommended adjustments ranging from 1 to 2 mm/year. For example, although GRACE gravity estimates had not detected any added water mass to the oceans, Cazenave (2008) added a 2 mm/year adjustment, as illustrated from her Figure 1 below. Other researchers only added a 1 mm/yr adjustment.


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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Lance Kennedy » Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:42 pm

As I told you Jim, I have no interest in your groundwater bull dust. When I asked for a true reference, it turned out you were quoting yourself. Not very credible !

I am not a climate scientist, and so I go by what the true climate scientists say. The IPCC , NASA, and various university research groups. I do not go by what Jim Steele says.

https://science2017.globalchange.gov/chapter/2/

As the reference above says. Earth's climate is undergoing substantial change due to anthropogenic activities.

I am happy to accept an authoritative statement like that, while ignoring the Jim Steele crackpot web site.

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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Jim Steele » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:04 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:As I told you Jim, I have no interest in your groundwater bull dust. When I asked for a true reference, it turned out you were quoting yourself. Not very credible !


Lance, you must really be slow on the uptake to suggest I was "just quoting myself". YOU are so busy with your obsessed sniping and personal attacks, you totally fail to see reality.

Indeed I linked to my essay that is the topic of this post. But the essay is filled with links to many other researchers who provided the peer reviewed evidence that supports my essay. Furthermore, although you suspiciously claim to be a biologist, you seem totally unaware of the peer-reviewed literature, in which scientists link to their previous work ALL the time.

Its not me who is not very credible!
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Lausten » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:28 pm

Jim Steele wrote:
Lausten wrote:The scientists who are doing that can come and go, but data doesn't change. I'm not sure how you could argue against that since you claim expertise on this topic and claim to base your conclusions on data.



Au contraire. That is the biggest problem with the politicization of climate science. The data has been altered and adjusted continuously, not to mention the antics to "hide the decline" reported in tree ring data.

There is a whole blog post here giving examples of that problem regards getting g rid to the "1930s and 40s warm blip"

viewtopic.php?f=40&t=27659&hilit=Warm+blip

I thought about going back and fixing my wording that "the data doesn't change", but you just aren't worth the trouble. No matter how clearly I make my case, you'll find something wrong with it, exploit it, and ignore the rest. The data changing or being manipulated is not the point of what I said, not in the slightest. Of course data changes, new data is added, old data is shown to be wrong, new data puts old data in a different light. The point is, it's the data. If you aren't using proper methods and looking at the entire set of data and basing your conclusion on the whole picture, you're not doing science. You try to appear to be a scientist by applying proper methods sometimes to certain data.
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:38 pm

Gee, Little Jimmy being dishonest? Who woulda thunk it?
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Jim Steele » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:41 pm

Lausten wrote: No matter how clearly I make my case, you'll find something wrong with it, exploit it, and ignore the rest.


Lausten that is a perfect synopsis regards how you have dealt with everything I have ever written here.

Where we differ,

I provide a ton of scientific evidence with links to their publications.

You do nothing but attack me personally. But given your lack of scientific background, you have no other option to feebly defend your blind beliefs.

It is weirdly amusing that you have engaged in non-stop ad Homs, along with poorly expressed arguments. When I point out your failing, you blame me, as if I am supposed to be clairoyant and understand what you really meant. So what does blaming others for your shortcomings say about your integrity?
Last edited by Jim Steele on Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Jim Steele » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:45 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Gee, Little Jimmy being dishonest? Who woulda thunk it?


Gawdzilla, I have come to expect nothing more than personal ad Homs from you, and a disturbing display of scientific ignorance.

Your slander is merely a smoke screen to hide your lack of knowledge and blind beliefs.

So prove your slander!

I have NEVER posted one dishonest piece of evidence here, ever! But prove me wrong! Or just continue with your ignorant trolling hit and run tactics.
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Lance Kennedy » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:59 pm

Jim

The problem with your case is not dishonesty. It is self delusion. That is not an ad hom. What I am accusing you of is being normal, since most people engage regularly on the path of self delusion. So you have the normal, regular human ability to delude yourself. That separates you from skeptics, since skeptics work to cut through the delusion.

I do not know how you came to be a global warming denier. I guess you probably listened to another denier, or read some denial literature. However, what you have done since is the normal human and fallible thing. You have set out to justify your fallacious ideas. It takes a person of greater than normal character to admit being wrong, and publicly change his views.

I think you are probably intelligent. The problem is that, as Michael Shermer has said in his books, intelligence becomes a tool for producing better rationalisations. You have taken this to the point of establishing the equivalent of a detailed, though fallaceous, religion. It is now a matter of faith for you that global climate change is not driven by human activity, and it is a kind of blasphemy to deny that item of faith. You use your intelligence to rationalise your way around the truth.

This is where your belief in logic and reasoning leads you right up the proverbial garden path. Nothing new there. Such faulty reasoning has led humanity into error over thousands of years. The perceived need to bleed people dying of loss of blood from wounds is the kind of idiocy that the world has repeatedly created through weird logic. Denying human activity as a driver of global warming is another form of such idiocy. You are an intelligent guy, Jim, but seriously in error, and now operating as a crackpot.

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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Jim Steele » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:37 pm

ROTFLMAO

Lance says "blah blah blah"

So to again summarize.

Lance says "Jim is a skeptic No matter how good his science is, Lance will never trust it because Lance thinks skeptics must be wrong. So Lance feels justified to make snarky insults."


That about sums it up, don't it! So why is lance obsessed with repeating all his BS.
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Lance Kennedy » Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:45 pm

Because, Jim, it is not sinking in.

You are not a skeptic. You are a denier. You do not oppose bull-shit, the way a good skeptic does. You oppose established science, making you a denier. You fit into the same category as the religious people who oppose evolution , and claim humans and dinosaurs lived together.

This is made clear by the fact that you continue to deny the findings of 97% of climate scientists. You argue against what is stated by NASA, the United Nations, and every university and research institute with a good scientific reputation. You oppose good science, and promote bull-shit, making you a science denier. The views you promulgate are totally crack pot.

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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Jim Steele » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:29 am

ROTFLMAO
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Lance Kennedy » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:43 am

You roll about on the floor all you like, Jim, but nothing alters the fact that you choose to deny good science.

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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Jim Steele » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:00 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:You roll about on the floor all you like, Jim, but nothing alters the fact that you choose to deny good science.


ROTFLMAO.. You never read what I write, so how would you know. You are just sniping! All you got is ad Homs.
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Lance Kennedy » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:28 am

The latest New Scientist (17 March, page 6) has an item on seawater changes in the North Atlantic.

Between 2002 and 2014, there has been a gradual warming of surface water, and a gradual decrease of salinity. This is a clear sign of more fresh water pouring into the ocean , as ice melts. There is genuine concern that the convection currents of the Atlantic may be strongly affected, with unknown results. This is another piece of empirical evidence of anthropogenic global warming.

This is the difference between you, Jim, and a genuine climate scientist. The scientist works to collect empirical data and uses that as the basis of conclusions. You write nonsense on your web site.

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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Jim Steele » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:41 am

How to recognize an anti-science conspiracy theorist troll, from a sincere person who understands science

1. A) Good Science: Albert Einstein, “Never stop Questioning”

B) Anti-science: If you question the anthropogenic causes of climate change you are a denier, a whacko and should be ridiculed


2. A) Good Science: Galileo, “In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual.

B) Anti-science: You are a denier if you question any consensus claims


3. A) Good Science: Richard Feynman states scientists should exercise “a specific, extra type of integrity that is not lying, but bending over backwards to show how you're maybe wrong, [an integrity] that you ought to have when acting as a scientist. And this is our responsibility as scientists, certainly to other scientists, and I think to laymen

B) Anti-science: The science is settled. You are a denier.


4. A) Good Science: Carl Sagan writes, “Encourage substantive debate on the evidence by knowledgeable proponents of all points of view. Arguments from authority carry little weight.


B) Anti-science: The consensus says you are a denier


5. A) Good Science: The motto of Sir Isaac Newton’s Royal Society of London for Improving Natural Knowledge “Take No One’s Word for it”.

In other words we can only trust science because it is well vetted by independent investigations.

B) Anti-science: Michael Mann says the challenges to his “hypotheses” are “attacks on science”.
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Lance Kennedy » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:31 am

Galileo's comment on reasoning is not good science. It is based on the pre-existing superstition of his time. Good science involves studying the real world and respecting empirical data.

Questioning is good. Denying data is bad. Or ignoring data, which you have done consistently.

Accepting you might be wrong is good. Try it.

You misquote Mann. It is not challenging hypotheses that are bad science. It is ignoring or denying data.

I have posted a number of results of empirical studies, which you ignore, Jim.

Climate science is not settled, and I have never claimed it was. In particular, I am skeptical of predictions about future climates. But I am not denying data. For example, satellites show a reduction in the infra red emissions that greenhouse gases absorb. This is not a local exception to any rule, since it is global and has continued for the several decades that satellites have been measuring this parameter.

On accepting authority.
You have been asking me to accept your authority. I am not that stupid.
On the other hand, I am very happy to accept the results, and the data from the studies of the 97% of climate scientists who have concluded that human a tricity is behind global warming.

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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Jim Steele » Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:11 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote: I am not that stupid.


:mrgreen:
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Lance Kennedy » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:23 pm

Looking back over Jim's last three posts, it is clear he has no spurious pseudoscience arguments left, and is falling back on silliness.

So on behalf of the skeptics, I declare this debate won by the skeptics, and the denier has lost.

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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Lausten » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:24 pm

Jim Steele wrote:.... as if I am supposed to be clairoyant and understand what you really meant. So what does blaming others for your shortcomings say about your integrity?

Not expressing yourself perfectly and completely with every utterance is not a shortcoming. It's perfectly normal. Failing to ask for clarification and instead writing a thesis on the problem with a few words taken out of context, that's a shortcoming. Responding only to the discussion about the words instead of the clarification of the intended meaning, that's a shortcoming.
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:49 pm

Being a AGW conspiracy theorist, that's a very long coming.
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Postby Jim Steele » Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:58 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:Looking back over Jim's last three posts, it is clear he has no spurious pseudoscience arguments left, and is falling back on silliness.

So on behalf of the skeptics, I declare this debate won by the skeptics, and the denier has lost.


ROTFLMAO

Lance you are truly a legend in your own mind.

Its quite amusing how obsessed you are, "claiming a victory in a debate you never entered!"

ROTFLMAO. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

The debate in this thread is about groundwater and sea level. An issue you were afraid to even address.

Instead you pushed the myth of 97%, never ever address the groundwater issue, but then claim victory.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I thank you for demonstrating the idiocy of conspiracy thinking and CO2 alarmism.
“In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." Galileo


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