NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Flight

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NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Flight

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:24 pm

NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017

Date: February 13, 2018

Source: NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center

Summary: Last year was a record-breaking one for Operation IceBridge, NASA's aerial survey of the state of polar ice.

Last year was a record-breaking one for Operation IceBridge, NASA's aerial survey of the state of polar ice. For the first time in its nine-year history, the mission, which aims to close the gap between two NASA satellite campaigns that study changes in the height of polar ice, carried out seven field campaigns in the Arctic and Antarctic in a single year. In total, the IceBridge scientists and instruments flew over 214,000 miles, the equivalent of orbiting the Earth 8.6 times at the equator.

"A big highlight for 2017 is how we increased our reach with our new bases of operations and additional campaigns," said Nathan Kurtz, IceBridge's project scientist and a sea ice researcher at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland. "In the Arctic, we flew out of Svalbard for the first time, expanding our coverage of the Eastern Arctic Ocean. And with our two Antarctic aircraft campaigns from Argentina and East Antarctica, we've flown over a large area of the Antarctic continent."

The expanding sets of measurements collected by IceBridge will continue to be invaluable for researchers to advance their understanding of how the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets are contributing to sea level rise and how the changing polar sea ice impacts weather and climate. For example, in 2017, scientists worldwide published studies that had used IceBridge data to look at ways to improve forecasts of sea ice conditions and to use satellites to map the depth of the layer of snow on top of sea ice, a key measurement in determining sea ice volume.


Continues...
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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby Pyrrho » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:03 pm

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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:23 pm

Greenland is the largest piece of land I have yet to set foot on. Shaping up to be a summer vacation choice.
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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby Gord » Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:31 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Greenland is the largest piece of land I have yet to set foot on. Shaping up to be a summer vacation choice.

You won't like the flies. They drove the Vikings crazy.
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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:18 am

Gord wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Greenland is the largest piece of land I have yet to set foot on. Shaping up to be a summer vacation choice.

You won't like the flies. They drove the Vikings crazy.

That box is already checked.
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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby Pyrrho » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:37 pm

https://twitter.com/carlzimmer/status/9 ... 0698207236

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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby Jim Steele » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:54 pm

ROTFLMAO

In response to popular demand, the forum's font formatting options have been changed from "large" and "huge" to "small" and "tiny". . Very funny!

But my poor old eyes are straining. ROTFLMAO
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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:01 am

Jim Steele wrote:In response to popular demand, the forum's font formatting options have been changed from "large" and "huge" to "small" and "tiny". But my poor old eyes are straining.
The font is always the same size when posting.

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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby Jim Steele » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:41 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Jim Steele wrote:In response to popular demand, the forum's font formatting options have been changed from "large" and "huge" to "small" and "tiny". But my poor old eyes are straining.
The font is always the same size when posting.


I hadn't tried using the new fonts but Im giving it a whirl now. Whatever the case I enjoyed the humor
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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:41 am

Ctrl + and Ctrl - make the fonts appear larger or smaller. After seven eye surgeries I have that one down.
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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby Gord » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:14 pm

I just hold down the Ctrl key and roll my mouse wheel to zoom in or out for the whole pager. It works whether I'm reading someone else's post or typing a post of my own.

Right now, I have it set at 125%.
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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby Pyrrho » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:42 pm

https://twitter.com/EricHolthaus/status ... 8103870465



https://twitter.com/ZLabe/status/967498889854050304

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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby enoch arden » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:28 pm

I have an amateur question about the climate change: what is climate?

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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:40 pm

enoch arden wrote:I have an amateur question about the climate change: what is climate?

cli·mate
noun
the weather conditions prevailing in an area in general or over a long period.
"our cold, wet climate"
synonyms: weather conditions, weather; atmospheric conditions
"the mild climate"
a region with particular prevailing weather conditions.
"vacationing in a warm climate"
synonyms: region, area, zone, country, place; literaryclime
"they come from a colder climate"


That's the mundane definition.

The scientific definition:

the composite or generally prevailing weather conditions of a region, as temperature, air pressure, humidity, precipitation, sunshine, cloudiness, and winds, throughout the year, averaged over a series of years. 2. a region or area characterized by a given climate: to move to a warm climate.
Climate | Define Climate at Dictionary.com
www.dictionary.com/browse/climate


You can see that the scientific definition of climate is not the same as "weather".
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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby Gord » Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:10 am

You can also look at wikipedia for this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%B6pp ... sification

The flora and fauna of a region will depend upon its climate.
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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby enoch arden » Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:04 pm

Thanks. But this point is still confusing:
"averaged over a series of years"

How many years? 2, 20, 2000, 2000, 20000?

Thanks in advance for your explaining this point.

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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby Gord » Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:23 pm

enoch arden wrote:Thanks. But this point is still confusing:
"averaged over a series of years"

How many years? 2, 20, 2000, 2000, 20000?

Thanks in advance for your explaining this point.

"Many."
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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby enoch arden » Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:09 pm

Should it be many enough to include the last Ice Age?

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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby Gord » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:31 am

No, they didn't invent the weatherman until the 15th century.
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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby enoch arden » Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:31 pm

Do you question the reality of the Ice Age?

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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:44 pm

Don't dance.
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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby enoch arden » Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:47 pm

Let me ask it straight: do you deny the existence of any climate before the measurements began in the 15th century?

Yes/no would suffice for the answer. Avoiding dancing as far as possible.

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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:07 pm

enoch arden wrote:Let me ask it straight: do you deny the existence of any climate before the measurements began in the 15th century?

Yes/no would suffice for the answer. Avoiding dancing as far as possible.

You know, I'm way to old to fall for stair stepping, so why don't you make a statement and see if it stands up to inspection.
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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby enoch arden » Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:57 pm

Here is a statement for your inspection: the entire climate discussion is thoroughly meaningless since the time scale defining the term "climate" is taken arbitrarily. Therefore, the conclusion of whether it is cooling of warming is also arbitrary.

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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:12 pm

I thought that was where you were going.
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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby OutOfBreath » Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:56 pm

enoch arden wrote:Here is a statement for your inspection: the entire climate discussion is thoroughly meaningless since the time scale defining the term "climate" is taken arbitrarily. Therefore, the conclusion of whether it is cooling of warming is also arbitrary.

Here you go:

Wiki wrote:Operationalization is thus the process of defining a fuzzy concept so as to make it clearly distinguishable, measurable, and understandable in terms of empirical observations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operationalization

Other basic concepts of science you wonder about?

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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:04 pm

n00bs be like dat.
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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby enoch arden » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:02 pm

Wiki:

Concepts are the fundamental building blocks of our thoughts and beliefs.

Wiki:
defining a fuzzy concept so as to make it clearly distinguishable, measurable, and understandable in terms of empirical observations.

Can you explain how a "building block of thought and belief" can be measured? In what units? Litres? Horse powers?

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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:47 pm

{!#%@} per square pound.
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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby Pyrrho » Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:49 am

https://twitter.com/ZLabe/status/969600863671996417

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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby Gord » Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:24 pm

enoch arden wrote:Let me ask it straight: do you deny the existence of any climate before the measurements began in the 15th century?

Yes/no would suffice for the answer. Avoiding dancing as far as possible.

No.

And to be more accurate, which I feel is always better (whether or not you assign it the descriptive phrase of "dancing"), I neither accept nor deny the existence of any climate before the measurements began in the 15th century (which I made up, by the way -- I have no idea when weathermen were invented). Because why would I?
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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:43 pm

Gotcha Science 101.
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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby Jim Steele » Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:46 pm

Pyrrho wrote:https://twitter.com/EricHolthaus/status/967510368103870465



https://twitter.com/ZLabe/status/967498889854050304



This is just more evidence that climate and weather changes are driven primarily by changes in atmospheric circulation. The jet stream is always wavy and particularly so in the northern hemisphere due to the arrangement of continents and oceans.

Intrusions of warm air from the southern Atlantic into the Arctic night is neither unusual or shocking. The same pressure system that drove warmer air into the Arctic on its western flank, drove freezing air into Europe on its eastern flank. Thats the way weather works.There is no clear connection to increasing CO2.
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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby enoch arden » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:35 pm

"climate and weather changes are driven primarily by changes in atmospheric circulation"

The atmospheric circulation pattern is a part of what is called climate. The above statement implies that climate is driven by climate. A tautology without any meaning.

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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby enoch arden » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:38 pm

"I neither accept nor deny the existence of any climate before the measurements began in the 15th century (which I made up, by the way -- I have no idea when weathermen were invented). Because why would I?"

Let me repeat the famous question asked by Einstein: "Do you believe that the Moon is still there when you don't look at it?"

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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby Gord » Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:57 pm

enoch arden wrote:"I neither accept nor deny the existence of any climate before the measurements began in the 15th century (which I made up, by the way -- I have no idea when weathermen were invented). Because why would I?"

Let me repeat the famous question asked by Einstein: "Do you believe that the Moon is still there when you don't look at it?"

No, I do not believe that the Moon is still there when I don't look at it. I also don't believe it's not there. Furthermore, I don't believe it's there when I do look at it, nor do I disbelieve that it is there. Because why would I?
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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby Gord » Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:01 pm

enoch arden wrote:"climate and weather changes are driven primarily by changes in atmospheric circulation"

The atmospheric circulation pattern is a part of what is called climate. The above statement implies that climate is driven by climate. A tautology without any meaning.

Actually, if we accept your definition that the atmospheric circulation pattern is PART of what is called climate, then the above statement implies that climate CHANGE is driven by CHANGE in A PART of what is called climate. It could be read as saying that overall climate can be changed by a change in one part.

As an analogy, we could say that the direction of a car is changed by a change in the direction of the steering wheel.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:47 pm

MIghty were the quibbles in the days when dragons walked the Earth.
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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby OutOfBreath » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:14 am

enoch arden wrote:Wiki:

Concepts are the fundamental building blocks of our thoughts and beliefs.

Wiki:
defining a fuzzy concept so as to make it clearly distinguishable, measurable, and understandable in terms of empirical observations.
Can you explain how a "building block of thought and belief" can be measured? In what units? Litres? Horse powers?


How is a litre a litre? How much is a "horsepower"?

The obvious science 100 answer is that everything starts with concepts and premises. Rigorous use of such gave us philosophy as a dicipline, which after a while gave rise to what we today refer to as "science". What sets science apart from philosophy is the rigorous application of empiricism, the collection of data, over theological or other philosophical views. To be able to use data, it must be collected and operationalized in order for it to be measured and applied.

So, about the litre:
The litre (SI spelling) or liter (American spelling) (symbols L or l,[1] sometimes abbreviated ltr) is an SI accepted metric system unit of volume equal to 1 cubic decimetre (dm3), 1,000 cubic centimetres (cm3) or 1/1,000 cubic metre. A cubic decimetre (or litre) occupies a volume of 10 cm×10 cm×10 cm (see figure) and is thus equal to one-thousandth of a cubic metre

To establish a litre, you need to establish and define distances, as well as having the concept of volume. Why litres? It's a convenient "unit" of liquid.

Are we done with "groping for ignorance" lines of argument now?

Peace
Dan
What is perceived as real becomes real in its consequences.

"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert

enoch arden
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Re: NASA's longest running survey of ice shattered records in 2017 Date: February 13, 2018 Source: NASA/Goddard Space Fl

Postby enoch arden » Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:03 pm

"As an analogy, we could say that the direction of a car is changed by a change in the direction of the steering wheel."

A small lecture in logic. This statement is not a tautology because it conveys non-trivial information about the correlation between the position of the steering wheel and the direction of the car.


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