How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

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How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Jim Steele » Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:14 pm

Greenland has been adding ice at a record pace. Most likely it will gain over 500 gigatons this year

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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:12 pm

Please provide the link to the article that discusses your graphs.

imo: No One should reply on topic until you do.
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:36 pm

OK. I guess I'll come back in August when that pretty blue line took a nosedive below that red one. :senile:
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:55 pm

Good catch Eggs. .... It probably will. This is Jimbo cherrypicking the zigs and the zags.
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Jim Steele » Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:38 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:OK. I guess I'll come back in August when that pretty blue line took a nosedive below that red one. :senile:


Please do comeback SCRAMBLED and we can see who has a better grasp of climate reality.

I predicted in August it will show more than 500 gigaton were accumulated

Scrambled suggests about zero. As does bobbo.

And bobbo you asked so nicely for a link, but then ruined everything with your incessant use of your tired old insulting meaning less accusation of cherrypicking.

The graph is from the DMI Danish Meteorological Institute. Now you can do your own homework. You're insane if you think that I would do any extra work for someone who is always insulting and fabricating dishonest attributions to me.
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:10 pm

POST YOUR FRICKIN LINK................no experienced person will respond to you on point without it.

Your failure to do so is not excused by actions of anyone else. You should be doing it as a matter of professional pride.

............... which you lack.
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Jim Steele » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:26 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:POST YOUR FRICKIN LINK................no experienced person will respond to you on point without it.

Your failure to do so is not excused by actions of anyone else. You should be doing it as a matter of professional pride.

............... which you lack.


ROTFLMAO. Do your own homework. If you really care I have given you enough information. That's more than you deserve.
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby OutOfBreath » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:35 pm

It will gain ice within the confidence levels of the mean of 81-10. In the upper end of that mean granted, but not much outside it.

Anything else you need help reading?

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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Jim Steele » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:54 pm

OutOfBreath wrote:It will gain ice within the confidence levels of the mean of 81-10. In the upper end of that mean granted, but not much outside it.

Anything else you need help reading?


Well Dan, what does your snarky ass self predict the total surface mass accumulation will be this year?

And if it gains ice above the mean but within the confidence levels, doesnt that still mean Greenland is gaining surface ice?

What tells us more about climate change. The lost ice in 2012 or the gains we are seeing the past couple of years?
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:13 am

What it says, in a vacuum without the link that may actually say the same thing: is that ice accumulation varies from year to year with the general trend being whatever it is. (Yes...I know parts of Antarctica are growing while other parts are accelerating their losses...... or maybe not accelerating. Who cares with the rest of the world facing the onslaught?)

You probably don't notice or think not to care about it: but as you don't POST THE FRICKIN LINK, you/we are probably losing readers and contributors who either agree or don't want to waste their time on a subject with such procedural speed bumps. IOW: its just not me. And thats what being a PROFESSIONAL is all about. Respect for your own discipline.

................................ which you lack.

POST YOUR FRICKIN LINKS. Waste of time for anyone to research what you refuse to give.
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Jim Steele » Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:55 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:POST YOUR FRICKIN LINKS. Waste of time for anyone to research what you refuse to give.


ROTFLMAO Well bobbo when you first came to this forum you bragged you didn t read or understand scientific papers, but you could defeat any climate skeptic with your words. But you cant even find scientific data when you are told where its located. Really sad.

Toughen up, do your homework and stop whining that no one will spoon feed you the info
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby OutOfBreath » Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:24 am

JIm Steele wrote:Well Dan, what does your snarky ass self predict the total surface mass accumulation will be this year?

Above average.

And if it gains ice above the mean but within the confidence levels, doesnt that still mean Greenland is gaining surface ice?

For THIS year yeah. But you give no link and no historical data so the significance for longer trends is unknown. Another zag-pick?

What tells us more about climate change. The lost ice in 2012 or the gains we are seeing the past couple of years?
Neither. 30 year trends tell us about climate change.

Pop-quiz: why so long time periods? Any idea?

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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Gord » Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:54 am

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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Jim Steele » Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:09 pm

OutOfBreath wrote:
JIm Steele wrote:What tells us more about climate change. The lost ice in 2012 or the gains we are seeing the past couple of years?


Neither. 30 year trends tell us about climate change.



Absolutely correct regards Greenland ice,

..but wrong about 30 years. Natural oscillations occur over 60 to 100 years.

Those who sound the climate alarm point to changes since 1970, which is merely a zig that only accounts for half an oscillation, That's why the warm peaks of the 30s and 40s and attempts to adjust them away has been such an important issue.

viewtopic.php?f=40&t=27659
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Jim Steele » Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:39 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Good catch Eggs. .... It probably will. This is Jimbo cherrypicking the zigs and the zags.


No this is just another example of bobbo sniping with the irrelevant "cherrypicking" bullet,

I merely posted the increase in Greenland ice. I didnt say what it means. But alarmists will mindlessly attack all contrary information as cherrypicking. The alarmist media had hyped the 2012 decline as confirmation of CO2 warming.They were cherrypicking. Bobbo and scrm dont even understand the graph and as we will see their prediction that the "blue line will dive below the red line" shows they dont understand how the weather affects Greenland ice. They appear to think rising CO2 will dictated the "dive". Very ill informed!

The 2012 melt happened because a high pressure system sat over Greenland creating a heat wave due to clear skies that increased insolation above normal as well as pumping warmer air up from the south. That's not happening now.

I merely pointed out the extreme gains in ice, to hopefully incited discussion of what has caused the changes in Greenland's ice. I have made no claim about its significance regards CO2 effects.

To discuss the dynamics of Greenland ice requires assembling many pieces of evidence from many published papers. I'll post my earlier synthesis of those results, but I doubt the skeptic haters will read or discuss it in a civil scientific manner

What you will find at the site from which the graph was taken is that the model algorithm that estimates ice gain or loss have changed every year since 2014 and thus estimates of ice gain or loss have shifted The red line for the 2012 melt has varied from a gain of 100 Gt to zero gain every year. I have archived their graphs over the past 5 years.

DMI site: https://www.dmi.dk/en/groenland/maaling ... ss-budget/
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:50 pm

Jimbo: post a link to your charts.............or you are not worth engaging on topic.
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Jim Steele » Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:18 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Jimbo: post a link to your charts.............or you are not worth engaging on topic.


More bobbo blather. He's so obsessed with personal attacks, he reveals he never really reads my posts.....

or notice the link had already been provided.. ROTFLMAO
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:00 pm

Until you regularly post your links, I'm not going to assume you are and search your history to find them. I did look, but as stated, your history is to not provide links.

Post your links, or no body should reply on point to your topics. Contra: errors/comments on what you do post that are presented already.
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Jim Steele » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:06 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Until you regularly post your links, I'm not going to assume you are and search your history to find them. I did look, but as stated, your history is to not provide links.

Post your links, or no body should reply on point to your topics. Contra: errors/comments on what you do post that are presented already.


Typical alarmist! Your inadequacies are all my fault. ROTFLMAO
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:11 am

Your faults ARE your faults. As mine are mine.

Post your links.
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Jim Steele » Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:22 am

ROTFLMAO. This insane denial and accusation of others for their own faults is hilarious!

I wrote

JIm Steele wrote:What you will find at the site from which the graph was taken is that the model algorithm that estimates ice gain or loss have changed every year since 2014 and thus estimates of ice gain or loss have shifted The red line for the 2012 melt has varied from a gain of 100 Gt to zero gain every year. I have archived their graphs over the past 5 years.

DMI site: https://www.dmi.dk/en/groenland/maaling ... ss-budget/


Right afterwards Bobbo replies with his usual nonsense:

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Jimbo: post a link to your charts.............or you are not worth engaging on topic.


And he continues to blame me, because he cant find the link posted right before his eyes. ROTFLMAO

He obsesses again

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Your faults ARE your faults. As mine are mine.

Post your links.


Such idiotic blather is why I learned it never matters if I post links or not. Bobbo will IMAGINE a non-existent problem as usual.
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:41 am

Thanks for the link. So....other than Greenland is adding more ice than average so far this year but already the curve has descended below the highest average accumulated amount............what does it mean? What is the takeaway "long term?"

Any ideas?
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Jim Steele » Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:01 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Thanks for the link. So....other than Greenland is adding more ice than average so far this year but already the curve has descended below the highest average accumulated amount............what does it mean?


Right or wrong, you must have an idea what the graph means since you commented on it. (Or perhaps you just comment without ever knowing what you are commenting about.) In order to be sure you are reading the graph correctly i need to know why did you and scrm state you expect it to dip below the red line, i.e. no accumulation this year? As will soon be seen, your prediction will be woefully incorrect. So you both must be laboring under some gross misconceptions that must be corrected before a meaningful discussion can proceed.

Why did you predict (by virtue of your agreement with scrm) that the blue line will dip below the red in August??
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:10 am

You posted the chart. Why?
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Jim Steele » Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:33 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:You posted the chart. Why?


Good dodge, bobbo. And totally expected.

I posted it to show above average increases in ice accumulation so far and see how well the alarmists here understood it meaning. As expected there was failure.

Why did you try denigrate the graph as "cherrypicking"??? So why did you make your wrong prediction?
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Jim Steele » Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:53 am

Bobbo below is a quote from you 2 years ago attacking others as deniers and holding forth as if you know all about Greenland. So surely you must have enough self awareness to understand why your prediction for this years Geenland ice will be so far off.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Sweetpea and xouper, two fine aggressive deniers, but objectively you haven't begun to understand the basics of the subject at hand. If you don't know about GreenLand Ice Sheet melting and the concern and consequences of a large slab of ice sliding into the Ocean and if you don't know about the significance of 350 ppm co2, or 2C temp rise, then you are not qualified to even comment on the subject. You should instead be reading about the references made.


Funny how you are always telling others they are not qualified to comment.
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:57 am

Post your links.
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Jim Steele » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:21 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Post your links.


ROTFLMAO. Are you denying ever saying what I quoted? Do you not even know what you say?

Here's another link revealing your understanding of Greenland ice..

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Sweetpee: If the Greenland Ice Sheet slid off immediately raising the ocean 24 feet, would that convince most people that Global Warming was taking place and needed to be counteracted, or not. You know.... in your opinion?


Such a silly hypothetical. Dont you know most of Greenland ice sits in a "bowl" such that the surrounding mountains would prevent any such imaginary event. You do seem to believe in a lot of imaginary climate catastrophes.

So again, so we have a solid scientific foundation from which to discuss the implications of the graph, I ask again

why did you make your wrong prediction?

What was the basis for your thinking?

Based on years of your catastrophic posts, I suspect you think rising CO2 can only mean everything is going to melt, and other factors are insignificant... but that's what causes misguided thinking.
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:31 am

JIm Steele wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Post your links.


ROTFLMAO. Are you denying ever saying what I quoted? Do you not even know what you say? [...]


Reading comprehension challenged? I think we had such concerns before...
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Jim Steele » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:37 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Post your links.


There is an old Chinese proverb: Give a Man a Fish, and You Feed Him for a Day. Teach a Man To Fish, and You Feed Him for a Lifetime.

So here Grasshopper is my gift of a lifetime to you:

If I quote you or anybody on this forum, and you want to know from where that quote was obtained, but there is no link. Simply copy a portion of the quote and paste into the Search box at the top of the page. All the posts containing that quote will appear. It takes less than 5 seconds to execute.

Link or no link...

YOU will always be in command!

You are welcome!
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Gord » Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:08 am

https://www.dmi.dk/en/groenland/maaling ... ss-budget/

Here you can follow the daily surface mass balance on the Greenland Ice Sheet. The snow and ice model from one of DMI’s climate models is driven every six hours with snowfall, sunlight and other parameters from a research weather model for Greenland, Hirlam-Newsnow. We can thereby calculate the melting energy, refreezing of melt water and sublimation (snow that evaporates without melting first). The result of this is a change in the snow and ice from one day to the next and this change is shown below. All numbers are in water equivalent, that is, the amount of water the snow and ice would correspond to if it was melted.

The model has been updated in 2014 to better account for meltwater refreezing in the snow, and again in 2015 to account for the lower reflectivity of sunlight in bare ice than in snow. Finally, it has been updated again in 2017 with a more advanced representation of percolation and refreezing of meltwater. At the same time, we have extended the reference period to 1981-2010. The update means that the new maps, values and curves will deviate from the previous ones. Everything shown on this site, however, is calculated with this new model, so that all curves and values are comparable.
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:18 am

Old Chinese Climate Saying: "Lie down with dogs, stand up with fleas."

Here's another one: "Don't be an ass."

If you are going to pull a quote: POST THE LINK.

If you are going to recall a more general statement, you'll be asked for a link.

aka: JS: I have never seen you miss-copy, but I have seen you post material that is actually contradicted by the wider articles you cherry pick from. When you have the link at your finger tips and can take 5 seconds to post it, you are relying on others' good will to spend minutes to find what you refer to and AS STATED: even then, the reference may not be the same. btw: YOU have NO goodwill. I post for guests who may wonder what the deal is.

"No soup for YOU!"

Post your links.
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:24 am

Gord: thanks. I think JS actually provided that link. Then right after that, he quoted a past post of mine but did not provide a link. I'll hold my response until the animal starts wearing shoes and shirt on this forum.
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Gord » Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:29 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Gord: thanks. I think JS actually provided that link.

Oh. Really? Is he arguing against himself?
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Jim Steele » Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:04 am

ROTFLMAO Bobbo,

You demand I give you a link to your own quote??!??! ROTFLMAO

Grasshopper you have been given all the power you need, if the truth is what you truly seek.

So stop whining and stop using the "link" schtick to dodge the issues again and again and again....

You will keep dodging the issues until.. well until Greenland slides into the ocean. hehehehe
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Jim Steele » Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:07 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:aka: JS: I have never seen you miss-copy, but I have seen you post material that is actually contradicted by the wider articles you cherry pick from.


Dam straight I never mis-copy. My evidence is always supported. Differing interpretations about the evidence is not a contradiction so you are fabricating again.

And where's your link mr double standard. ROTFLMAO
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby OutOfBreath » Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:14 am

Gord wrote:Oh. Really? Is he arguing against himself?

Wouldn't be the first time...

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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:51 am

Gord: JS hasn't made an argument. He is just posting a chart and leaving it to us to make it relevant to any issue of note.
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Gord » Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:08 am

I'm pretty sure he's made the claim that Greenland is gaining ice.
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:10 am

Gord: thats an excellent and reasonable guess...... but there are others.

The rapid upward slope should not be confused with a simple recognition of seasonal snowfall. Cherry picking years, duration, and location.

Typical Jimbo.
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