Animals may adapt to global warming.

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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:08 am

The space between stars is enough to say that there will be very few solar collisions. The intersection of gas clouds should kick off some new ones, however.
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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby Major Malfunction » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:14 am

Look at some galactic collision simulations. There are billions of stars just flying off to destination {!#%@}.

Maybe they'd remember to take their planets, maybe not.
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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby Lance Kennedy » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:18 am

MM

The end of the universe is not what we are talking about. Who knows what will happen to humanity's descendents (who will be a different species by then) in the distant future. But the current global warming episode will not be something to kill us all off.

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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby Major Malfunction » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:15 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:
Major Malfunction wrote:You say that with such confidence.

Convince me.

I am sure you are well aware, MM, of the old saying - "A man convinced against his will remains of the same opinion still."

When people hold a prejudiced opinion, based on gut feel instead of credible evidence, they cannot be convinced.

You should be careful of that in yourself. Apply that to your own arguments and positions. That's why we're all here, the entire porpoise, is it not?

Look at my profile rank. Trust me, I'm a True SkepticTM.

Lance Kennedy wrote:But my view is that global warming, while not good, will not be an existential disaster. [That's just your opinion, man! - MM] The reason is simple. Humanity is already adapted to a wider range of climate types than will ever be generated by global warming.

OK, stop. If you take away the fossil fuel subsidy we're currently living on, we can only live where our food grows.

And you can't predict what will happen to the food. Desertification is a real thing, and it's not an ice-cream.

Lance Kennedy wrote:In most of the world, warming will not exceed 4 Celsius, and we already have people living in temperatures of over 35 Celsius and up to 55 Celsius. They have adapted to extremes well beyond anything global warming will throw at us.

Where I live, it's 35C right now. It can get into the high 40's. And then the whole {!#%@} world catches on fire.

So you're saying you don't mind watching the world burn at few higher degrees? Meh. What's the diff?

Lance Kennedy wrote:The continued existence of the human species is not even at question.

Perhaps.

It'll be Mad Max for a while. Revert to stone age nomadic tribes. Hunters and gatherers, maybe some agrarian civilisations.

No starfarers, tho'.

Do you really want to live in that world?
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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby Jim Steele » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:28 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:The space between stars is enough to say that there will be very few solar collisions. The intersection of gas clouds should kick off some new ones, however.


And the space between the CO2 molecules is great enough to allow infrared to escape the earth and cool us every night and every winter
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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby Lance Kennedy » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:35 am

MM

Humans lived in the Sahara under extreme temperatures long before fossil fuels. Mind you, that is not even the way it will turn out. When we say the global temperature may rise 4 Celsius, that is an average. The main temperature rise will be in the Arctic. If their average goes from minus 5 Celsius to plus 5 Celsius, I doubt that will cause too much discomfort to the human residents.

Nor are fossil fuels limiting to human technology. We will have to stop using them sooner or later, but there are numerous alternative sources of energy. For example, once we get the bugs out of thorium nuclear fission (China and India are both working hard on this), we will have unlimited electricity, and that can (with a few technological tweaks in the near future) be used to generate hydrogen gas, which in turn can be turned into methane and methanol for unlimited fuel, which will not add to greenhouse gases.

That is just one example. There are numerous research projects under way to find fossil fuel alternatives, and some will prove to be practical.

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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby Major Malfunction » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:44 am

Thorium is a bad idea. We've covered that in other threads.

What we really want is electrons, potential. And there's plenty of photons floating around out there.

Scaling-up solar tech while we still have the fossil fuel subsidy is a really good idea.

And I've talked about algal biodiesel before, too.
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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby Lance Kennedy » Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:13 am

Whether thorium is a bad idea remains to be seen. The work of developing it is under way. But even if it does turn out to be a bad idea, there are so many more methods being developed. You mentioned solar, which is one. In addition, there are several novel nuclear fission plants under development. In the longer term, even nuclear fusion is a possibility. I seriously doubt that energy will be a limiting factor.

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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:22 am

Google (how likely is human extinction co2) and you can find pop culture concluding any position you wish.

Now, add IPCC to the search and you get: https://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-repo ... AL_SPM.pdf

Of note:

1. A large fraction of species faces increased extinction risk due to climate change during and beyond the 21st century, especially as climate change interacts with other stressors (high confidence). Most plant species cannot naturally shift their geographical ranges sufficiently fast to keep up with current and high projected rates of climate change in most landscapes; most small mammals and freshwater molluscs will not be able to keep up at the rates projected under RCP4.5 and above in flat landscapes in this century (high confidence). Future risk is indicated to be high by the observation that natural global climate change at rates lower than current anthropogenic climate change caused significant ecosystem shifts and species extinctions during the past millions of years. Marine organisms will face progressively lower oxygen levels and high rates and magnitudes of ocean acidification (high confidence), with associated risks exacerbated by rising ocean temperature extremes (medium confidence). Coral reefs and polar ecosystems are highly vulnerable. Coastal systems and low-lying areas are at risk from sea level rise, which will continue for centuries even if the global mean temperature is stabilized (high confidence).

2. Climate change is projected to undermine food security (Figure SPM.9). Due to projected climate change by the mid-21st century
and beyond, global marine species redistribution and marine biodiversity reduction in sensitive regions will challenge the sustained
provision of fisheries productivity and other ecosystem services (high confidence). For wheat, rice and maize in tropical and temper-ate regions, climate change without adaptation is projected to negatively impact production for local temperature increases of 2°C or more above late 20th century levels, although individual locations may benefit (medium confidence). Global tem-perature increases of ~4°C or more13above late 20th century levels, combined with increasing food demand, would pose large risks to food security globally (high confidence). Climate change is projected to reduce renewable surface water and groundwater resources in most dry subtropical regions (robust evidence, high agreement), intensifying competition for water among sectors (limited evidence, medium agreement)

............ and more.

What the IPCC just won't say flat out is what this all means for human survival. My conclusion: WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE. I mean: what else does plants don't grow and there are no fish and no water mean...in the real world?

Just read what is there.
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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby robinson » Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:33 pm

Oh please
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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:52 pm

Without details, link, argument, or point to make....I don't see you ever being pleased. Who "should" bother???
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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby Jim Steele » Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:21 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: My conclusion: WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE. I mean: what else does plants don't grow and there are no fish and no water mean...in the real world?


ROTFLMAO HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa ROTFLMAO
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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:07 am

Sea Level keeps rising................. good for the coral...right?
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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby Lance Kennedy » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:38 am

Bobbo continues to post nonsense.

Global warming may or may not cause extinctions. Humans cause extinction by overhunting/fishing, and by introducing alien predators into new environments. I could name a number of species that went extinct just in my own country from those two causes. I cannot name even one species globally that went extinct due to global warming.

As far as the impact on plant growth is concerned, it is to increase it. Satellite studies show a global increase in plant growth. This may or may not be a good thing, but it is real.

As far as food supply is concerned, the main factors influencing that are human activity, such as the food growing technology, and when and where we farm. Global warming will change the way we grow food, but a warmer and wetter world is unlikely to reduce food production overall.

There are people working right now on developing a way that a colony on Mars can be made self sustaining (recent studies show potatoes will grow in simulated Martian soil.). It is probable that, in the near future, techniques will be developed to permit such a self sustaining colony on Mars. If that is possible, then being self sustaining on an Earth slightly modified by 4 Celsius warming will be a breeze. In other words, we are NOT all gonna die.

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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby Major Malfunction » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:49 am

But our civilisation very well might.
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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:57 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:Bobbo continues to post nonsense.

Global warming may or may not cause extinctions. Humans cause extinction by overhunting/fishing, and by introducing alien predators into new environments. I could name a number of species that went extinct just in my own country from those two causes. I cannot name even one species globally that went extinct due to global warming.

As far as the impact on plant growth is concerned, it is to increase it. Satellite studies show a global increase in plant growth. This may or may not be a good thing, but it is real.

As far as food supply is concerned, the main factors influencing that are human activity, such as the food growing technology, and when and where we farm. Global warming will change the way we grow food, but a warmer and wetter world is unlikely to reduce food production overall.

There are people working right now on developing a way that a colony on Mars can be made self sustaining (recent studies show potatoes will grow in simulated Martian soil.). It is probable that, in the near future, techniques will be developed to permit such a self sustaining colony on Mars. If that is possible, then being self sustaining on an Earth slightly modified by 4 Celsius warming will be a breeze. In other words, we are NOT all gonna die.

As the Major said, our civilization might not survive a serious change in the climate. Your Mars colony proposal requires serious and continuous support from Terra. Most of our society is built from things made a good way away. We might fall to 1850s level technology, or worse. I have no crystal ball, nor does anyone else.
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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby robinson » Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:23 pm

Major Malfunction wrote:But our civilisation very well might.
Can't happen soon enough
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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby Lance Kennedy » Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:39 pm

As I have said before humans are ALREADY fully adapted in some nations to living under temperatures that average 15 Celsius more than the global average*. So a global average warming of 4 Celsius is highly unlikely to do that much harm.

*Global average temperature is approximately 15 Celsius.

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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:49 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:As I have said before humans are ALREADY fully adapted in some nations to living under temperatures that average 15 Celsius more than the global average*. So a global average warming of 4 Celsius is highly unlikely to do that much harm.

*Global average temperature is approximately 15 Celsius.

But you're talking about a few people who can live at the extremes, Kalahari, polar regions, etc. The vast majority of the current population would go down the drain with a 4 degree F rise. Crops fail, weather goes bat-shit, coasts sink, etc. Add one or two more planet-wide disaster and watch the fun.
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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby Lance Kennedy » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:23 pm

Not true, Gawd.

The main impact of global warming will be an average increase in rainfall, and a rise in sea levels. There will be localised areas where rainfall diminishes, but that will be a small part of the globe. The whole thing will be a great big pain in the arse for humanity, but easily survivable.

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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:43 am

Just did some google on the calthrate gun possibility. Seems to have become not the worry it was a few years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clathrate_gun_hypothesis

..........hmmm.......without the methane, I'm nudged to humans surviving....but with another dark age for our technology/civilization. Civilization is quite "thin." Disruptions that can be fixed in 2-3-4 days when the rest of society are up and running will at some point never get "fixed" when the rest of society is stressed as well.

Gets back to another fun issue: the carrying capacity of the Earth. It all comes down to what you assume.... with the truth always being a surprise.
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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:32 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:Not true, Gawd.

The main impact of global warming will be an average increase in rainfall, and a rise in sea levels. There will be localised areas where rainfall diminishes, but that will be a small part of the globe. The whole thing will be a great big pain in the arse for humanity, but easily survivable.

Not true, or you don't like the possibilities?
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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby Lance Kennedy » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:04 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Not true, or you don't like the possibilities?


Not true in that it makes no sense.

What the disaster lovers fail to appreciate is that the full impact of global warming will take 100 years. Look back over the past 100 years and understand how profoundly things have changed. The next 100 years will be as much or more. For example, well before that 100 years is up, we will have robots able to do all humanity's manual work and more. Productivity will go through the roof. This includes agricultural productivity. Food will be no problem. It includes gathering resources such as minerals. There will be no metal shortage. There will be space travel, including mining of precious metals on asteroids. The first company to explore that option is already at work. There may even be nuclear fusion power and a space elevator, both of which would utterly revolutionise our way of life.

A warming of 4 Celsius will be easily coped with, bearing in mind 100 years of technological progress.

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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:28 pm

Okay then.
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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby TJrandom » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:59 pm

Sooo… burn more coal and oil, remove those scrubbers from power plants, eliminate catalectic converters from diesel powered trucks, and revert to 8mpg personal cars - let`s bring it on! After all, nothing to see here, there will be `no harm` to any species. The `warmistas` are simply deluded, looking for headlines and research grant money, and don`t forget – all of those perks when attending conferences – very dishonest. Right?

The wiggle of the deniers is that…

`we are not all going to die due to global warming` - means that there are other causes of death too

`species will survive` - means that some aspect of certain species, their DNA for example, or some portion of it, might live on in some surviving related or new species

`no species has been harmed` - meaning, unless you can demonstrate an extinction caused solely by AGW, bugger off

`species that do extinct` - they were dead-end anyway, so of no consequence, good riddance

`life will find a way` - means that if primitive bacteria can survive locked deep in 50,000 year old crystal structures buried in the earth, that surely some form of life somewhere will survive – not that it will be primate, vertebrate, or intelligent, but nonetheless, `life`

`technology` will come to the rescue – means that for the very few who can afford to live at the top of the food chain, all will be OK. Besides, those who will suffer don`t count anyway.

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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby Lance Kennedy » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:36 pm

TJ

Please do not do the straw man thing.

I have never suggested we burn more coal and oil, etc. It is important to continue to make changes to mitigate global warming. What I do say is that humanity is developing and will continue to develop alternatives. It is interesting that, despite the actions of idiot politicians, the USA is now emitting less CO2 than it has for decades. The reason is another technological advance called fracking. It has made a lot of new natural gas available, and burning natural gas stops people burning coal. That cuts back on emissions.

I did not say no species has been harmed. I said that, to the best of my knowledge, there has been no extinction of a species due only to global warming. At the same time, dozens of species, over the past few decades, have been made extinct through over-hunting, over-fishing, and the introduction of alien predators. So on this issue, global warming is less important than other human activity.

Technology is already coming to the rescue. Apart from the fracking, I read today that 27% of the increased corn production in the USA over the past 80 years is due to cleaner air, meaning more sunshine hitting the crops.

Global warming is real, it is caused by human activity, and it is important that humans work both to mitigate it and to adapt to it. I never deny any of those three points. I just deny the idiots who think it will kill off the human species. It will not.

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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:38 pm

T.rump said he'd bring back coal. The head of the EPA doesn't believe in global warming. We're {!#%@}.
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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby TJrandom » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:48 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:TJ

Please do not do the straw man thing.

I have never suggested we burn more coal and oil, etc. It is important to continue to make changes to mitigate global warming. What I do say is that humanity is developing and will continue to develop alternatives. It is interesting that, despite the actions of idiot politicians, the USA is now emitting less CO2 than it has for decades. The reason is another technological advance called fracking. It has made a lot of new natural gas available, and burning natural gas stops people burning coal. That cuts back on emissions.

I did not say no species has been harmed. I said that, to the best of my knowledge, there has been no extinction of a species due only to global warming. At the same time, dozens of species, over the past few decades, have been made extinct through over-hunting, over-fishing, and the introduction of alien predators. So on this issue, global warming is less important than other human activity.

Technology is already coming to the rescue. Apart from the fracking, I read today that 27% of the increased corn production in the USA over the past 80 years is due to cleaner air, meaning more sunshine hitting the crops.

Global warming is real, it is caused by human activity, and it is important that humans work both to mitigate it and to adapt to it. I never deny any of those three points. I just deny the idiots who think it will kill off the human species. It will not.


Thanks for that... and for clarity, my post was not directed at you. If it were, I would have quoted you or explicitly directed it to you. But it is a good straw-man, and for many deniers not a straw-man at all - but truly representative of their views and rhetoric.

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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:07 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:What the disaster lovers fail to appreciate is that the full impact of global warming will take 100 years. Look back over the past 100 years and understand how profoundly things have changed. The next 100 years will be as much or more. For example, well before that 100 years is up, we will have robots able to do all humanity's manual work and more. Productivity will go through the roof. This includes agricultural productivity. Food will be no problem. It includes gathering resources such as minerals. There will be no metal shortage.


golly gee whiz bang. Just when I'm starting to moderate my WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE meme because of Lance's contra position, he whammies me with the very ironical SCIENCE DENYING images and tropes from Science FICTION. There is something quite seductive here. Hope over Reason. I wondered where Lance's Rhapsody was going, and it went real fast:

Lance Kennedy wrote: There will be space travel, including mining of precious metals on asteroids.


Ha, ha.................so Lance's analysis has us leaving Earth. You can't get more descriptive than this.

Will the full impact of AGW not be felt for 100 years?

I don't know "WHAT" that means. Lance: what will be going on 100 years from now that you assess as "the full impact?" Why the "need" to go to space for minerals or whatever (water?) if robots will be mining all we need for essentially free? Just what is being fantasized in the imaginary world of yours?
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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby Jim Steele » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:12 am

I didnt vote for Trump but finally a government that is not driven by climate paranoia. More objective science is on the way.
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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby TJrandom » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:18 am

JIm Steele wrote:I didnt vote for Trump but finally a government that is not driven by climate paranoia. MoreNo objective science is on the way.


FIFY

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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby Lance Kennedy » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:29 am

Bobbo

Interesting to note the difference between your response, and Gawd's. Gawd replied in a measured and rational way, while you went irrational and hysterical.

Some aspects of science fiction have always been accurate predictions. Not all, of course, and you need rational thought, and some vision to determine which. Robots and asteroid mining are among the accurate ones. Robots, because the revolution in robotics has already started, and can only get more sophisticated. Asteroid mining because the initial work has been done, showing the riches available there, and because visionary businessmen are already planning and making initial investments. Asteroids, by the way, are particularly rich in rare minerals, which are of high value like platinum.

These are not science denying. They are science affirming.

The full impact of global warming in 100 years means it will take that long before humanity is seriously affected. For example, sea level rise right now is 3 mm per year. At that rate, in 100 years, sea levels will rise 30 cms (or for Americans, about one foot.). Of course, that is an average, and some places will experience more rise. But it will take 100 years before the rise, even in those worst places, is sufficient to require the construction of massive sea walls. In the same way, if temperatures are to rise 4 Celsius on average, then it will take at least 100 years for the 4 degree rise.

I do not know why you see this as difficult.

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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:54 am

Lance....your analysis is stuck on the rosy best case scenario assuming none of the unknowns ever take place. I do see the appeal in that approach.....It's just a bit too much head in the sand for me.

If there is anything that one generation owes to the next its a place in which to raise the following generation. Giving our future over to the interests of Big Fossil so that wealth extraction and disparity can further concentrate and accelerate just doesn't fulfill the Prime Directive. Our failure to recognize the less than most rosy scenarios is going to negate the future we "could have had" that you describe.

"The full impact of global warming in 100 years means it will take that long before humanity is seriously affected."//// Now, there's a statement I need to roll over in my mind. You are limiting the effect of AGW to only sea level rise? Not the associated acidification? Not the climate shifts as far as rain patterns and arable land? Not species extinction? The whole host of known and unknown associated effects? Not the one million deaths caused by climate relocation due to drought already experienced? (The Syrian drought/civil war.)

"Rosey" isn't the right descriptor. "Serious" taken to mean what happens to you personally, and not the rest of humanity?
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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:21 am

A quick read with nice graphs: https://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/unfccc/cop19/3_ ... 3sbsta.pdf

The IPCC review of sea level rise by 2100. Worst case is one meter: assuming no total collapse of an ice cap anywhere. Best case is the one foot. I'll take the average.

Add two foot average to high tides and Perfect Storms....and how much coastal area will no longer be available to humans in 2100?............ and as the report states: the sea level will continue to rise after 2100 as well. ie: the Worst Case is not an end point..... just a point along the way.
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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby Lance Kennedy » Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:56 am

Bobbo

You are living in disaster-land, which is only half a step from fairyland.

Sea level rise, if every gram of ice on all the mountains of the world, all the ice in the Arctic, and all the ice in the Antarctic melted (which aint gonna happen) would be 60 meters. That would remove 5% of the land area of the planet. Think humanity might be able to survive on the remaining 95%???

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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:52 am

Lance: try to keep up.

The discussion is about civilization................. civilization before and after sea level change too rapid to "move" cities. Can humans survive without every major coastal city? Of course. How many?

It will be much akin to all the animals on the endangered species list right now. Your position: they are still here, so no worries. My position: they are still here at less than 1% of their natural population.

So yeah: fairytale land: 1% of human beings living on 95% of the land that is not underwater.

btw: given that co2 loading will continue and become even more onerous and tipping points can be reached causing overnight sea level rises of 20 feet or more......what is going to stop the sea level from rising in the next 2-300 years by 180 feet SWAMPING ALL MAJOR COASTAL CITIES.

Fairytale?.....or with your attitude, impossible to avoid?
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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby TJrandom » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:03 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:Bobbo

You are living in disaster-land, which is only half a step from fairyland.

Sea level rise, if every gram of ice on all the mountains of the world, all the ice in the Arctic, and all the ice in the Antarctic melted (which aint gonna happen) would be 60 meters. That would remove 5% of the land area of the planet. Think humanity might be able to survive on the remaining 95%???


That 60 meters would make Japan virtually uninhabitable, and if not uninhabitable – certainly economically unviable. Japan has over 70% of its land mass as mountains and only 12% arable land that is almost all below that 60 meter mark. Of course all ports and most of the industrial capacity would be far below this.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... opo_en.jpg

I realise that 60 meters was given as an extreme – but even a 10 meter rise would wipe out most agriculture – except that which would by necessity move to greenhouse operations high in the mountains.

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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:57 am

Not a disaster if Washington, New York, Miami, Los Angeles, ... , sink, now is it?
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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:25 pm

TJ: I've always related to Japan as a Fairytale type of place. I think step Number 10,000 up Mnt Fuji made me that way. do you take any comfort that said scenario won't play out for 200 years?.......and RIGHT NOW....hard to see how it will be avoided?

Gawd: yeah......thats great. Bring politics into it. Jeesh!!! (You missed Baltimore and Philly!)
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Re: Animals may adapt to global warming.

Postby OutOfBreath » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:23 pm

Lance, there's a difference betweeen imagining possible solutions, to actually making them viable in the here-and-now. Space will be irrelevant to "save us" for centuries to come. Talking of science fiction, I like Kim Stanley Robinson's writings of the future solar system. But even with a fully colonized solar system and every sphere out there terraformed, humanity still relies heavily on the sheer mass of people and production that is Terra, for among other things, soil production. That's quite realistic in my view. Many colonies would perish quite quickly (and did historically) if they were not continously supported from "the motherland" for an extended period of time.

Now, I'm not in the "we're all gonna die" camp. But I am in the "it's going to be rough and probably get rougher, especially if we dont take this seriously" camp. That species adapt over time is a no-brainer. But if change happens too fast, the species we rely on, or species the species we rely on rely on may not make it or take a big hit with repercussions for us. (fun sentence) Our civilization is quite thin if resource scarcity or extreme inequality ensues.

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