Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:52 pm

more on Bannon's problems in Sweden - fortfarande inte intressant för oss [still not interesting to us] - the Sweden Democrats are declining to be part of the Trumpintern, the Moscow Pact, and Bannon's Small Government Directorate:

"Trumpism Is Thriving In Sweden By Carefully Ignoring Donald Trump: The Swedes, who heartily dislike the U.S. president, may soon give his anti-immigrant allies their best election result ever"

"Populist Power-Broker in Sweden Has No Use for Bannon or Russia"

Bannon's anti-welfare state ideology, in fact, seems to have him out of tune with Europe's populist-nationalist right wing parties.
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:43 am

Here's an article on Germany arguing that AfD is being radicalized by a younger, more Nazi inflected cohort and speculating that these more extreme elements of AfD view Bannon's European directorate favorably: "Germany's far-right AfD increasingly radicalized by its grassroots, experts warn: Many prominent members of the far-right Alternative for Germany are seemingly unafraid of espousing racist ideology and historical revisionism. Experts warn the organization is becoming increasingly radicalized."
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:51 pm

self-outing video made by the rampantly ignorant thugs who invaded Bookmarks in London (UKIP has had to suspend 3 of its members involved in the attack):

[bbvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9J6r9Q2DGI[/bbvideo]
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:13 am

A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by Balmoral95 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:53 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:self-outing video made by the rampantly ignorant thugs who invaded Bookmarks in London (UKIP has had to suspend 3 of its members involved in the attack):

[bbvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9J6r9Q2DGI[/bbvideo]
Arseholus Brittanicus caught on vid in the wild... This example doesn't look particularly healthy...

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:02 pm

The Brits don't dress like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, as does the American variety, Arseholus Trumpidiculous:

Image
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by ElectricMonk » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:32 pm

Europeans aren't as driven by fads as Americans are: I have yet to meet someone who thinks that there is an easy solution to all the problems that come with having a common market, currency and border. That is why radical parties in Europe have such a high turnover: either they have very narrow goals (like UKIP with the Brexit), which makes them obsolete the moment they achieve said goal; or they are so unfocused in their ideology that they undergo constant shift in direction to more and more fringe viewpoints.
There is nothing someone like Bannon could do to create any lasting effect. What's worse for him, EU companies and billionaires are well aware of the benefits of the EU market and won't sponsor firebrands just for the fun of it.

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by landrew » Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:53 pm

One word: "Slacktivism."
Throwing your support behind a trendy cause while actually doing nothing,
and then forgetting about it a few weeks later, as other distractions catch your attention.
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:13 pm

Strange ...

Image
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:40 pm

The news isn’t all crappy. People still think Nazis suck:
https://www.dw.com/en/german-town-stand ... a-45028009
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by Denying-History » Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:42 am

> Holocaust Deniers allowed on Facebook.
>Alex Jones not.

Anyone making sense of this? Sorry if its the wrong chat...
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
Joseph E. Davies

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:01 pm

Easy. Zuckerberg.
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:55 pm

AfD on Bannon's efforts to build a Trumpintern:
Der frühere Chefstratege von US-Präsident Donald Trump, Steve Bannon, will zur Europawahl im kommenden Jahr rechtspopulistische Parteien in der EU stärken. Welche Kontakte gibt es zur AfD?

Gauland: Meine Kollegin Alice Weidel hat sich einmal mit Herrn Bannon getroffen. Ich sehe aber keine großen Möglichkeiten einer Zusammenarbeit. Wir sind nicht in Amerika. Die Interessenlage der systemoppositionellen Parteien in Europa ist doch sehr unterschiedlich. Die AfD hat engere Kontakte nur nach Österreich zur FPÖ. Frauke Petry wollte immer mit dem französischen Front National zusammenarbeiten, das hat ja auch nicht funktioniert. Herrn Bannon wird es nicht gelingen, zur Europawahl eine Allianz von Gleichgesinnten zu schmieden.
https://www.waz.de/politik/gauland-ja-i ... 62463.html
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by landrew » Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:27 pm

The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by Jeff_36 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:39 pm

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-45123605

The same basket of deplorables who organized the Charlottsville Obscenity last year are planning a second rally in Washington DC, and have recived permission to do so.

What they might not know (and Im happy they didnt figure it out) is that the Metropolitan Police Department of the District of Columbia is 60% black, and therefore would love the opportunity to do a bit of Nazi bashing.

I predict a beatdown of epic proportions. :)

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:12 pm

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=27755&start=40#p655462
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=27755&start=40#p655494

OTOH I watched hours of live-feeds from Portland (Proud Boys + Patriot Prayer) last weekend, on Unicorn Riot (left), a FB account (right), and local TV news and saw that, whilst the Antifas remain {!#%@} and counter-productive, the main problem was the militarized police force of the "liberal" city, which worked with the far right groups and attacked the counter-protesters violently. Police are police are police.
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by Jeff_36 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:01 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Police are police are police.
I don't knock them, generally speaking. It's a murderously difficult job (my old man did it for 31 years, I saw how hard it was on him as I grew up) and the issues in Portland seemed to stem more from poor tactics than from out-and-out coordinated, planned cooperation.

DC will be very different because almost every cop there will be black, and therefore would be excited at the opportunity to play whack-a-mole with dumb Nazis. That is the key factor here. I bet most of the boys in blue have the date circled on their calendars by now. I plan on watching it live with chips and guac.

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by Jeff_36 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:28 pm

And on a side note: I am uncertain as to which is funnier - a patently senile Trump rambling incoherently about the "Space Force" or a very clear-headed Pence talking about it with a straight face and not a hint of irony.

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:45 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:I don't knock them, generally speaking. . . .
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=27755&p=655578#p655578
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:52 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:And on a side note: I am uncertain as to which is funnier - a patently senile Trump rambling incoherently about the "Space Force" or a very clear-headed Pence talking about it with a straight face and not a hint of irony.
btw I would like to know where I can get a text massage
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by Balmoral95 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:12 pm

I predict a beatdown of epic proportions.
Highly unlikely.

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by Jeff_36 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:09 am

Balmoral95 wrote:
I predict a beatdown of epic proportions.
Highly unlikely.
What would happen if the KKK walked through Harlem in 1961?

This is the rough demographic equivalent.

Im just hopeful. Hope is not dead.

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by Balmoral95 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:39 am

Jeff_36 wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote:
I predict a beatdown of epic proportions.
Highly unlikely.
What would happen if the KKK walked through Harlem in 1961?

This is the rough demographic equivalent.

Im just hopeful. Hope is not dead.

Except that was '61 and this is now.... demographic equivalent, perhaps, but where we started was with the black folk being cops, not civilians.

I lived in Brooklyn in '61. The cops were predominantly white Irish and Italian, with a smattering of Jews and Poles.

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:59 am

No word on where to get a text massage?
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:29 am

He seems nice: Swedish Nazi arrested for planned murder of journalists

I've heard, OTOH, that the media are full of disgusting people, the worst people, reporters who lie and who are enemies of the people. Right?
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by Jeff_36 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:07 pm

Balmoral95 wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote:
I predict a beatdown of epic proportions.
Highly unlikely.
What would happen if the KKK walked through Harlem in 1961?

This is the rough demographic equivalent.

Im just hopeful. Hope is not dead.

Except that was '61 and this is now.... demographic equivalent, perhaps, but where we started was with the black folk being cops, not civilians.

I lived in Brooklyn in '61. The cops were predominantly white Irish and Italian, with a smattering of Jews and Poles.
What I meant was that you have a large gang of white supremacists faced off against an even larger group of angry black people, who in this case are armed with guns and clubs.

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:53 pm

I found this piece to be immensely effective in its simplicity, hard hitting in its righteous indignation, and refreshing overall - Stephen Miller's uncle telling the quintessentially American story of the Miller (Glosser) family and relating the Trump administration's nativist immigration policies to the family's history: "Stephen Miller Is an Immigration Hypocrite. I Know Because I’m His Uncle. If my nephew’s ideas on immigration had been in force a century ago, our family would have been wiped out." (in this thread for the nativist angle and I don't know where else to effing put the link!)
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:35 pm

Powerful story. I saw that this morning but didn’t get a chance to read it.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:33 pm

What happened in Sweden last night

(video here)

(I am headed to Sweden this week, in fact to one of the cities where these burnings occurred. In recent weeks the far-right Sweden Democrats have lost a point or so in the polls and the Social Democrats have regained support. Before last night’s “partying.” In a poll asking which party leader is most trusted, the leaders of the right-wing Moderaterna and of the Left, which won 5% of the vote in 2014 but is now polling at about twice that, came in first and second respectively, Stefan Löfven of the Social Democrats was third and Jamie Åkesson of the Sweden Democrats mustered only fifth.)
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:09 am

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.pr ... -1.6366354

Nathan retweeted this. Great article.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:28 pm

While my wife and I had lunch today in Mitte at least 50 Polizei vans, each full of cops, sped by with sirens wailing. They were likely heading to Spandau where, it turns out, 100s of neo-Nazis were to march on the anniversary of Hess’s suicide and where even more leftist counter demonstrators were to oppose them. We were likely too far from the area to get there in time for the marches and, more importantly, uncertain about exactly where this all was going on. So kept our original plan and walked over to the Topography of Terror museum (https://www.topographie.de/en/exhibitions/), located at the former site of the Gestapo (and its prison), SS headquarters, and RSHA offices. That is a very good museum; I was struck by the number of photos I had not yet seen. The exhibits were so packed that it was a little tricky to get around, and we spent over two and a half hours there. I really recommend this museum.

We later walked past where the bunker and famous garden were located, next to the Reich Chancellery, and gave two quiet cheers for the demise of the Führer.

https://www.dw.com/en/demonstrators-pro ... a-45127062

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IuhYErF_ZBk

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/artic ... -in-berlin
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by Balmoral95 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:11 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:While my wife and I had lunch today in Mitte at least 50 Polizei vans, each full of cops, sped by with sirens wailing. They were likely heading to Spandau where, it turns out, 100s of neo-Nazis were to march on the anniversary of Hess’s suicide and where even more leftist counter demonstrators were to oppose them. We were likely too far from the area to get there in time for the marches and, more importantly, uncertain about exactly where this all was going on. So kept our original plan and walked over to the Topography of Terror museum (https://www.topographie.de/en/exhibitions/), located at the former site of the Gestapo (and its prison), SS headquarters, and RSHA offices. That is a very good museum; I was struck by the number of photos I had not yet seen. The exhibits were so packed that it was a little tricky to get around, and we spent over two and a half hours there. I really recommend this museum.

We later walked past where the bunker and famous garden were located, next to the Reich Chancellery, and gave two quiet cheers for the demise of the Führer.

https://www.dw.com/en/demonstrators-pro ... a-45127062

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IuhYErF_ZBk

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/artic ... -in-berlin
Back in '78 on my first trip there, the ToT was more a tour thing: Started at Prinz Albrecht Sts. and moved on to the Bendlerblock, Ploetzensee, ie, much more oriented to July 20 rather than more general as now?

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:56 am

Balmoral95 wrote:Back in '78 on my first trip there, the ToT was more a tour thing: Started at Prinz Albrecht Sts. and moved on to the Bendlerblock, Ploetzensee, ie, much more oriented to July 20 rather than more general as now?
Now, little on July 20, a very good, compact, overview of the the development of the Third Reich and its security/terror apparatus. My wife - who does not read about the Third Reich and has not talked to Nazis on line for years - found it really impactful and helpful to her understanding. It does a good job of contextualizing, and humanizing, the people involved; in the case of the perpetrators, this is to their detriment in a way. The name of Prinz Albrecht Strasse has been changed to Niederkirchnerstrasse, which confused the hell out of me until I figured it out. I kept thinking Prinz Albrecth Strasse 8, not Niederkirchnerstasse 8!
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by Balmoral95 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:37 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote:Back in '78 on my first trip there, the ToT was more a tour thing: Started at Prinz Albrecht Sts. and moved on to the Bendlerblock, Ploetzensee, ie, much more oriented to July 20 rather than more general as now?
Now, little on July 20, a very good, compact, overview of the the development of the Third Reich and its security/terror apparatus. My wife - who does not read about the Third Reich and has not talked to Nazis on line for years - found it really impactful and helpful to her understanding. It does a good job of contextualizing, and humanizing, the people involved; in the case of the perpetrators, this is to their detriment in a way. The name of Prinz Albrecht Strasse has been changed to Niederkirchnerstrasse, which confused the hell out of me until I figured it out. I kept thinking Prinz Albrecth Strasse 8, not Niederkirchnerstasse 8!
Thanks, I'm probably mis-remembering some of it... but defo the emphasis then was July 20.

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:11 pm

Look, it’s the face of the Republican Party all scrubbed free of the makeup:
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... rs-697379/
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by Jeff_36 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:37 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Look, it’s the face of the Republican Party all scrubbed free of the makeup:
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... rs-697379/
John Fitzgerald would fit in easily at RODOH. What is especially disturbing here is Steve King - once considered a reliably mainstream GOPer - plumbing the depths of the "alt-lite" and seemingly degenerating by the day. It is (IMHO) a testament to the decline of the mainstream GOP as a force in American politics (*akin to Ocasio-Cortez's win in NY -both parties seem to be embracing dangerous extremists).

My job has left me far busier these days than when I was a 19 year old student first posting here, but I will never quit. Apologies for my absence.

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by Jeff_36 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:39 am

(cont'd)
Walker, who has declared “God is a racist and a white supremacist” and all Jewish people “descend from Satan,” won the Republican primary in May.
?!??!?!??!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!???!??!

IS THIS A PARODY OF REAL LIFE!??!

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by Jeff_36 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:42 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:He seems nice: Swedish Nazi arrested for planned murder of journalists

I've heard, OTOH, that the media are full of disgusting people, the worst people, reporters who lie and who are enemies of the people. Right?
We may not like the press but this rhetoric hearkens back to Stalinist purges. I would not be surprised to see this plot repeated in the USA by some alt-right splinter group (there are so many).

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:58 am

But what you don't realize is that truth isn't truth anymore ...
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Post by Jeff_36 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:22 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:But what you don't realize is that truth isn't truth anymore ...
Freedom is slavery, truth are lies, war is peace

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