We are the problem child of creation

Creationism, Intelligent Design, and Evolution.
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landrew
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We are the problem child of creation

Post by landrew » Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:40 pm

We are a problematic form of humanoid. Our reptilian origin gives us amazing resilience and it makes us fierce competitors, but our teething problems are many. We have faced extinction before, and it still remains to be seen whether we won't eventually destroy ourselves. Evolution has delivered us to a curious place, but I am hopeful that our humanity will eventually come through and transform us into a sustainable species.
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Re: We are the problem child of creation

Post by Lance Kennedy » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:12 pm

We need to survive another 1000 years, and we will then be scattered well beyond planet Earth. Extinction is then almost impossible.

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Re: We are the problem child of creation

Post by landrew » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:40 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:We need to survive another 1000 years, and we will then be scattered well beyond planet Earth. Extinction is then almost impossible.
I'm not nearly as optimistic as you my friend.
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Re: We are the problem child of creation

Post by Lance Kennedy » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:15 pm

Hope you are not as pessimistic as Bobbo. He claims humanity is gonna die.

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Re: We are the problem child of creation

Post by scrmbldggs » Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:04 am

:hmm: Spelling?
.
Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: We are the problem child of creation

Post by Lance Kennedy » Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:25 am

Quoting.

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Re: We are the problem child of creation

Post by landrew » Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:45 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:Hope you are not as pessimistic as Bobbo. He claims humanity is gonna die.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam%27s_Curse

The Y chromosome has atrophied to the point of containing only 1 critical gene, that for switching on male development of the fetus. When that fails to happen, all fetuses develop as females.
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Re: We are the problem child of creation

Post by Lance Kennedy » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:33 pm

Hope you are not serious about that crackpot idea, landrew.

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Re: We are the problem child of creation

Post by gorgeous » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:48 pm

alien that looks like a troll said to human--- "one day you will look exactly like us"...
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Re: We are the problem child of creation

Post by Gord » Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:24 am

landrew wrote:
Lance Kennedy wrote:Hope you are not as pessimistic as Bobbo. He claims humanity is gonna die.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam%27s_Curse

The Y chromosome has atrophied to the point of containing only 1 critical gene, that for switching on male development of the fetus. When that fails to happen, all fetuses develop as females.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC518678/
Adam’s curse A future without men
Reviewed by Kevin Jon Williams

...Unfortunately, the third part of the book sinks it. It’s a hodgepodge of self-referential stories, amateurish poetic allegory, and overly gene-centric speculations that a lay reader might mistake for established fact....

...And then there’s the alleged fragility of our Y chromosome. In 5,000 generations (125,000 years), men will lose 99% of their fertility, he says. Scientists used to predict that their work would have practical consequences within 5-10 years, but that turned out to be testable — and only rarely correct (s18, s19). How do we test Sykes’s assertion? Five thousand generations in a mouse is only about 1,000 years, but the mouse Y chromosome does not appear to be in accelerated danger. The same is the case with fruit flies, which generate even faster. His proposed solutions to our alleged problem include human germline engineering, but there is no serious discussion of the immense technical — and ethical — difficulties. We have not been able to engineer our germline just to cure sickle cell disease, even though its molecular basis has been known for more than half a century (s20). And constructing a virulent virus to destroy Y chromosomes “would not really be difficult to achieve.” No wonder lots of layfolk don’t trust us.

If your neurosis is about threats to masculinity, try Y: the last man, a comic book series about, literally, the last living man, who’s being hunted by a gang of lesbian Amazons (s21). In the real world, I wouldn’t worry. There’s a good book in here somewhere, but despite some fine sections, Adam’s curse: a future without men desperately needs an editor’s scalpel — plus a dose of common sense....
The Journal of Clinical Investigation is a monthly peer-reviewed medical journal covering biomedical research. It was established in 1924 and is published by the American Society for Clinical Investigation.

Kevin Jon Williams, MD, is a professor at Temple University with expertise in Cardiology, Nutrition and Dietetics, Diabetology.
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Re: We are the problem child of creation

Post by Poodle » Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:52 am

landrew wrote:We are a problematic form of humanoid ...
We are the ONLY form of humanoid. It will serve us well, or it won't. We will certainly inherit the earth (that's already job done). Whether we survive much longer is down to how stupid we are as a species, not wishful thinking. So far, we're cuspish - brilliant and stupid in approximately equal measures. Time will, indeed, tell.

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Re: We are the problem child of creation

Post by Lance Kennedy » Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:13 am

On loss of the Y chromosome.

Ain't gonna happen. Why not ?

1. A little thing called evolution. Any man who has a defective Y chromosome is not going to father sons. All the males of any new generation will be the offspring of men with intact Y chromosomes. Thus the Y chromosome will be preserved.

2. In the future, humanity will be controlling its own genetics via genetic engineering. What will these future geneticists do ? With respect to the Y chromosome, logically they will strengthen it.

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Re: We are the problem child of creation

Post by landrew » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:49 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:On loss of the Y chromosome.

Ain't gonna happen. Why not ?

1. A little thing called evolution. Any man who has a defective Y chromosome is not going to father sons. All the males of any new generation will be the offspring of men with intact Y chromosomes. Thus the Y chromosome will be preserved.

2. In the future, humanity will be controlling its own genetics via genetic engineering. What will these future geneticists do ? With respect to the Y chromosome, logically they will strengthen it.
Take it up with Bryan Sykes. I'm sure he'd love to have you dismantle his work.
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Re: We are the problem child of creation

Post by Lance Kennedy » Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:41 pm

Sykes would not be the first overqualified guy to spout total crap.

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Re: We are the problem child of creation

Post by landrew » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:14 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:Sykes would not be the first overqualified guy to spout total crap.
Try to refute with more than denial.
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Re: We are the problem child of creation

Post by Lance Kennedy » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:37 pm

Landrew

I have already done so.
The loss of the Y chromosome is not going to happen for the two reasons I have already given.

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Re: We are the problem child of creation

Post by landrew » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:51 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:Landrew

I have already done so.
The loss of the Y chromosome is not going to happen for the two reasons I have already given.
I've given it a fair amount of thought, having worked in genetics and studying it at a graduate level. I believe it could happen, if left alone, although we will likely solve it ourselves using genetics.

When an organism evolves to the point where a chromosome has only 1 critical gene, as in our case, we are precariously close to a time when the Y chromosome continues to weaken to the point where it can no longer support that gene.

A solution may be to restore many of the missing genes from the second X chromosome, back to the Y chromosome. For example, males have a much higher rate of color-blindness compared to females due to the double-redundancy of X-chromosome genes. That way, we can buy more time for the males of our species.
Late edit: I should mention that the critical gene on the Y chromosome is the one which turns on development of the testes. Without it, the fetus develops as a female. Some females are XY due to a defective gene on the Y.
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Re: We are the problem child of creation

Post by Lance Kennedy » Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:48 pm

Landrew

I agree that humanity will develop the ability to solve this ourselves. But I doubt it will be a problem. If the last gene becomes defective, it will do so in certain individuals, not in all male humans. The guys with defective genes will not produce male offspring. That means all male offspring will be descended from males without defective genes, and the healthy gene will thus be conserved.

In fact, in such a situation, the evolutionary 'force ' driving this selection will be very potent indeed.

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Re: We are the problem child of creation

Post by landrew » Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:03 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:Landrew

I agree that humanity will develop the ability to solve this ourselves. But I doubt it will be a problem. If the last gene becomes defective, it will do so in certain individuals, not in all male humans. The guys with defective genes will not produce male offspring. That means all male offspring will be descended from males without defective genes, and the healthy gene will thus be conserved.

In fact, in such a situation, the evolutionary 'force ' driving this selection will be very potent indeed.
I don't discount Bryan Sykes as a quack. I defer to his expertise to a certain degree.
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Re: We are the problem child of creation

Post by Lance Kennedy » Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:58 am

landrew wrote: I don't discount Bryan Sykes as a quack. I defer to his expertise to a certain degree.
Which I understand.
But it is worth realising that there are very intelligent and very well qualified people who keep coming up with ideas based on a few facts which turn out to be garbage. A lot of this is confirmation bias. It is very human to search out data that supports personal ideas and ignore data that does not.

Recently I was introduced to a book written by an expert medical guy, who decided that, because excess sugar is unhealthy, that eating fruit was bad for you. His "logic " was fine. But flawed. Despite this guys high qualifications, he was wrong, wrong, wrong. That is illustrated by the fact that ALL reputable health organisations recommend a good variety of fruit as part of your diet. The truth emerges, not from logic and reasoning which is flawed, but from empirical studies.

Brian Sykes, like so many others, dug out a bunch of true facts, and used them as the basis for a process of logic and reasoning to draw a conclusion which is incorrect. Logic and reasoning, as I have said before, is an excellent way of making mistakes with perfect confidence. What Sykes predicted should be observable even today, and it is not seen. Empiricism defeats reasoning.

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Re: We are the problem child of creation

Post by landrew » Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:48 pm

Declaring someone's informed and expert opinion as "wrong."

I'm not comfortable with such certitudes.
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Re: We are the problem child of creation

Post by Lance Kennedy » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:11 pm

Informed and expert opinion based on logic and reasoning is always suspect. Always double check such opinions.