Scientists discover evidence of early human innovation, pushing back evolutionary timeline

Creationism, Intelligent Design, and Evolution.
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landrew
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Re: Scientists discover evidence of early human innovation, pushing back evolutionary timeline

Postby landrew » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:51 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:
landrew wrote:Well, that's why it's called a "theory."
Not yet a fact or a fallacy.



I see you've already been pounded for this, so I'll be gentle. Like many who have been tailing creationists for 30 years or more, I'm sensitive to their "only a theory" shibboleth. There is no opposition between fact and theory, any more than there is opposition between building materials and architecture. Of course, they aren't the same thing, but they do share a claim to be true (with the usual fuzziness of anything human beings "know" at a given time). I don't like to encourage creationists when they play to their knuckle-walking, mouth-breathing audience, who think a "theory" is just some outlandish fantasy off the top of some idle academic's head.

Thanks, I'm fine. I just don't get all hung up on dictionary definitions, because they are essentially just someone's opinion. There's sometimes a fairly wide margin of interpretation between hypothesis and theory, usually based on consensus, which as we know can be completely wrong. Anyhow, I've lost track of what the main point was all about.
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Re: Scientists discover evidence of early human innovation, pushing back evolutionary timeline

Postby Lance Kennedy » Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:18 am

The business of what makes a theory is actually important.

In science, the word 'theory' means something quite different to what it means in common usage. When a religious ignoramus says "It is just a theory", he is revealing his ignorance.

In science, we have the idea of a hypothesis, which is a trial explanation for something. But a theory is not a hypothesis. A hypothesis can BECOME a theory. It does this by being repeatedly tested using proper scientific tests, and failing to be falsified. Then the idea becomes considered to be much more sound, or a strong model of reality. It is then called a theory.

Most scientific theories, viewed by non scientists, are so strong as to be almost 'certain'. So the atomic theory is now regarded as being such a strong model of reality that no sane person argues against it. The same applies to the theory of evolution, for which encyclopedic amounts of evidence exist. Only a religious nut case will argue against this idea.

In science, a theory is NOT some kind of speculation. It is so well tested that it is a very, very strong concept.

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Re: Scientists discover evidence of early human innovation, pushing back evolutionary timeline

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:30 am

It's one step below a "law".
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Re: Scientists discover evidence of early human innovation, pushing back evolutionary timeline

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:34 am

lmftfy:

landrew wrote: I just don't get all hung up on dictionary definitions, because I don't care to learn anything and am very compfortable in my ignorance of not knowing the difference between right and wrong.


landrew wrote: There's sometimes a fairly wide margin of interpretation between hypothesis and theory, usually based on consensus, .
No, there isn't. You are jut conflating the very difference that Lance has pointed out. Prove me wrong: like what? Give an example.

landrew wrote: which as we know can be completely wrong.
Again..."in modern times" you can't name a single example of this being the case. EG: Newton was not completely wrong when Einstein provided a more comprehensive theory.....or is it a law now? (smile!). No...Laws and Theories are superceded by still maintain their truth in the contexts in which they are valid. Just as flat maps continue to function quite well for driving your Parents house for Thanksgiving.

landrew wrote: Anyhow, I've lost track of what the main point was all about.
Hey!!!!!==>we agree.
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Re: Scientists discover evidence of early human innovation, pushing back evolutionary timeline

Postby landrew » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:21 pm

Basically, it's a theory if you don't like it, and a hypothesis if you do.
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Re: Scientists discover evidence of early human innovation, pushing back evolutionary timeline

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:37 pm

landrew wrote:Basically, it's a theory if you don't like it, and a hypothesis if you do.

Incorrect and probably backwards as well.
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Re: Scientists discover evidence of early human innovation, pushing back evolutionary timeline

Postby landrew » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:42 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
landrew wrote:Basically, it's a theory if you don't like it, and a hypothesis if you do.

Incorrect and probably backwards as well.

Refute with denial. It's just that easy.
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Re: Scientists discover evidence of early human innovation, pushing back evolutionary timeline

Postby Cadmusteeth » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:50 pm

He’s saying it’s not that simple. If the evidence supports it overwhelmingly from multiple fields then it becomes a theory. If the evidence has not* been found then it remains a hypothesis. It doesn’t matter whether you like it or not.

*forgot to add that
Last edited by Cadmusteeth on Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Scientists discover evidence of early human innovation, pushing back evolutionary timeline

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:59 pm

landrew wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
landrew wrote:Basically, it's a theory if you don't like it, and a hypothesis if you do.

Incorrect and probably backwards as well.

Refute with denial. It's just that easy.

Actually, I was being dismissive. You don't qualify for refutations no matter how fluffy they are.
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Re: Scientists discover evidence of early human innovation, pushing back evolutionary timeline

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:00 pm

Cadmusteeth wrote:He’s saying it’s not that simple. If the evidence supports it overwhelmingly from multiple fields then it becomes a theory. If the evidence has been found then it remains a hypothesis. It doesn’t matter whether you like it or not.

You're translating for him now?
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Re: Scientists discover evidence of early human innovation, pushing back evolutionary timeline

Postby Cadmusteeth » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:08 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Cadmusteeth wrote:He’s saying it’s not that simple. If the evidence supports it overwhelmingly from multiple fields then it becomes a theory. If the evidence has been found then it remains a hypothesis. It doesn’t matter whether you like it or not.

You're translating for him now?

Did I overstep my boundaries? :oops: I can back off if you want.
Edit: just now realized I fudged on my post and it came out wrong. My bad.
Last edited by Cadmusteeth on Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Scientists discover evidence of early human innovation, pushing back evolutionary timeline

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:12 pm

No, no, we desperately need someone to translate for him. You appear to speak English, so that a big plus.

:D
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Re: Scientists discover evidence of early human innovation, pushing back evolutionary timeline

Postby landrew » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:28 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
landrew wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
landrew wrote:Basically, it's a theory if you don't like it, and a hypothesis if you do.

Incorrect and probably backwards as well.

Refute with denial. It's just that easy.

Actually, I was being dismissive. You don't qualify for refutations no matter how fluffy they are.

Don't bother coming up with the rationale, just make the statement and leave it there.
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Re: Scientists discover evidence of early human innovation, pushing back evolutionary timeline

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:38 pm

I usually scrape some kitty litter over your posts. I don't know why you're not back on ignore.
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Re: Scientists discover evidence of early human innovation, pushing back evolutionary timeline

Postby Cadmusteeth » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:59 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Cadmusteeth wrote:He’s saying it’s not that simple. If the evidence supports it overwhelmingly from multiple fields then it becomes a theory. If the evidence has been found then it remains a hypothesis. It doesn’t matter whether you like it or not.

You're translating for him now?

I reread my post and I realized I messed up my post. I edited it so it makes more sense.
I was trying to say to landrew why you said what you said. I will admit it wasn’t clear.

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Re: Scientists discover evidence of early human innovation, pushing back evolutionary timeline

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:07 am

Sehr gut!
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Re: Scientists discover evidence of early human innovation, pushing back evolutionary timeline

Postby landrew » Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:44 am

There's no academic freedom where consensus reigns. When everyone has to walk down the narrow corridor of orthodoxy, science stagnates.

Britain sailed ahead of France in the Industrial Revolution. While the British freely encouraged new ideas, the French government stagnated innovation by assuming control over new ideas and in some cases it was a century before some ideas came to fruition.
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Re: Scientists discover evidence of early human innovation, pushing back evolutionary timeline

Postby gorgeous » Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:35 pm

"The falsification of history has done more to impede human
development than any one thing known to mankind"
- Rousseau 1712-1778 -
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Scientists discover evidence of early human innovation, pushing back evolutionary timeline

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:35 pm

Broad generalities are worthless.
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Re: Scientists discover evidence of early human innovation, pushing back evolutionary timeline

Postby Lance Kennedy » Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:17 am

gorgeous wrote:"The falsification of history has done more to impede human
development than any one thing known to mankind"
- Rousseau 1712-1778 -


Seriously unlikely.
The biggest tragedy in human progress was the hiatus between the ancient Greeks and about 500 years ago. A period of 2,000 years in which no significant progress was made.

The cause of that hiatus was not the falsification of history. It was probably a combination of the suppressive nature of the Catholic church, and the wrong idea that logic was the route to truth.

Only after the great scientists of about 500 years ago revealed the scientific method, based on empirical testing rather than logic, did proper progress take off.

It has been suggested that the thing that kicked off the new understanding was the invention of glass lenses, which led to telescopes and microscopes, which permitted real truths to be discovered empirically.

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Re: Scientists discover evidence of early human innovation, pushing back evolutionary timeline

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:55 am

Empirically: that which is still mostly denied by most religions...…….and all followers of Woo!
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Re: Scientists discover evidence of early human innovation, pushing back evolutionary timeline

Postby gorgeous » Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:11 am

rousseau knew....
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Scientists discover evidence of early human innovation, pushing back evolutionary timeline

Postby Lance Kennedy » Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:42 pm

gorgeous wrote:rousseau knew....


And gorgeous the gullible believed him.

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Re: Scientists discover evidence of early human innovation, pushing back evolutionary timeline

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:11 pm

Nothing to argue about when G doesn't even tell us what Rousseau knew.

My favorite: "Freedom is the power to choose our own chains."
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