just how head strong are creationists

Creationism, Intelligent Design, and Evolution.
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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby OlegTheBatty » Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:54 am

Donnageddon wrote:
CMurdock wrote:Thanks to y'all, I've added an addendum to my article about atheists. It's the portion below the ellipsis.

http://calebmurdock.blogspot.com/2012/0 ... elves.html


I am as excited as a kitten not to read it!

But . . . but . . . but . . . how ELSE will you know what you're thinking? :extremeanguish:
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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby Donnageddon » Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:58 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=458037867550101&id=355666447787244&notif_t=feed_comment


I got to watch your banning in real time

Gawdzilla has been banned for being argumentitive. Just because he wants to not believe in an 'entity' is no reason to ignore and argue as if the information that clearly illustrates the point is not there.


:roll:
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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby nmblum88 » Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:05 am

Donnageddon wrote:
CMurdock wrote:Thanks to y'all, I've added an addendum to my article about atheists. It's the portion below the ellipsis.

http://calebmurdock.blogspot.com/2012/0 ... elves.html


I am as excited as a kitten not to read it!

Murdock would like to believe... apparently his "article" will be, by his self-proclaimed standards, proof positive that atheists are not nice guys, flawed characters, stubborn and acerbic who can't quite match up to the polite and amenable folks produced by devotion to his particular god. .
And thus he concludes that atheism is questionable as a point of departure for delving into who we are, where we came from... and of course how.
Unfortunately for poor Murdock, verifiable scientific hypotheses, like artistic talent is not dependent on character, or popularity.
Einstein was a real louse, selfish, mean to his wife, neglectful of his child and finally leaving both of them for another woman... and I can't wait until Murdock (or some equally questionable facsimile) , to present a refutation of the theory of Relativity on the basis of Einstein's personal lacks....
Who ARE these people, these religionists without either knowledge or expository skills who come into skeptical forums as if to lay waste to critical thought?
And why do they persist in jumping into ponds that are too deep, with too many obstacles for their limited endurance ?

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Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby Donnageddon » Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:06 am

I particularly like the "wants not to believe" part.

It is like the ultra-convincing mantra from the X-Files "I want to believe"

Can even the believers not see how silly that sounds?
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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:09 am

nmblum wrote:Who ARE these people, these religionists without either knowledge or expository skills who come into skeptical forums as if to lay waste to critical thought?
And why do they persist in jumping into ponds that are too deep, with too many obstacles for their limited endurance ?

NMB


Good question. Maybe they feel their bubble of bright light around their heads keeps them from drowning?
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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:17 am

Donnageddon wrote:I particularly like the "wants not to believe" part.

It is like the ultra-convincing mantra from the X-Files "I want to believe"

Can even the believers not see how silly that sounds?


I don't think many can...maybe they play this to their followers as a warning:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBIps187MKk :lol:
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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby xouper » Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:02 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
CMurdock wrote:Thanks to y'all, I've added an addendum to my article about atheists. It's the portion below the ellipsis.

http://calebmurdock.blogspot.com/2012/0 ... elves.html


A mature person decides what to believe and then looks for evidence, finding the proof for himself.

Sorry dude, making the evidence fit your beliefs is not what a mature person does...

That merits repeating.

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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby Gord » Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:00 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
CMurdock wrote:Thanks to y'all, I've added an addendum to my article about atheists. It's the portion below the ellipsis.

http://calebmurdock.blogspot.com/2012/0 ... elves.html


A mature person decides what to believe and then looks for evidence, finding the proof for himself.

Wait, is that wingnut still claiming that we can choose what we believe?

Man oh man....
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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby xouper » Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:40 am

CMurdock wrote:Thanks to y'all, I've added an addendum to my article about atheists. It's the portion below the ellipsis.

http://calebmurdock.blogspot.com/2012/0 ... elves.html

In that blog, CMurdock wrote:It also strikes me as immature when atheists go out of their way to dispute other people's beliefs.

So says the person who went out of his way to post a blog article to dispute other people's beliefs.

God bless the hypocrites of the world.

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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby Lausten » Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:02 pm

So, you all didn't like the article then?
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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby Monster » Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:08 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=458037867550101&id=355666447787244&notif_t=feed_comment

There are no comments by you except the question. Did the owner of that "Calling all atheists" account just delete your comments?

EDIT: Nevermind. I see that you were banned.
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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby xouper » Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:35 pm

nmblum wrote:Who ARE these people, these religionists without either knowledge or expository skills who come into skeptical forums as if to lay waste to critical thought? And why do they persist in jumping into ponds that are too deep, with too many obstacles for their limited endurance ?

Why? Perhaps for the same reason 93 percent of US drivers think they are above average drivers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority

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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby nmblum88 » Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:04 pm

xouper wrote:
nmblum wrote:Who ARE these people, these religionists without either knowledge or expository skills who come into skeptical forums as if to lay waste to critical thought? And why do they persist in jumping into ponds that are too deep, with too many obstacles for their limited endurance ?

Why? Perhaps for the same reason 93 percent of US drivers think they are above average drivers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority

Like god and missionaries, such self-assessment is universal....most famously to every motorist in Italy.
And it even applies to camel drivers in the Sahara.

Would that it were that simple... but the human-invented laws and standards of god that allow for all things missionary, supersede the human -invented (traffic) laws and standards of man.
Anyway, my question was rhetorical...
And I was entirely unprepared for such an insightful, not to say high-minded response.

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Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby Monster » Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:36 pm

xouper wrote:
nmblum wrote:Who ARE these people, these religionists without either knowledge or expository skills who come into skeptical forums as if to lay waste to critical thought? And why do they persist in jumping into ponds that are too deep, with too many obstacles for their limited endurance ?

Why? Perhaps for the same reason 93 percent of US drivers think they are above average drivers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority

I would like to point out, that if you aren't from New York City, NJ, or PA, and you're driving in any of those places, then you are indeed better than the average driver.
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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:06 pm

Monster wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=458037867550101&id=355666447787244&notif_t=feed_comment

There are no comments by you except the question. Did the owner of that "Calling all atheists" account just delete your comments?

EDIT: Nevermind. I see that you were banned.

I get banned when I ask, "Why are you atheistic about one fewer gods than I am?" :mrgreen:
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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby CMurdock » Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:51 pm

Someone posted comments on my blog which didn't appear immediately because Blogger categorized them as spam. They have been enabled now. I'm not sure why Blogger did that, and there doesn't seem to be a way to turn off the screening process. I was sleeping when the comments were posted.

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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:29 pm

CMurdock wrote:Someone posted comments on my blog which didn't appear immediately because Blogger categorized them as spam. They have been enabled now. I'm not sure why Blogger did that, and there doesn't seem to be a way to turn off the screening process. I was sleeping when the comments were posted.


Because of your post I revisited your blog. It seems you changed the sentence Anonymous commented on and you responded to without making mention of it. Unless I am mistaken and read the wrong paragraph, I would like to point out that that seems rather sloppy and makes it look like Anonymous messed with your words?

This is what I am referring to:
"The posture of atheists -- "prove it to me" -- is essentially an immature one. A mature person looks for evidence, finding the proof for himself."

Did it not read: "A mature person decides what to believe and then looks for evidence, finding the proof for himself." before?
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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby CMurdock » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:40 pm

Yes, I changed the sentence. I often make changes to the articles in response to criticism. But since the original text is memorialized in the comment, I don't see a problem. All the articles on my site are revised multiple times, and I don't attempt to coordinate the revisions with the comments.

Don't you think you are nit-picking?

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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:45 pm

CMurdock wrote:Yes, I changed the sentence. I often make changes to the articles in response to criticism. But since the original text is memorialized in the post, I don't see a problem. All the articles on my site are revised multiple times, and I don't attempt to coordinate the revisions with the comments.

Don't you think you are nit-picking?


You could call it that. I prefer "paying attention to detail." It comes in handy at times. :)
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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby CMurdock » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:57 pm

There, you see, I did it again. I changed "post" to "comment". I guess I'm incorrigible.

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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:04 pm

CMurdock wrote:There, you see, I did it again. I changed "post" to "comment". I guess I'm incorrigible.


:P
Making changes is allowed, making mention of it is requested and only proper. No?
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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby nmblum88 » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:09 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
CMurdock wrote:Yes, I changed the sentence. I often make changes to the articles in response to criticism. But since the original text is memorialized in the post, I don't see a problem. All the articles on my site are revised multiple times, and I don't attempt to coordinate the revisions with the comments.

Don't you think you are nit-picking?


You could call it that. I prefer "paying attention to detail." It comes in handy at times. :)

Seems to me that CMurdock is not only failing to pay attention to detail, he is actively engaged in obfuscation.. and for nothing more than promoting his own ego.
Poor CMurdock.."for what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?" (Mark 8:36)
Cutting corners for the simple expediency of not wanting to be found incorrect no matter how trivial the cause, is something that seems sadly compatible with religious
missionizing. Not quite a lie- passing- for- a- truth has worked so well for missionaries, that they see no need to cure the habit, or even curtail the tendency.
Nothing new there... Zeus did it.....Osiris was no stranger to lying on behalf of the Egyptian pantheon, and Saul of Tarsus did it after he became St. Paul... (and we have all been suffering for its humorless, leaden hypocrisy ever since..).


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Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:15 pm

nmblum wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:
CMurdock wrote:Yes, I changed the sentence. I often make changes to the articles in response to criticism. But since the original text is memorialized in the post, I don't see a problem. All the articles on my site are revised multiple times, and I don't attempt to coordinate the revisions with the comments.

Don't you think you are nit-picking?


You could call it that. I prefer "paying attention to detail." It comes in handy at times. :)

Seems to me that CMurdock is not only failing to pay attention to detail, he is actively engaged in obfuscation.. and for nothing more than promoting his own ego.
Poor CMurdock.."for what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?" (Mark 8:36)
Cutting corners for the simple expediency of not wanting to be found incorrect no matter how trivial the cause, is something that seems sadly compatible with religious
missionizing. Not quite a lie- passing- for- a- truth has worked so well for missionaries, that they see no need to cure the habit, or even curtail the tendency.
Nothing new there... Zeus did it.....Osiris was no stranger to lying on behalf of the Egyptian pantheon, and Saul of Tarsus did it after he became St. Paul... (and we have all been suffering for its humorless, leaden hypocrisy ever since..).


NMB


Maybe so, but in this case it seems he has strong faith in the intelligence of his readers? Of course, I might be wrong. What do we know of faith, after all...

But as I said before, to me he seems like a decent person, just on a different wave lenght. :)
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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby nmblum88 » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:20 pm

CMurdock wrote:There, you see, I did it again. I changed "post" to "comment". I guess I'm incorrigible.


If being incorrigible gives you a sense of improved self-worth, by all means go for it no matter how foolish it makes you look to others..
Isn't that a form (a lowly form) of Christian martyrdom?
But if you are capable of cognition at all it might occur to you that you are less incorrigible than you are a victim of your own overblown ego which leads you down a pathetic garden path to demean your own religion as incapable of instilling anything resembling sense or sensibility.. nothing more than "garbage in, garbage out."

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Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby CMurdock » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:54 am

Norma, you didn't read much of the thread, did you?

First, I called myself incorrigible as a joke. Second, I am not a Christian (God forbid!). Third, all I really want from the people on this board is a little honesty, and I'm not getting it. I am a religious person, and I fully admit that I need religion in my life (although I hasten to add that that does not invalidate my beliefs). The same thing is true for atheists. There are emotional needs underpinning your atheism, but the people here are too defensive to admit it. Anger, resistance, defensiveness, evasion, sophistry -- those are the things I'm getting from the people here. There is no honesty in any of it. Don't any of you have enough self-awareness to know why you are so contrary? -- because contrariness seems to be at the heart of atheism. I haven't heard an honest answer yet.

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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:55 am

CMurdock wrote:Norma, you didn't read much of the thread, did you?

First, I called myself incorrigible as a joke. Second, I am not a Christian (God forbid!). Third, all I really want from the people on this board is a little honesty, and I'm not getting it. I am a religious person, and I fully admit that I need religion in my life (although I hasten to add that that does not invalidate my beliefs). The same thing is true for atheists. There are emotional needs underpinning your atheism, but the people here are too defensive to admit it. Anger, resistance, defensiveness, evasion, sophistry -- those are the things I'm getting from the people here. There is no honesty in any of it. Don't any of you have enough self-awareness to know why you are so contrary? -- because contrariness seems to be at the heart of atheism. I haven't heard an honest answer yet.


No honesty? Are you sure about that?
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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:20 am

Quite honestly, I'm sick of people coming here with hidden agendas.
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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:27 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Quite honestly, I'm sick of people coming here with hidden agendas.


I like your honesty. :P
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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby Lausten » Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:52 am

I haven't heard an honest answer yet.

What was the question?
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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby nmblum88 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:03 am

CMurdock wrote:Norma, you didn't read much of the thread, did you?

First, I called myself incorrigible as a joke. Second, I am not a Christian (God forbid!). Third, all I really want from the people on this board is a little honesty, and I'm not getting it. I am a religious person, and I fully admit that I need religion in my life (although I hasten to add that that does not invalidate my beliefs). The same thing is true for atheists. There are emotional needs underpinning your atheism, but the people here are too defensive to admit it. Anger, resistance, defensiveness, evasion, sophistry -- those are the things I'm getting from the people here. There is no honesty in any of it. Don't any of you have enough self-awareness to know why you are so contrary? -- because contrariness seems to be at the heart of atheism. I haven't heard an honest answer yet.

How would you recognize honesty through you own haze of dissimulation?
And what right do you have to demand anything from anybody about anything?
People are here to speak their minds in a forum devoted to skepticism, some respondents are atheists others are not...but NONE has any reason to be defensive because THEY have NOT pursued you in whatever lair you are usually to be found.
You came here, with what are clearly less than noble intentions: you were and still are looking for an argument which plays itself out allowing YOU to look both intelligent and and acting only in the interest of intellectual curiosity.
That is never going to happen because your posturing and invention merely leave you looking foolish.
And petulant.
And dishonest...
Clean up your act and try again.


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Skepticism:
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Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:20 am

Now I might be totally off track here but I feel something just clicked. This is from post # 73:
CMurdock wrote:Angawawa, I'm not sure if you were agreeing or disagreeing with my comments, but I love what you just said.
....
Incidentally, since you are a woman, let me convey one thing about the Seth material. Jane Roberts was from a Catholic family, and she had a manipulative mother, and she clearly had a lot of emotional problems. Seth said shortly before Roberts died that he presented himself to her as a man because Roberts had her own prejudices against women, and she wouldn't have accepted Seth if he had presented himself as a woman. Almost all religions are male-dominated, and I just want you to understand why Seth was also a male.


CMurdock wrote:Norma, you didn't read much of the thread, did you?


I can't quite name it, but there seems to be something odd about the way CMurdock is addressing women (including using the name they give, he doesn't seem to address others by their handle)?

Is he pleading, or is he condescending... or am I getting paranoid?
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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby CMurdock » Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:39 am

You're grasping at straws.
Last edited by CMurdock on Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:32 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:51 am

CMurdock wrote:Your grasping at straws.


And you have an explanation why that would be the case?
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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby CMurdock » Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:56 am

I'm retiring from the thread. It's going no where. I've turned off notifications.

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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:02 am

:senile:
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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:03 am

I will be in deep mourning for the next eleven nanoseconds.
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scrmbldggs
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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:10 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:I will be in deep mourning for the next eleven nanoseconds.


:rotfl:
Hi, Io the lurker.

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OlegTheBatty
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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby OlegTheBatty » Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:14 am

Now that he has buggered off (though I didn't hear the door slam), I wonder what sort of emotional needs are best filled by nothing at all. I mean, if no-god is sufficient, then why have the needs in the first place. Is he saying that atheism is a self-unfulfilling prophecy? :?
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

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OlegTheBatty
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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby OlegTheBatty » Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:15 am

CMurdock wrote:Your grasping at straws.

That should be 'you're'. One edit short.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

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scrmbldggs
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Re: just how head strong are creationists

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:21 am

OlegTheBatty wrote:
CMurdock wrote:Your grasping at straws.

That should be 'you're'. One edit short.


Now you are just nit picking! :lol:
Hi, Io the lurker.


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