Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Creationism, Intelligent Design, and Evolution.
User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 21823
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:05 pm

Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

A detailed analysis of 3.465-billion-year-old microbial microfossils provides evidence to support an increasingly widespread understanding that life in the Universe is common.

Professor J. William Schopf from the University of California, Los Angeles, and his colleagues analyzed 11 specimens of 5 species of prokaryotic cellular microfossils from the Apex Basalt Formation, Pilbara Craton, Western Australia.

Two of the five species the researchers studied were primitive photosynthesizers, one was an Archaeal methane producer, and two others were methane consumers.

“The evidence that a diverse group of organisms had already evolved extremely early in the Earth’s history strengthens the case for life existing elsewhere in the Universe because it would be extremely unlikely that life formed quickly on Earth but did not arise anywhere else,” they said.

The study, published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, is the most detailed ever conducted on microorganisms preserved in such ancient fossils.


Continues...
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
landrew
Has More Than 7K Posts
Posts: 7936
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:51 am

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby landrew » Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:03 am

It just seems to me like 3.5 billion years isn't enough time for life to develop. Microbial life had almost 13 billion years to evolve elsewhere, and be transported to this planet via panspermia.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 21823
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:48 am

landrew wrote:It just seems to me like 3.5 billion years isn't enough time for life to develop. Microbial life had almost 13 billion years to evolve elsewhere, and be transported to this planet via panspermia.

Why does abiogenesis have to take a long time?
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
landrew
Has More Than 7K Posts
Posts: 7936
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:51 am

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby landrew » Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:18 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
landrew wrote:It just seems to me like 3.5 billion years isn't enough time for life to develop. Microbial life had almost 13 billion years to evolve elsewhere, and be transported to this planet via panspermia.

Why does abiogenesis have to take a long time?

When you look abstractly at the complexity of life, the majority of it is within the living cell.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 21823
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:33 pm

landrew wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
landrew wrote:It just seems to me like 3.5 billion years isn't enough time for life to develop. Microbial life had almost 13 billion years to evolve elsewhere, and be transported to this planet via panspermia.

Why does abiogenesis have to take a long time?

When you look abstractly at the complexity of life, the majority of it is within the living cell.

Wind your way toward a point, por favor.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
landrew
Has More Than 7K Posts
Posts: 7936
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:51 am

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby landrew » Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:38 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
landrew wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
landrew wrote:It just seems to me like 3.5 billion years isn't enough time for life to develop. Microbial life had almost 13 billion years to evolve elsewhere, and be transported to this planet via panspermia.

Why does abiogenesis have to take a long time?

When you look abstractly at the complexity of life, the majority of it is within the living cell.

Wind your way toward a point, por favor.

Nearly every organism is an amalgam of living cells, which are fundamentally very similar, and astoundingly complex. It seems to me that the complexity of the cell would require much more time to evolve (particularly asexually) than was available on this planet within the nearly 4 billion years allotted.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

User avatar
OlegTheBatty
Has No Life
Posts: 11160
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:35 pm
Custom Title: Uppity Atheist

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby OlegTheBatty » Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:04 pm

landrew wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
landrew wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
landrew wrote:It just seems to me like 3.5 billion years isn't enough time for life to develop. Microbial life had almost 13 billion years to evolve elsewhere, and be transported to this planet via panspermia.

Why does abiogenesis have to take a long time?

When you look abstractly at the complexity of life, the majority of it is within the living cell.

Wind your way toward a point, por favor.

Nearly every organism is an amalgam of living cells, which are fundamentally very similar, and astoundingly complex. It seems to me that the complexity of the cell would require much more time to evolve (particularly asexually) than was available on this planet within the nearly 4 billion years allotted.


Perhpas you are underestimating the speed in which bacteria can evolve.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 21823
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:18 pm

landrew wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
landrew wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
landrew wrote:It just seems to me like 3.5 billion years isn't enough time for life to develop. Microbial life had almost 13 billion years to evolve elsewhere, and be transported to this planet via panspermia.

Why does abiogenesis have to take a long time?

When you look abstractly at the complexity of life, the majority of it is within the living cell.

Wind your way toward a point, por favor.

Nearly every organism is an amalgam of living cells, which are fundamentally very similar, and astoundingly complex. It seems to me that the complexity of the cell would require much more time to evolve (particularly asexually) than was available on this planet within the nearly 4 billion years allotted.

Why do you believe this?
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
landrew
Has More Than 7K Posts
Posts: 7936
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:51 am

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby landrew » Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:20 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
landrew wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
landrew wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
landrew wrote:It just seems to me like 3.5 billion years isn't enough time for life to develop. Microbial life had almost 13 billion years to evolve elsewhere, and be transported to this planet via panspermia.

Why does abiogenesis have to take a long time?

When you look abstractly at the complexity of life, the majority of it is within the living cell.

Wind your way toward a point, por favor.

Nearly every organism is an amalgam of living cells, which are fundamentally very similar, and astoundingly complex. It seems to me that the complexity of the cell would require much more time to evolve (particularly asexually) than was available on this planet within the nearly 4 billion years allotted.

Why do you believe this?

Intuitively, yes, I believe that it probably took more than 4 billion years for the complexity of the cells to develop.
So shoot me.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

User avatar
landrew
Has More Than 7K Posts
Posts: 7936
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:51 am

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby landrew » Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:25 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:
landrew wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
landrew wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
landrew wrote:It just seems to me like 3.5 billion years isn't enough time for life to develop. Microbial life had almost 13 billion years to evolve elsewhere, and be transported to this planet via panspermia.

Why does abiogenesis have to take a long time?

When you look abstractly at the complexity of life, the majority of it is within the living cell.

Wind your way toward a point, por favor.

Nearly every organism is an amalgam of living cells, which are fundamentally very similar, and astoundingly complex. It seems to me that the complexity of the cell would require much more time to evolve (particularly asexually) than was available on this planet within the nearly 4 billion years allotted.


Perhpas you are underestimating the speed in which bacteria can evolve.

Bacteria evolving is not the same as the evolution of bacteria. Sexual reproduction and transduction have vastly speeded up the evolution of microbes by combining genetic material. It's fair to assume that sexual reproduction did not occur early on, and many forms today reproduce asexually, which is a vastly slower process of evolution.
It's not a question of evidence with me, it's an intuitive belief that it took much longer than the age of the earth.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 21823
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:32 pm

landrew wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
landrew wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
landrew wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
landrew wrote:It just seems to me like 3.5 billion years isn't enough time for life to develop. Microbial life had almost 13 billion years to evolve elsewhere, and be transported to this planet via panspermia.

Why does abiogenesis have to take a long time?

When you look abstractly at the complexity of life, the majority of it is within the living cell.

Wind your way toward a point, por favor.

Nearly every organism is an amalgam of living cells, which are fundamentally very similar, and astoundingly complex. It seems to me that the complexity of the cell would require much more time to evolve (particularly asexually) than was available on this planet within the nearly 4 billion years allotted.

Why do you believe this?

Intuitively, yes, I believe that it probably took more than 4 billion years for the complexity of the cells to develop.
So shoot me.

An informed opinion would be much better.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
OlegTheBatty
Has No Life
Posts: 11160
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:35 pm
Custom Title: Uppity Atheist

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby OlegTheBatty » Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:33 pm

Unicellular critters don't reproduce sexually. The point is that there are several other mechanisms for sharing genetic material in unicellular beasties. Sexual reproduction speeded up the diversification of multicellular organisms.

landrew wrote:It's not a question of evidence with me, it's an intuitive belief that it took much longer than the age of the earth.


like a religious belief.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

User avatar
landrew
Has More Than 7K Posts
Posts: 7936
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:51 am

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby landrew » Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:34 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
landrew wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
landrew wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
landrew wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
landrew wrote:It just seems to me like 3.5 billion years isn't enough time for life to develop. Microbial life had almost 13 billion years to evolve elsewhere, and be transported to this planet via panspermia.

Why does abiogenesis have to take a long time?

When you look abstractly at the complexity of life, the majority of it is within the living cell.

Wind your way toward a point, por favor.

Nearly every organism is an amalgam of living cells, which are fundamentally very similar, and astoundingly complex. It seems to me that the complexity of the cell would require much more time to evolve (particularly asexually) than was available on this planet within the nearly 4 billion years allotted.

Why do you believe this?

Intuitively, yes, I believe that it probably took more than 4 billion years for the complexity of the cells to develop.
So shoot me.

An informed opinion would be much better.

It is my informed opinion. I have studied genetics at the graduate level.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

User avatar
landrew
Has More Than 7K Posts
Posts: 7936
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:51 am

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby landrew » Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:35 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:Unicellular critters don't reproduce sexually. The point is that there are several other mechanisms for sharing genetic material in unicellular beasties. Sexual reproduction speeded up the diversification of multicellular organisms.

landrew wrote:It's not a question of evidence with me, it's an intuitive belief that it took much longer than the age of the earth.


like a religious belief.

Not really. Intuition is often confused with delusion, because they appear to be quite similar sometimes.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 21823
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:35 pm

And you think life has formed on this planet?
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
landrew
Has More Than 7K Posts
Posts: 7936
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:51 am

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby landrew » Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:42 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:And you think life has formed on this planet?

The more we learn about life, the more we know that extremophiles can live in the harshest environments imaginable. We also find evidence of organisms in some of the oldest rocks and at impossible depths within the earth. We know that spores and genetic material can escape the atmosphere and possibly travel through space.
It's just thinking ahead a tiny bit. Not rocket science.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

User avatar
landrew
Has More Than 7K Posts
Posts: 7936
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:51 am

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby landrew » Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:59 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:And you think life has formed on this planet?

I can't imagine higher life forms migrating from one planet to another sans advanced intelligent life.
However, cellular-level life is another matter. I think the concept of panspermia has enough merit to consider.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 21823
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:28 pm

landrew wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:And you think life has formed on this planet?

The more we learn about life, the more we know that extremophiles can live in the harshest environments imaginable. We also find evidence of organisms in some of the oldest rocks and at impossible depths within the earth. We know that spores and genetic material can escape the atmosphere and possibly travel through space.
It's just thinking ahead a tiny bit. Not rocket science.

Try to be coherent.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 21823
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:29 pm

landrew wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:And you think life has formed on this planet?

I can't imagine higher life forms migrating from one planet to another sans advanced intelligent life.
However, cellular-level life is another matter. I think the concept of panspermia has enough merit to consider.

And the origin? Where did that life come from?
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 21823
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:35 pm

Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
landrew
Has More Than 7K Posts
Posts: 7936
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:51 am

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby landrew » Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:35 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
landrew wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:And you think life has formed on this planet?

I can't imagine higher life forms migrating from one planet to another sans advanced intelligent life.
However, cellular-level life is another matter. I think the concept of panspermia has enough merit to consider.

And the origin? Where did that life come from?

Darwin's warm little pond didn't have to be here, did it?
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

User avatar
landrew
Has More Than 7K Posts
Posts: 7936
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:51 am

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby landrew » Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:37 pm

landrew wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
landrew wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:And you think life has formed on this planet?

I can't imagine higher life forms migrating from one planet to another sans advanced intelligent life.
However, cellular-level life is another matter. I think the concept of panspermia has enough merit to consider.

And the origin? Where did that life come from?

Darwin's warm little pond didn't have to be here, did it?


Oh don't say it; "we have no evidence..." We have evidence of trillions of suns, each with the likelihood of many planets. It's just a question of odds.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 21823
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:14 pm

landrew wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
landrew wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:And you think life has formed on this planet?

I can't imagine higher life forms migrating from one planet to another sans advanced intelligent life.
However, cellular-level life is another matter. I think the concept of panspermia has enough merit to consider.

And the origin? Where did that life come from?

Darwin's warm little pond didn't have to be here, did it?

Why couldn't it be here?
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 21823
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:15 pm

landrew wrote:
landrew wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
landrew wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:And you think life has formed on this planet?

I can't imagine higher life forms migrating from one planet to another sans advanced intelligent life.
However, cellular-level life is another matter. I think the concept of panspermia has enough merit to consider.

And the origin? Where did that life come from?

Darwin's warm little pond didn't have to be here, did it?


Oh don't say it; "we have no evidence..." We have evidence of trillions of suns, each with the likelihood of many planets. It's just a question of odds.

Imagine how long it would take a rock to get here from Andromeda.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
landrew
Has More Than 7K Posts
Posts: 7936
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:51 am

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby landrew » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:20 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
landrew wrote:
landrew wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
landrew wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:And you think life has formed on this planet?

I can't imagine higher life forms migrating from one planet to another sans advanced intelligent life.
However, cellular-level life is another matter. I think the concept of panspermia has enough merit to consider.

And the origin? Where did that life come from?

Darwin's warm little pond didn't have to be here, did it?


Oh don't say it; "we have no evidence..." We have evidence of trillions of suns, each with the likelihood of many planets. It's just a question of odds.

Imagine how long it would take a rock to get here from Andromeda.

Imagine 14.2 billion years.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 21823
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:22 pm

And that rock hitting this particular planet from wherever it originated.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
landrew
Has More Than 7K Posts
Posts: 7936
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:51 am

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby landrew » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:33 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:And that rock hitting this particular planet from wherever it originated.

Work on the "imagination" part.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 21823
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:33 pm

landrew wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:And that rock hitting this particular planet from wherever it originated.

Work on the "imagination" part.

Work on the reality part.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
landrew
Has More Than 7K Posts
Posts: 7936
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:51 am

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby landrew » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:35 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
landrew wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:And that rock hitting this particular planet from wherever it originated.

Work on the "imagination" part.

Work on the reality part.

Oh, I forgot. If you can't see it, it doesn't exist.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 21823
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:56 pm

landrew wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
landrew wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:And that rock hitting this particular planet from wherever it originated.

Work on the "imagination" part.

Work on the reality part.

Oh, I forgot. If you can't see it, it doesn't exist.

If you can't see it, you make it up. FOAD.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has No Life
Posts: 11555
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby Lance Kennedy » Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:44 am

Panspermia requires a lot of religious type faith. If a rock containing living bacteria set off from the nearest other star system, which is 4.3 light years away, it would take probably tens of thousands of years to get here*. The bacterium has to survive that long at close to absolute zero in vacuum with no food, oxygen etc. Not terribly likely.

Far more likely that abiogenesis happened right here on Earth.

Another point. The fact that extremophiles exist and can survive in extreme conditions here on Earth does NOT mean they evolved under those extreme conditions elsewhere. To become an extremophile here took 4 billion years of evolution to adapt to those conditions. What are the odds against an organism appearing via abiogenesis under such hostile conditions ?

*The only known visitor from outside our solar system, the asteroid Oumuamua, travels at 140,000 km per hour, and would take 33,000 years to travel 4.3 light years.

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 21823
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:56 am

For panspermia to have a shot there had to be an original source. From there to here is wildly improbable, even if it is inside the Milky Way.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
OlegTheBatty
Has No Life
Posts: 11160
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:35 pm
Custom Title: Uppity Atheist

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby OlegTheBatty » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:00 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:Panspermia requires a lot of religious type faith. If a rock containing living bacteria set off from the nearest other star system, which is 4.3 light years away, it would take probably tens of thousands of years to get here*. The bacterium has to survive that long at close to absolute zero in vacuum with no food, oxygen etc. Not terribly likely.

Far more likely that abiogenesis happened right here on Earth.

Another point. The fact that extremophiles exist and can survive in extreme conditions here on Earth does NOT mean they evolved under those extreme conditions elsewhere. To become an extremophile here took 4 billion years of evolution to adapt to those conditions. What are the odds against an organism appearing via abiogenesis under such hostile conditions ?


The evidence in the study in the OP is that extremophiles were there pretty much from the start. Conditions seem extreme to us, but to critters living there, we are the extremophiles.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has No Life
Posts: 11555
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby Lance Kennedy » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:54 pm

Not so, Oleg.
The first living things no doubt survived in a set of conditions we deem extreme by our standards. Possibly hot geothermal water ? Though no one knows exactly.

But extremophiles today survive in such a range of conditions, from polar ice, to strong acid to strong alkali, to deserts, to deep ocean pressures, to kilometers under rock etc. It required 4 billion years of evolution.

Sure, ONE set of extreme conditions might be OK for abiogenesis away from Earth. But which one? Whatever, it is unlikely to be common.

User avatar
landrew
Has More Than 7K Posts
Posts: 7936
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:51 am

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby landrew » Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:02 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:Not so, Oleg.
The first living things no doubt survived in a set of conditions we deem extreme by our standards. Possibly hot geothermal water ? Though no one knows exactly.

But extremophiles today survive in such a range of conditions, from polar ice, to strong acid to strong alkali, to deserts, to deep ocean pressures, to kilometers under rock etc. It required 4 billion years of evolution.

Sure, ONE set of extreme conditions might be OK for abiogenesis away from Earth. But which one? Whatever, it is unlikely to be common.

I'm loath to explain the existence of bacteria, Deinococcus radiodurans living inside a nuclear reactor: https://science.slashdot.org/story/04/0 ... lear-waste

The adaptation, as I understand it, involves 4 copies of each gene, rapidly replicating a good copy from the other 3 as each one is destroyed by radiation. Such resilience to radiation is remarkable, and it's appearance is hard to explain in the normal environments of earth. My theory is that it may have evolved elsewhere in the universe, in a high-radiation environment, and made it's way to earth via panspermia.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has No Life
Posts: 11555
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby Lance Kennedy » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:55 am

Landrew

Deinococcus is extremely resistant to radiation. But it is not alone. Such resistance follows a continuum from human vulnerability through many species up to Deinococcus. Lots of organisms are very much more resistant than humans.

There are many opportunities for such resistance to evolve here in Earth. Some environments are substantially radioactive. For example, the town of Ramsa in Iran has geothermal waters rich in radon and radium, and significantly radioactive. Also warm. The local people bathe in them !

Some uranium mines are so radioactive that the mining is done by remote control robots.

User avatar
landrew
Has More Than 7K Posts
Posts: 7936
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:51 am

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby landrew » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:00 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:Landrew

Deinococcus is extremely resistant to radiation. But it is not alone. Such resistance follows a continuum from human vulnerability through many species up to Deinococcus. Lots of organisms are very much more resistant than humans.

There are many opportunities for such resistance to evolve here in Earth. Some environments are substantially radioactive. For example, the town of Ramsa in Iran has geothermal waters rich in radon and radium, and significantly radioactive. Also warm. The local people bathe in them !

Some uranium mines are so radioactive that the mining is done by remote control robots.

It's just a theory of mine. Not enough data exists to refute either way.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has No Life
Posts: 11555
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby Lance Kennedy » Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:36 am

Not such a great theory, landrew.

Simple statistics makes it unlikely.
The average distance between stars in our galaxy is 4 light years. This is a massive separation. A rock leaving a star system, for whatever reason, will almost never reach any other star system. It will drift right past all of them, since they are so far apart. It would be like firing a gun aimed at random, ten kilometers away from a sparrow, and hoping to hit that sparrow.

Not only that, but the rock would take tens of thousands of years to make the passage, in the vacuum of space, at almost absolute zero, exposed to immensely damaging cosmic radiation, with no nutrients to live on, and expecting the life on board to survive and be able to adapt and reproduce when it reaches another star system.

User avatar
landrew
Has More Than 7K Posts
Posts: 7936
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:51 am

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby landrew » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:59 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:Not such a great theory, landrew.

Simple statistics makes it unlikely.
The average distance between stars in our galaxy is 4 light years. This is a massive separation. A rock leaving a star system, for whatever reason, will almost never reach any other star system. It will drift right past all of them, since they are so far apart. It would be like firing a gun aimed at random, ten kilometers away from a sparrow, and hoping to hit that sparrow.

Not only that, but the rock would take tens of thousands of years to make the passage, in the vacuum of space, at almost absolute zero, exposed to immensely damaging cosmic radiation, with no nutrients to live on, and expecting the life on board to survive and be able to adapt and reproduce when it reaches another star system.

There's plenty of evidence that our solar system is composed of rock and dust from long-dead stars. Several generations of stars and planets have come and gone since the big bang.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has No Life
Posts: 11555
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: Study: Simple Life Forms are Common throughout Universe

Postby Lance Kennedy » Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:08 am

Long dead indeed. Billions of years. The oldest stars in our galaxy are more than 8 billion years old, and they are younger than the long dead stars you refer to. Any suggestion that life came from those long dead stars is beyond absurd.


Return to “Origins”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests