1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000

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Postby Paulhoff » Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:58 pm

debngeof wrote:The first thing that ever went wrong was because of Adam's disobedience. God is not threatening us. He's giving us a way out of the destination that we've paved for ourselves by choosing to be disobedient.

So this so-called god has a problem with this so-called Adam' disobedience and we now have to make up for that......

Didn't this so-called all knowing god see this coming with Adam and still he still lets it happen, he is not a very good planer......

I would still like to know where Adam's son got his wife.........

Paul

:D :D :D

For an old book you would think by now that they would get all the bugs out of it...........

But people just go on their merry way and except BS..........
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Re: 1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000

Postby Harry_rr » Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:45 pm

On the other hand, if we make 8 predictions, then later invent a story which shows those predictions came true, we would have the same outcome. The fact that you can interpret the Bible (mind you, ignoring much BS) to have fulfilled prophecies, does not make it factual for everyone. First prove the Bible writers could not have invented the stories, could not have lied about what they claimed, and could not have been delusional about what they wrote.

The prophecies in the Bible (and Koran alike) are all vague and can be read to mean many different things. They only predict what one wishes them to predict.

Once you free yourself from passive thinking, read the works of Thomas Paine, where he specifically addresses the so-called "fulfilled" prophecies in the New Testaments with respect to the Old Testament. Then read the objections to Thomas Paine's writings. But, I must warn you, if you are programmed to ignore the obvious, you will not see the absurdities in those objections.

Using prophecy to show the Bible tells the truth is a big failure, unless people are programmed to automatically believe the BS. Critical minds will always see the absurdities in cryptic and vague predictions meaning anything specific.

Seems like the truth should be self evident, so why try so hard to prove such?

Try again.
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Re:

Postby Harry_rr » Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:10 pm

Anchor of Life wrote:
Jim Dominic wrote:Fulfilling prophecies is nice work if you can get it.

Let's say someone writes a few dramatic prophecies. All someone else has to do, later, is to do all the things written in the prophecies...or someone else can claim that you did.

That's why the JREF Million-Dollar Challenge requires demonstrations in real time. Glorious stories of miraculous events are only glorious stories of miraculous events, and we can see those every day on TV and in the movies.


Most of Jesus' disciples abandoned Him at the end. They were afraid that the Roman Empire would hunt down any followers of Jesus and deal with them in a like manner. Why would they risk their lives spreading a lie. The answer is The Resurrection. After seeing Him alive again, they were transformed from scared, hiding men into bold proclaimers of His resurrection, willing to die for their conviction. As Gary Habermas, apologist and philosopher, has said, "...liars do not make martyrs."
There is NO objective reason to doubt Jesus' life, death, and resurrection some 2,000 years ago.


If one thing does not work, then lets just change the subject. Let us try "martyrdom". They would not die for a lie? First, If someone was inventing stories, they could easily have invented a story based on "they would not die for a lie". First show these stories were not invented., then you might have a better foot to stand on. Unfortunately, that too would fail, as we know many have died for a lie. Marshall Applewhite, Jim Jones, and David Koresh are just a few that died for what they believed was the truth, even though they themselves made up those false "truths". In essence, if someone becomes delusional enough to believe a falsehood as the truth, they will go to their graves believing that falsehood to be true. We are not talking about a short period of time where there was insufficient time to become delusional. These people were immerse in their beliefs and programmed, just as surely as you are, to ignore reality in the name of faith. So, show how these martyrs you talk about could not have been delusional. Was there some magic pill in those days that prevented delusional minds?

Then, give specifics and absolute indisputable proof of these martyrs and how they died. If you ever did look into the mater, instead of just believing what others say about it, you will find that, at best, there are only two Biblical references that could qualify as "martyrdom" in the sense that you want to use it.

So, "martyrdom" is another failure in proving the Bible is the "Word of God".
Try Again.

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Re:

Postby Blacksamwell » Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:42 pm

debngeof wrote:There seems to be this idea that being Christian means being better than average. Why is that?


Maybe because we see that you're commanded to be perfect in Matthew 5, verse 48?

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Does the bible command you to be imperfect elsewhere?

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Re:

Postby Harry_rr » Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:55 pm

debngeof wrote:
Jim Dominic wrote:Fulfilling prophecies is nice work if you can get it.

Let's say someone writes a few dramatic prophecies. All someone else has to do, later, is to do all the things written in the prophecies...or someone else can claim that you did.

That's why the JREF Million-Dollar Challenge requires demonstrations in real time. Glorious stories of miraculous events are only glorious stories of miraculous events, and we can see those every day on TV and in the movies.


I see. It's so clear. Just one question.

Did you pick out your own parents or where you were going to be born?

How about this one ... If you were accused of a capital crime by a court that was doing almost everything wrong or illegally would you object?

Or my favorite ( probably Anchors too ) Would you voluntarily let someone take you to court knowing that it would end with you being nailed to a cross?


You sound like your whole world just collapsed and you need to grab onto something to keep from falling, but what you grab onto is the world that is collapsing all around you. This thread was used to claim "fulfilled" prophecies in the Bible prove the Bible's accuracy. If the argument is baseless, as Jim pointed out, then all other claims become baseless for which the argument was used for credence. It is absurd to ask these questions without first proving the Bible is accurate. This thread tried to do that, but failed miserably, as your post shows. Your post actually shows the failure in what this thread tried to accomplish. If all else fails, just change the subject. That is a common ploy Theists use.

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Re: 1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000

Postby Anchor of Life » Sun Jul 25, 2010 5:05 pm

According to Dr. Norman Geisler, one of the strongest evidences that the Bible is inspired by God is its predictive prophecy. Unlike any other book, the Bible offers a multitude of specific predictions – some hundreds of years in advance – that have been literally fulfilled or else point to a definite future time when they will come true.

There are two broad categories of biblical prophecy: messianic & nonmessianic.

ONLY Jesus Christ of Nazareth can be the only possible candidate to hit the bulls-eye of prophecy.

It is noteworthy that in no other religious writings in the world do we find any specific predictive prophecies like we find in the Scripture. You will find no predictive prophecies whatsoever in the writings of Buddha, Confucius, Mohamed, Lao-Tse, or Hinduism. Of all the attacks that have ever been made upon the Scripture, there has never been one book written by a skeptic to disprove the prophecies of the Scripture. Though the Bible has been attacked at every other place, the one place where God rests His inspiration is that the things He foretells come infallibly to pass.” (D. James Kennedy)
"This hope is a strong and trustworthy anchor for our souls." (Hebrews 6:19)

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Re: 1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000

Postby Blacksamwell » Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:19 pm

Anchor of Life wrote:According to Dr. Norman Geisler, one of the strongest evidences that the Bible is inspired by God is its predictive prophecy.


Did Dr. Norman Geisler also address the many clear absurdities in the bible? Is that also evidence the bible is inspired?

My favorite absurd passages are the ones where the bible talks about unicorns as though they were merely just another pair of animals on the ark. The cockatrice references are a close second.

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Re: 1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000

Postby rrichar911 » Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:53 am

Everything that man puts his faith in other than God will fail. We are watching that happen. The margin for man's error is becoming smaller and smaller.

Not much prophesy has been fulfilled in the last 2000 years, but it is sure picking up the pace now.
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Re: 1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000

Postby rrichar911 » Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:55 am

Blacksamwell wrote:
Anchor of Life wrote:According to Dr. Norman Geisler, one of the strongest evidences that the Bible is inspired by God is its predictive prophecy.


Did Dr. Norman Geisler also address the many clear absurdities in the bible? Is that also evidence the bible is inspired?

My favorite absurd passages are the ones where the bible talks about unicorns as though they were merely just another pair of animals on the ark. The cockatrice references are a close second.


Unicorns were not in the Arc.
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Re: 1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:09 am

Anchor of Life wrote:According to Dr. Norman Geisler, one of the strongest evidences that the Bible is inspired by God is its predictive prophecy. Unlike any other book, the Bible offers a multitude of specific predictions – some hundreds of years in advance – that have been literally fulfilled or else point to a definite future time when they will come true.


Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel
So who is this Jesus fellow you all keep talking about?

Amos 9:15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.
They were removed from the land until the pagan UN put them back there in 1948. God must use the pagan UN to do his work.

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
That generation dies out 2000 years ago and there is still no second coming.

Isaiah 17:1 The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap
Damascus has some of the best French restaurants on the planet. It's still here.

If Dr Norman Gleiser is right, the errors in the bible are so awful that it cannot be a religious book and therefore Anchor of Life needs to find a new religion. However Anchor of Life may be a christian hypocrite and not follow his own guidance that he instructs non-believers to follow.

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Re: 1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000

Postby Blacksamwell » Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:16 pm

rrichar911 wrote:
Blacksamwell wrote:
Anchor of Life wrote:According to Dr. Norman Geisler, one of the strongest evidences that the Bible is inspired by God is its predictive prophecy.


Did Dr. Norman Geisler also address the many clear absurdities in the bible? Is that also evidence the bible is inspired?

My favorite absurd passages are the ones where the bible talks about unicorns as though they were merely just another pair of animals on the ark. The cockatrice references are a close second.


Unicorns were not in the Arc.


Thank you, my point exactly.

And yet God doesn't seem to notice they don't exist as he makes reference to them repeatedly through the supposedly inspired text of the bible.

The bible isn't even self consistent, much less consistent when compared with reality.

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Re: 1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000

Postby Paulhoff » Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:01 pm

rrichar911 wrote:Everything that man puts his faith in other than God will fail.

Oh, and which of the thousand of things is it now. Can you point to any time that there hasn't been something going on. Remember the 50 plus million dead in WWII.

Paul

:D :D :D
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Re: 1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:52 pm

rrichar911 wrote:Everything that man puts his faith in other than God will fail.


Peter the Hermit put his faith in God on the first crusade. 25% died on the way and the remainder were killed or sold into slavery when they arrived. I think it is better to simply follow "logical plans".

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Re: 1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000

Postby numan » Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:52 pm

'
Matthew Ellard wrote:Peter the Hermit put his faith in God on the first crusade. 25% died on the way and the remainder were killed or sold into slavery when they arrived.

OUCH! What a floater!

I think it says something about the educational attainments of people on this forum that I am the first person to point out the gross inaccuracy of that statement!

But age does tend to bring confusion. Perhaps you were thinking of the Children's Crusade?

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Re: 1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:35 am

numan wrote:'
Matthew Ellard wrote:Peter the Hermit put his faith in God on the first crusade. 25% died on the way and the remainder were killed or sold into slavery when they arrived.

OUCH! What a floater!

I think it says something about the educational attainments of people on this forum that I am the first person to point out the gross inaccuracy of that statement!

But age does tend to bring confusion. Perhaps you were thinking of the Children's Crusade? .


Peter the Hermit (died July 8, 1115 in Neufmoutier by Huy) was a priest of Amiens and a key figure during the First Crusade.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_the_Hermit

Numan, you are a complete idiot. You are so stupid it is almost magical. Try checking information before attempting to correct your intellectual superiors.

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Re: 1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000

Postby rrichar911 » Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:14 am

Anchor of Life

You get an A for effort.

But there are odds even worse than that. Infinity to one that the universe would be hospitable to life, by chance.

Odds don't mean anything if your mind is already made up.
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Re: 1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000

Postby Paulhoff » Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:02 pm

rrichar911 wrote:But there are odds even worse than that. Infinity to one that the universe would be hospitable to life, by chance.

The universe is anything but hospitable to life, there is a lot of space out there.

Paul

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Re: 1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000

Postby numan » Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:44 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
numan wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:Peter the Hermit put his faith in God on the first crusade. 25% died on the way and the remainder were killed or sold into slavery when they arrived.

OUCH! What a floater!

I think it says something about the educational attainments of people on this forum that I am the first person to point out the gross inaccuracy of that statement!

Numan, you are a complete idiot. You are so stupid it is almost magical. Try checking information before attempting to correct your intellectual superiors.

Sorry to intrude upon your gloating, but...

The First Crusade was completely successful---though perhaps not from the point of view of the people who lived in Palestine. The crusaders captured Jerusalem in 1099, and they slaughtered the inhabitants indiscriminately, so that, according to the story, the blood flowed in the streets up to the knees of the crusaders' horses.

I hesitate to say that you are so stupid it is almost magical, but perhaps you should take your own advice about checking information.

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Re: 1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000

Postby fromthehills » Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:15 am

Try to keep up, Numan. The hard won success of capturing Jerusalem wasn't due to the efforts of Peter the Hermit. His followers were either captured by Slavs, enslaved by Romans, deserted, or killed by Turks. You are an academic? I doubt it, but once again I find myself with no reason to be jealous of academia if there are those such as you that represent it.

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Re: 1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Nov 13, 2010 3:28 am

numan wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
numan wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:Peter the Hermit put his faith in God on the first crusade. 25% died on the way and the remainder were killed or sold into slavery when they arrived.

OUCH! What a floater!

I think it says something about the educational attainments of people on this forum that I am the first person to point out the gross inaccuracy of that statement! But age does tend to bring confusion. Perhaps you were thinking of the Children's Crusade?

Numan, you are a complete idiot. You are so stupid it is almost magical. Try checking information before attempting to correct your intellectual superiors.

Sorry to intrude upon your gloating, but...

The First Crusade was completely successful---though perhaps not from the point of view of the people who lived in Palestine. The crusaders captured Jerusalem in 1099, and they slaughtered the inhabitants indiscriminately, so that, according to the story, the blood flowed in the streets up to the knees of the crusaders' horses.

I hesitate to say that you are so stupid it is almost magical, but perhaps you should take your own advice about checking information. .


My gloating continues. You even edited out the hard fact I posted to hide your error.

Peter the Hermit (died July 8, 1115 in Neufmoutier by Huy) was a priest of Amiens and a key figure during the First Crusade..

Numan is a fool who didn't bother to check facts before abusing another member as suffering from old age memory problems when in fact it was Numan who was wrong.

How old are you Numan? 110 or senile at 60?

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Re: 1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000

Postby numan » Sat Nov 13, 2010 4:58 am

'
What a pathetic red herring, Matthew. I was never referring to Peter the Hermit at all [as you well know], but to your absurd statement that the First Crusade was a disaster.
Neither man nor woman can be worth anything until they have discovered that they are fools. This is the first step toward becoming either estimable or agreeable---and until it is taken, there is no hope.

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Re: 1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000

Postby fromthehills » Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:35 am

numan wrote:'
Matthew Ellard wrote:Peter the Hermit put his faith in God on the first crusade. 25% died on the way and the remainder were killed or sold into slavery when they arrived.

OUCH! What a floater!

I think it says something about the educational attainments of people on this forum that I am the first person to point out the gross inaccuracy of that statement!

But age does tend to bring confusion. Perhaps you were thinking of the Children's Crusade?

.


Huh, First Crusade a disaster? I don't see Matthew's reference to that. Are you making {!#%@} up?

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Re: 1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000

Postby numan » Sat Nov 13, 2010 8:50 am

'
Are you blind?

"25% died on the way and the remainder were killed or sold into slavery when they arrived."
Neither man nor woman can be worth anything until they have discovered that they are fools. This is the first step toward becoming either estimable or agreeable---and until it is taken, there is no hope.

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Re: 1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000

Postby rrichar911 » Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:47 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
rrichar911 wrote:Everything that man puts his faith in other than God will fail.


Peter the Hermit put his faith in God on the first crusade. 25% died on the way and the remainder were killed or sold into slavery when they arrived. I think it is better to simply follow "logical plans".


You seem to think there is a difference.

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Re: 1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000

Postby fromthehills » Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:36 am

numan wrote:'
Are you blind?

"25% died on the way and the remainder were killed or sold into slavery when they arrived."


This wasn't the entire Crusade. The fragments of Peter the Hermit's army joined up with other units to go on to "success". The point must have eluded you. He put his faith in God, but he was sorely mistaken.

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Re: 1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000

Postby fromthehills » Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:04 am

rrichar911 wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
rrichar911 wrote:Everything that man puts his faith in other than God will fail.


Peter the Hermit put his faith in God on the first crusade. 25% died on the way and the remainder were killed or sold into slavery when they arrived. I think it is better to simply follow "logical plans".


You seem to think there is a difference.

|Man should put his faith in God's will, rather than expecting God to adopt and approve of our often ill conceived plans.


What are God's plans? Are we to read the mind of God, as mere mortals? The same mere mortals that God created in his image.

This guy, and all 40,000 followers believed they were doing God's will. He lost 10,000 in four months. People that most likely believed with all their heart that God was with them, that God was on their side. They believed in the Christ, and they were going to fight evil heathens. They had every right to think that they were doing right by God. Every right to think it was God's will.

Well, {!#%@} em. Is that your point? It wasn't God's will, therefor they loose? You believe, no matter the lack of evidence, no matter the lessons of history, that God exists, and that you are doing his will, but somehow people that believed every bit as fervently ( most likely more so ) died or were enslaved, and completely abandoned by God, were not doing God's will?

What's God's will? What are his plans? Can you be sure that you actually follow it?

Wait I have a joke. It's not funny, and it will probably suck.

A dad tells the boy to make good grades in school.
The boy works his butt off and brings home straight A s.
The dad beats the {!#%@} out of the boy.
The boy is sobbing, and asks why?
The dad says " I like B s better. "

So choosing between what you may think is God's will, and what is God's will, is impossible, as there is no sign from God on the matter. He's either non-existent, sadistic, or bi-polar. Hmm, I'll stick to my speculation.

Except, in my joke, the dad was far more sensible that God, God never explains.

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Re: 1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:40 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote: Peter the Hermit put his faith in God on the first crusade. 25% died on the way and the remainder were killed or sold into slavery when they arrived. I think it is better to simply follow "logical plans".


rrichar911 wrote: You seem to think there is a difference. |Man should put his faith in God's will, rather than expecting God to adopt and approve of our often ill conceived plans.


How did God inform the Pope what his logical plan was? The bible obviously doesn't mention Islamic unification encroaching eastern europe. To whom and how was God meant to issue updated instructions? If you don't like catholics, who are christian, why did they replace the orthodox christians in Byzantium just before it fell? The Byzantium christians had deals with the Muslims to stay within borders. Which christian group should God have given instructions to?

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Re: 1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000

Postby majusaret94 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:02 pm

The posts here are far too acerbic to be helpful to this discussion.
Are their problems with the claim that statistics "proves" Jesus is the Christ?
Yes! But these problems do not invalidate the evidence that statistics seem strongly favorable to the existence of God.
Why does statistics fail to "prove" there is a God?
Our God is far too big to be "proved" by all the accumulated minds of mankind's best and brightest of His created beings.
Similarly, all the accumulated minds of mankind's best and brightest cannot "prove" God does not exist.
The creature is incapable of proving the Creator exists simply because the Creator did not create us with enough intelligence to prove He exists.
But, He did give us this problem: Everyone worships something or someone.
God can not be proved by evidence, science or logic or philosophy.
But here is a provocative thought; Cogito ergo sum. (re: "Discourse on Method", Rene Descartes, 1637)
All that we perceive as "reality" may be just our imagination, like a dream. We could be nothing more than brains in a jar on some extra cosmic mad scientist's lab table. All we think we perceive is nothing more than the mad scientist stimulating thoughts into our brains.
Regardless, something (or someone) outside of our reality is making this dream seem real. Something or someone is making us "think." And without that something or someone, there is no reason to think at all, or even to be at all, much less to consider that something or someone might be causing us to think.
Of course, we could deny reality exists before or after we are aware of it.
However, most of us believe reality existed before we became aware of it, and that after we are dead reality will continue to exist without our awareness.
Therefore, at this moment as I write this post and as you read this post, we must consider something or someone has ordered this reality for us.
I believe that someone is God. And I hope to meet you in His presence some eternal day.
Jeremiah 29:13
God bless.

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Re: 1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:44 am

"Everyone worships something or someone." BS.
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Re: 1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000

Postby Gord » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:09 am

Oh thank god, I thought Anchor was back....
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

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Re: 1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000

Postby Nikki Nyx » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:50 am

majusaret94 wrote:But these problems do not invalidate the evidence that statistics seem strongly favorable to the existence of God.

How do you figure that?
majusaret94 wrote:Similarly, all the accumulated minds of mankind's best and brightest cannot "prove" God does not exist.

Of course not. You can't prove the non-existence of anything.
majusaret94 wrote:The creature is incapable of proving the Creator exists simply because the Creator did not create us with enough intelligence to prove He exists.

Spectacular example of circular reasoning.
majusaret94 wrote:Everyone worships something or someone.

Personally, I worship coffee.
majusaret94 wrote:God can not be proved by evidence, science or logic or philosophy.

Neither can Bigfoot.
majusaret94 wrote:Regardless, something (or someone) outside of our reality is making this dream seem real. Something or someone is making us "think." And without that something or someone, there is no reason to think at all, or even to be at all, much less to consider that something or someone might be causing us to think.

I'll need a few drinks before that makes any sense at all.
majusaret94 wrote:Therefore, at this moment as I write this post and as you read this post, we must consider something or someone has ordered this reality for us.

All right, who ordered the reality? All I had was a salad. Garçon! Could we have separate checks, please?
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: 1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000

Postby Phoenix76 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:22 am

Love your response LunaNik, actually gave me a giggle.

As for who ordered the reality, just perhaps the Laws of Physics had something to do with it.

And as for all the something or someones, I'm with you LunaNik, but make mine doubles.

Got one thing right. God cannot be proved! Full stop! All I would possibly admit to is that God existence is maybe, sort of, believable. But then that would be stretching it.

As for worship, well there is beer, spirits (drinking kind), lovely women, and, okay, coffee.

As for the creature and its creator, that just mad me dizzy.

And no, you cannot prove that something does not exist. That just doesn't make any sense.

But the first statement about statistics has really caught my attention. I just love statistics - you know what I mean - lies, damn lies, and statistics. statistics can be made to tell you just about anything you like. But honestly, I would like to see these statistics. They could have a big bearing on my future beliefs. But quite frankly, up until now, I have not seen one statistic that proves the existence of God. You only suggest that these statistics seem strongly favourable. That is in no way proof.

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Re: 1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:48 am

Phoenix76 wrote:All I would possibly admit to is that God existence is maybe, sort of, believable.


How?

Lay out the thought process. I can't do it at all........well..........if I rely on an undefined "sort of".....maybe I could do it. I've actually never tried.

Its part of what makes me an anti-thesis. Whether god exists or not is irrelevant (so far in this Universe). Point being...if he existed, he should be contested as full of BS.

"logical impossibilities." The Epicurean paradox. Does such a thing DISPROVE the existence of Dog as described in the Bible?

I think so...........not even sorta.
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Re: 1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000

Postby Poodle » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:39 pm

A survey of 5-year-old children revealed that 97% of them believed in the existence of fairies. This strongly supports the existence of fairies.
Of course, there's no such survey. But there's strong support in this very thread for similar abuse of statistics.

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Re: 1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000

Postby Nikki Nyx » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:16 pm

Phoenix76 wrote:Love your response LunaNik, actually gave me a giggle.

Thanks! Theology tends to make me chuckle. I always wonder if theists ever get dizzy with all the circular reasoning they do.
Phoenix76 wrote:All I would possibly admit to is that God existence is maybe, sort of, believable. But then that would be stretching it.

I don't know...I have a terrific imagination, but the concept of an omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent, and [insert additional applicable omni-descriptives here] being is beyond my capabilities. It just doesn't make rational sense.
Phoenix76 wrote:But the first statement about statistics has really caught my attention. I just love statistics - you know what I mean - lies, damn lies, and statistics. statistics can be made to tell you just about anything you like.

Exactly. This is why I always take a look at the methodology of polls and the sizes of study groups. "Four out of five dentists recommend this gum for their patients who chew gum," is meaningless if they only polled five dentists and the four who recommended the gum were on the payroll of the candy company.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: 1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000

Postby OlegTheBatty » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:38 pm

LunaNik wrote:I'll need a few drinks before that makes any sense at all.


There ain't enough booze in the universe, but it's fun to try.
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Re: 1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000

Postby TJrandom » Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:02 pm

2007, then 2010, and now 2017... so, maybe next up in 2024? Like a locust plague... :banghead:

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Re: 1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:26 pm

TJrandom wrote:2007, then 2010, and now 2017... so, maybe next up in 2024? Like a locust plague... :banghead:

Maybe he's a Fibonacci kook?
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Re: 1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000

Postby Phoenix76 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:37 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Phoenix76 wrote:All I would possibly admit to is that God existence is maybe, sort of, believable.


How?

Lay out the thought process. I can't do it at all........well..........if I rely on an undefined "sort of".....maybe I could do it. I've actually never tried.

Its part of what makes me an anti-thesis. Whether god exists or not is irrelevant (so far in this Universe). Point being...if he existed, he should be contested as full of BS.

"logical impossibilities." The Epicurean paradox. Does such a thing DISPROVE the existence of Dog as described in the Bible?

I think so...........not even sorta.


Well bobbo, I've just finished a book titled "Universe from Nothing". It takes us from the "big bang" through to today, and then conjures where we might end in the future. So there could be supposition at the start, and of course when dealing with the future.

The whole study of course is based on every branch of physics known to us. Even brings Darwin into the fray. Okay, the big bang is a scientific given, so is evolution. The fact that the universe is expanding at a rapid rate, and is a flat universe, are also scientific givens.

So, to me, the only place that a godman may have played a part is just before the big bang, or perhaps god may get involved in the end game, but on present scientific calculations, that is some 3 trillion years away. So we have no idea of the future, we can ignore that in our search, but at the start we have no evidence of what was before the big bang, but we know it happened. So maybe, perhaps, sort of, the godman may have had something to do with it. If I had to make a hard and fast choice I would say not.

Of course if you do accept that the godman was involved in the big bang, then the next question is, "Where did he come from?" and so on ad infinitum.

So, my learned pragmatic friend, there are certain things we don't know, and maybe will never know, so some people may go for the godman as the answer. And being a very friendly, accommodating sort of a bloke, I will go so far as to say, well, sort of, maybe, perhaps. :roll:

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Re: 1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:08 am

Phoenix: read it twice....still don't see the how.

Sort of doesn't work either. The same explanation would apply to the Big Bang being caused by The Sacred Black Crow shitting out the universe.

many will say that evolution is how God created life on earth...same with Big Bang.

Not Knowing is not a synonym for any crazy illogical notion one wants to add to what IS known. Not Knowing is not a synonym for "sort of." and it doesn't explain how.

Hmmmm....maybe we need another word for this situation? Dawkins says he is just that hairs breath away from saying God doesn't exist..... for all practicalities that he does not, but not "absolutely" as in proving a negative. Thats enough space for sort of. I reject it........still waiting for our language to catch up.
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