Flat Earth, fake moon landings etc.

God, the FSM, and everything else.
Post Reply
User avatar
landrew
Has More Than 8K Posts
Posts: 8031
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:51 am

Flat Earth, fake moon landings etc.

Post by landrew » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:44 pm

The desire to be led down a path of selective rationale, towards an improbable conclusion is not a natural one in my opinion. The sale of the Brooklyn Bridge multiple times, swampland real estate in Florida, and $10,000 lots being sold at my college with a 1-hour time limit, turned out to be 1 square foot lots. There's always a big potential payoff to offset our normally cautious rationale.
But where's the payoff for a flat earth? What has anyone to gain by forsaking their own powers of reasoning, in favor of a ridiculous belief? Is it something so simple as stupidity? Or have we been conditioned by other factors to expect some sort of payoff based on taking an improbable position?
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 21954
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: Flat Earth, fake moon landings etc.

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:16 pm

The disease is "common sense". Look around, does the Earth look curved to you? Of course not! Everyone is lying to you.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"
WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

Aztexan
King of the Limericks
King of the Limericks
Posts: 8897
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:39 pm

Re: Flat Earth, fake moon landings etc.

Post by Aztexan » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:15 pm

Someone should livestream themselves on a 'round the globe trip and see what happens
trump is Putin's bitch

User avatar
Lausten
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3593
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:33 pm
Location: Northern Minnesota
Contact:

Re: Flat Earth, fake moon landings etc.

Post by Lausten » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:28 pm

In a recent conversation with someone I know, my best description of them would be that they enjoyed being right. The video they decided to defend was that the exosphere has temperatures of 2,000 degrees, which would melt the metals in the lunar lander, so the moon landing was fake. This is easily verified as true, but it ignores the explanation of how you take the temperature of the exosphere. It's not the same as taking the temp in Death Valley. You can research that yourself. Additional facts didn't matter, he had the facts he wanted, he had a couple people agree with him, that was all he needed.

My attempts to educate were met by the usual accusations of me believing mainstream media and being a sheeple and all that. That's the point of it, to set up something that has to be explained by an authority, then arguing that they are better at knowing what an authority really is. Their authority is always a non-scientist, or sometimes an ex-scientist, or sometimes someone from a different science, or in the case of moon landings, one of the astronauts, who didn't know about particles in the exosphere, because he didn't need to know. Because I accept an atmospheric scientist's opinion on the atmosphere, that sets me up as the dupe, the one who will believe whatever I'm told. But because they are getting their information from this outside-the-norm rogue who has no stake in the game except THE TRUTH, well, they must be right.
A sermon helper that doesn't tell you what to believe: http://www.milepost100.com

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 21954
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: Flat Earth, fake moon landings etc.

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:43 pm

Aztexan wrote:Someone should livestream themselves on a 'round the globe trip and see what happens
True Believers will reject it. "Just a stunt, a faked event to fool the public." The pictures taken of the Earth from the Moon are perfect examples of this kind of thing.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"
WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
TJrandom
Has More Than 9K Posts
Posts: 9661
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:55 am
Location: Pacific coast outside of Tokyo bay.
Contact:

Re: Flat Earth, fake moon landings etc.

Post by TJrandom » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:06 pm

Surely no educated person really believes the earth is flat, that Trump doesn`t lie even when it is in his best interest to tell the truth, that climate change isn`t caused by man, that prayer for another being works, etc., etc. They may say and even defend such statements, but not really believe them. At least I hope this to be true.

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 21954
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: Flat Earth, fake moon landings etc.

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:15 pm

Educated people believe the being that created the universe hears their prayers.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"
WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 21954
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: Flat Earth, fake moon landings etc.

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:16 pm

I think one core objection the flatters have is that the universe just can't be that big!
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"
WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
Cadmusteeth
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1179
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:43 pm
Location: Colorado, USA

Re: Flat Earth, fake moon landings etc.

Post by Cadmusteeth » Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:08 am

It goes against their preconceived notions which are most likely ideological in nature.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 28673
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Flat Earth, fake moon landings etc.

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:34 am

landrew wrote:But where's the payoff for a flat earth? What has anyone to gain by forsaking their own powers of reasoning, in favor of a ridiculous belief?
I think another lesser contributing reason is that, claiming the world is flat, may have indicated you were religious and a "good christian" to other people, 100 years ago

User avatar
TJrandom
Has More Than 9K Posts
Posts: 9661
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:55 am
Location: Pacific coast outside of Tokyo bay.
Contact:

Re: Flat Earth, fake moon landings etc.

Post by TJrandom » Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:35 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:I think one core objection the flatters have is that the universe just can't be that big!
I don`t think that is the case - but rather that they don`t want to be outed in a society (tribe) that sings from the same hymnal. There are lots of atheist preachers out there and many more worship-day theists.

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 21954
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: Flat Earth, fake moon landings etc.

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:42 am

TJrandom wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:I think one core objection the flatters have is that the universe just can't be that big!
I don`t think that is the case - but rather that they don`t want to be outed in a society (tribe) that sings from the same hymnal. There are lots of atheist preachers out there and many more worship-day theists.
That doesn't make any sense.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"
WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
TJrandom
Has More Than 9K Posts
Posts: 9661
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:55 am
Location: Pacific coast outside of Tokyo bay.
Contact:

Re: Flat Earth, fake moon landings etc.

Post by TJrandom » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:34 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:I think one core objection the flatters have is that the universe just can't be that big!
I don`t think that is the case - but rather that they don`t want to be outed in a society (tribe) that sings from the same hymnal. There are lots of atheist preachers out there and many more worship-day theists.
That doesn't make any sense.
I agree - flat earthers and theists normally don`t make sense.

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has No Life
Posts: 11603
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: Flat Earth, fake moon landings etc.

Post by Lance Kennedy » Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:10 am

TO Lauston

Re the temperature of the exosphere.
For a hot exosphere to melt a moon lander, it has to transfer that heat to the moon lander. But the exosphere is almost vacuum, meaning little heat actually held there. High temperature on a few molecules, but so few molecules that total heat energy is very low. The space vehicle is in the exosphere for a short time, and very little heat is transferred.

It is the opposite for cold of space, another fallacy held by many people. The very, very few molecules actually in space are at a very low temperature. But heat transfer to those few molecules is so slow and difficult that a space vehicle in space does not cool down. In fact, the opposite happens. Anything in space with humans and human activities includes heat generating activities and the space vehicle or habitat will warm up rather too much. The International Space Station has no problem with the cold of space. Instead it has a problem with internally generated heat causing the internal temperature to rise to dangerous levels. For this reason, it has special heat radiators built into it to dump heat.

People think high temperature means things are heated. Not so. You need high heat transfer as well which does not happen.

This is the secret of "fire walkers " also. They walk on hot coals or hot rocks, but with very slow heat transfer, so they do not get burned. Touch hot metal and you are instantly burned, since metal transfers heat quickly. But touch a piece of wood at the same high temperature and it does not burn you, since heat transfer from wood is very slow.

User avatar
Lausten
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3593
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:33 pm
Location: Northern Minnesota
Contact:

Re: Flat Earth, fake moon landings etc.

Post by Lausten » Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:02 pm

You're preaching to the choir Lance. I figured all that out. I linked to a website about the exosphere, but it was a science site, which is what he is predisposed to believe is a lie. He thinks the entire set of human knowledge was configured to support the lie that the moon landing was faked. The YouTube he watched took what was basically a chart that could have been in a high school textbook, showing the temperatures of the various layers of the atmosphere. It then showed another graphic with the melting points of various metals, and finally, with a little "wha-lah" the metals that make up the lunar lander. Then he just ranted about "how is this possible", quote mined some NASA interviews and told you to think for yourself.

All these other facts, about how you need to apply that heat to that metal to get it to melt and the difference between temperature and heat transfer don't matter. When I say something like "special heat radiators" to this guy, I might was well be Gordie LaForge on Star Trek making up something like the "dampening array". The facts of the moon landing itself are irrelevant, there is something else that led him to hold that what is in his head is truth, and anything I might find, describe, or reference is fiction.

He's decided that the government, scientists, his teachers, the news media and all are in cahoots to create a fake world so they can take away our freedoms or something. Everything else builds on that.
A sermon helper that doesn't tell you what to believe: http://www.milepost100.com

User avatar
Cadmusteeth
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1179
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:43 pm
Location: Colorado, USA

Re: Flat Earth, fake moon landings etc.

Post by Cadmusteeth » Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:26 pm

So basically he has an unhealthy skepticism of everything that goes against his beliefs.

User avatar
ElectricMonk
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 4219
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:21 pm
Custom Title: The Baby-eating Bishop

Re: Flat Earth, fake moon landings etc.

Post by ElectricMonk » Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:33 pm

Nonsense!
Space is freezing cold - otherwise all those Space Horror movies would be wrong.

User avatar
landrew
Has More Than 8K Posts
Posts: 8031
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:51 am

Re: Flat Earth, fake moon landings etc.

Post by landrew » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:52 pm

Sometimes being at odds with the posse gives someone the illusion that they are the hero of the story, on the run from a big bad conspiracy.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 21954
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: Flat Earth, fake moon landings etc.

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:24 pm

And the reason they're not part of the posse is because nobody will trust them with a gun.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"
WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has No Life
Posts: 11603
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: Flat Earth, fake moon landings etc.

Post by Lance Kennedy » Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:49 pm

I think landrew is correct in that such idiots like to think they are special - a part of an elite who "know " what is going on when no one else does. A pity they are morons.

User avatar
landrew
Has More Than 8K Posts
Posts: 8031
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:51 am

Re: Flat Earth, fake moon landings etc.

Post by landrew » Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:50 pm

Is it a battle for truth, or is it a battle for ego?
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

User avatar
Lausten
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3593
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:33 pm
Location: Northern Minnesota
Contact:

Re: Flat Earth, fake moon landings etc.

Post by Lausten » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:09 pm

landrew wrote:Is it a battle for truth, or is it a battle for ego?
My vote is for ego. I've gone over the methods of science in detail with a few people and had them agree with me every step of the way, but, as soon as we try to apply those methods to their particular pet belief, they immediately switch back to personal experience, claims with no evidence, confusion about experts and authorities, and when all else fails, personal attacks about me being "closed minded".
A sermon helper that doesn't tell you what to believe: http://www.milepost100.com

User avatar
Cadmusteeth
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1179
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:43 pm
Location: Colorado, USA

Re: Flat Earth, fake moon landings etc.

Post by Cadmusteeth » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:49 pm

Yeah, people tend to tie their beliefs with their identity, so yeah, it’s definitely ego.

Post Reply