Hate speech / free speech

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Hate speech / free speech

Postby Lance Kennedy » Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:32 am

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_sp ... ed_Kingdom

In Britain, as the reference above details, hate speech is banned by law and can get the speaker into all sorts of trouble. In the USA, hate speech is considered to be part of the right to free speech, and while not condoned, is permitted. Who is right ?

Personally, I believe that the government of a nation has a duty to prevent harm to its citizens, and thus has not just the right, but the obligation, to curtail any words or deeds that cause harm to its citizens. But what is your view ?

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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:17 am

FTL:
The Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 inserted Section 4A into the Public Order Act 1986. That part prohibits anyone from causing alarm or distress. Section 4A states, in part:

(1) A person is guilty of an offence if, with intent to cause a person harassment, alarm or distress, he—

(a) uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or

(b) displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting,

thereby causing that or another person harassment, alarm or distress.


How do YOU advocate a law that you have recently so objectively violated yourself? ............. a stretch goal????
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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:40 am

There are pros and cons to every social policy. In general, at first blush many "ideas" that sound good have horrendous down steam effects not appreciated in the rush for the sounds good. Prohibition is a good example.

In my view, the balance of hate speech vs free speech should fall heavily on the side of free speech even WITH THE HARM IT DOES CAUSE, to avoid the even worse horribles that so easily follow when free speech is restricted. Its a too short step to go from protecting racial minorities from the haters to insulated our elected leaders from their malfeasance.

As is so often stated: the remedy for hate speech is: MORE SPEECH. Not to be confused with actual calls for violence. On balance, I think our Free Speech laws is one of the few things the USA has about right.
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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby Lance Kennedy » Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:08 pm

Bobbo

I could be offended that you refer to my earlier comments as hate speech. You need to learn a better definition of hate speech. My criticisms of lousy logic as being idiotic do not meet that definition.

You should also look at the effects of legal limits on hate speech, and see if the result is undesirable. It is not. Britain shows this. Actually, so does NZ which has a ban on hate speech in its human rights legislation. I agree with this, and see protection against hate speech as a human right.

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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby Io » Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:10 am

These sort of social issues, where the actions taken to solve them produce other problems that are just as troublesome, are a symptom of a problem elsewhere in that society: You don't necessarily need to solve this problem - it goes away or is more easily handled if you sort something else out. In this case, probably better education very early on in life (like infancy), better education in general and better parenting/guardianship.
Raise them kids right an they'll be able to handle what life throws at them and not deal out so much shit.

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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby Lance Kennedy » Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:47 am

All of which sounds good. But the results do not bear that out. Hate speech, for example, results in victims suicide.

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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby TJrandom » Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:57 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:FTL:
The Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 inserted Section 4A into the Public Order Act 1986. That part prohibits anyone from causing alarm or distress. Section 4A states, in part:

(1) A person is guilty of an offence if, with intent to cause a person harassment, alarm or distress, he—

(a) uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or

(b) displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting,

thereby causing that or another person harassment, alarm or distress.
...


Wow - a great law to use against Jehovah Witnesses...

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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:34 am

I'm just pointing out that that there some highly educated academics and contributors, concerning hate speech, in the anti-holocaust denial sub forum.

It's just one of those odd things that only a couple of the 20 or so members that sub-forum post in the general forum.
:D

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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby Lance Kennedy » Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:44 am

Fair comment, Matthew.
I do not haunt that section, since my tolerance levels for extreme piles of bull-shit tend to be low. Bobbo complained that I was nasty to him when he presented some garbage logic on another thread. If I were to expose myself to the holocaust deniers, I would be unable to contain the major insults, and my response might well approach hate speech.

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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:49 am

Lance Kennedy wrote: I do not haunt that section......
That's the odd thing. The girls and boys in that sub forum did such a good job, there are hardly anymore holocaust deniers left. So..... they mostly talk about US politics and things like hate speech laws. :D

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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby Poodle » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:40 am

We should read the quoted UK law carefully. It is not the heat in any argument, nor (in most cases) the words used which are controlled. It is the INTENT which can break the law. Having a good old ding-dong is in no way illegal.

EDIT: And yes - it can be incredibly difficult to prove intent.

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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:22 am

Gee Lance: I say you applied hate speech to run some of the contributers right off the thread. See the problem yet?
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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:33 am

Yea....I see hate speech laws VERY NARROWLY DRAWN against holocaust denial in countries where the holocaust took place as close to a valid exception to the superseding values of free speech as I can think of. There is always creep, and there is always fraud....thinking of Turkish Laws declaring any reference to the Armenian Genocide as Hate Speech.

Hate Speech: anything those in power don't want discussed. See the problem yet?
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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby craig4 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:00 pm

TJrandom wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:FTL:
The Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 inserted Section 4A into the Public Order Act 1986. That part prohibits anyone from causing alarm or distress. Section 4A states, in part:

(1) A person is guilty of an offence if, with intent to cause a person harassment, alarm or distress, he—

(a) uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or

(b) displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting,

thereby causing that or another person harassment, alarm or distress.
...


Wow - a great law to use against Jehovah Witnesses...


Seems like a great law to use against anyone depending on which way the wind is blowing.

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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:53 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote: Bobbo complained that I was nasty to him when he presented some garbage logic on another thread.

Wut?/?/.... that doesn't sound like me. Something else with some of the same words perhaps but I pride myself on not being insultable or aka having hurt feelings because of some post directed at me. The filter is always: what is the factual content being alleged here? If false...not relevant. If true..a wonderful learning opportunity. I'm sure you are just slightly incorrect. Course.....I have been deep into HCider of late. Got a current batch ready to devour, but the taste buds have gone quiet.

....................almost...................... as if .................. I believe....................... In free speech. See the solution yet?
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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:02 pm

Poodle wrote:We should read the quoted UK law carefully. It is not the heat in any argument, nor (in most cases) the words used which are controlled. It is the INTENT which can break the law. Having a good old ding-dong is in no way illegal.

EDIT: And yes - it can be incredibly difficult to prove intent.

Intent is usually established by the very words used. Even when a high standard is in the intent of the law, intent is the steepest and slipperiest of slopes. And who is it being "protected"? except those who's response to "mere words" is to kill themselves? Hmmmm......giving up freedom for a suboptimal result ..... in my book.
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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby TJrandom » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:28 pm

Your `suboptimal result` being... that someone doesn`t kill themselves? If whether or not a person will proceed to kill themselves due to being harangued by hate speech is the measure - I`d say it is a tad too strict.

I`d offer that the target has a presumption of a right to `life liberty and pursuit of happiness`, and any `free speech` that intentionally and repetitively negatively impacts upon it should be looked upon as being hate speech.

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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby Lance Kennedy » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:43 pm

That "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness " phrase is more political propaganda than anything meaningful. I would rather look at the United Nations Charter of Human Rights, which is designed to be specific and provide a guide that can be followed.

Nations and their governments have a duty to care for their citizens. That includes providing and policing laws that prevent individuals harming other individuals. Often such laws reduce some freedoms. That is a matter of balance. If the loss of freedom is more than compensated for by an increase in the welfare of the citizens, then that loss of liberty is justified. That is why we ban drunk driving.

In the same way, a reduction in freedom of speech in order to reduce harm to people can be justified, if the harm reduction outweighs any possible harm from the loss of freedom of speech.

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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:42 am

TJrandom wrote:Your `suboptimal result` being... that someone doesn`t kill themselves? If whether or not a person will proceed to kill themselves due to being harangued by hate speech is the measure - I`d say it is a tad too strict.

I`d offer that the target has a presumption of a right to `life liberty and pursuit of happiness`, and any `free speech` that intentionally and repetitively negatively impacts upon it should be looked upon as being hate speech.

......and I can even agree with you UNLESS you in context also mean that such speech should be illegal and subject the speaker to jail time....and then the speaker commits suicide as well ALONG WITH the entire population of the land is prevented from life liberty and pursuit of happiness as they censor themselves from any speech too close to the mark thereby allowing all manner of social harm otherwise to proceed.

Notes on LLPH: its not a law, just a general direction or goal or motivating desire. The H in LLPH is not "happy" as we think of today but in its time and place meant in its most approved Lockean formulation: "the pursuit of prosperity" whereas what I read once and prefer bit have forgotten the source of was "a good life well lived" which in its time and place meant the pursuit and application of moral principles.

when I suggest people need to read the dictionary, I rarely have to caution to get one from the right century, but in this case, it really is a must.

Those in favor of hate speech CRIMES........just aren't very pragmatic as to the effects of such misplaced emotionalism. Sand in the panties.
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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:46 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:That "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness " phrase is more political propaganda than anything meaningful. I would rather look at the United Nations Charter of Human Rights, which is designed to be specific and provide a guide that can be followed.

Nations and their governments have a duty to care for their citizens. That includes providing and policing laws that prevent individuals harming other individuals. Often such laws reduce some freedoms. That is a matter of balance. If the loss of freedom is more than compensated for by an increase in the welfare of the citizens, then that loss of liberty is justified. That is why we ban drunk driving.

In the same way, a reduction in freedom of speech in order to reduce harm to people can be justified, if the harm reduction outweighs any possible harm from the loss of freedom of speech.

I agree entirely but note in my view your application is a demonstration of more harm to more people than the original supposition supports. The greater harm: allowing people to wallow in their own fragile mindset rather than being set free to champion their own original thinking. What they need is their own competent education or psychiatric counseling rather than a Police State Big Brother putting other people in jail.
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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby TJrandom » Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:40 am

@Bobbo - example: Sound truck parked outside a primary school that teaches (name your preferred ethnicity) repeating over and over for 6 hours a day, the following with numerous variations in loud screaming voices - you dirty (add slur), your mothers are (add slur), your fathers are (add slur), you are failures who will never become more than (add slur). We are watching you (add slur) and will get you (add slur), better watch out you filthy (add slur).

Free speech that should be protected by law? Or should these `free speechers` have their tongues excised - that is, be prosecuted for hate speech? Maybe have their sound truck impounded?

(Sound truck - a truck or van, painted black, windows blackened, 4 large speakers on top, racial slurs painted on the sides... )

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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:48 am

Bad Example TJ....what you demonstrate is a disturbance of the peace. In a "sense" not speech at all: just noise. Or in a way not similar to Hate Speech the imposition of noise that is interfering with other people pursuing other valid societal issues like getting an education. Individuals not having their own various private positions disagreed with is "not" a valid societal goal.

support: the same words being sound blasted at the school should be allowed in some other public space....the decibels as allowed to any other speech. In your example, if sounds with no words at all were played, that sound itself would be illegal. Its not the words, its the sound. Free Speech has always been regulated as to time, place, and manner. Don't confuse regulating noise/decibels with regulating Free Speech.
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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby TJrandom » Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:57 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Bad Example TJ....what you demonstrate is a disturbance of the peace. In a "sense" not speech at all: just noise. Or in a way not similar to Hate Speech the imposition of noise that is interfering with other people pursuing other valid societal issues like getting an education. Individuals not having their own various private positions disagreed with is "not" a valid societal goal.

support: the same words being sound blasted at the school should be allowed in some other public space....the decibles as allowed to any other speech. In your example, if sounds with no words at all were played, that sound itself would be illegal. Its not the words, its the sound. Free Speech has always been regulated as to time, place, and manner. Its the CONTENT that marks Free Speech/Ideas from noise/decibels.


Nope - very good and real life example. The slurs and `we will get you` are NOT just noise - they are words with meanings. There are no private positions here, but rather ethnic classification that is being attacked by `free speech` from peoples of different ethnicities.

But I am not sure you answered my question - would you say that my example should be protected by law as free speech? Or did you intend to not answer?

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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:03 am

TJ: you have given a text book example of what is not free speech but noise regulation.

Period.

Re read until you understand the difference. THE CONTENT of the noise is IRRELEVANT: so its not a "speech" issue.

Not to dither: in your particular example: the students are required to be in the school. The reason this is permitted is for their education. Their education in this state imposed mandate supercedes whatever Free Speech of others might even be relevant, which is NOT THE CASE in what you present.

Can't you "balance" Free Speech interests with Noise Abatement? Too subtle????
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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby TJrandom » Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:11 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:TJ: you have given a text book example of what is not free speech but noise regulation.

Period.

Re read until you understand the difference. THE CONTENT of the noise is IRRELEVANT: so its not a "speech" issue.

Not to dither: in your particular example: the students are required to be in the school. The reason this is permitted is for their education. Their education in this state imposed mandate supercedes whatever Free Speech of others might even be relevant, which is NOT THE CASE in what you present.

Can't you "balance" Free Speech interests with Noise Abatement? Too subtle????


The sound trucks keep the sound level within the legal decibel levels for those hours of the day – construction jack hammer levels. It is NOT a sound issue. It is the words, and only the words.

Again – hate speech or not?

Is there any combination of words, or any scenario that equates to hate speech for you? If there is, please give me an example.

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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:22 am

TJ: dogged you are, jack hammering away at the foundation of a Free Society. Of course: if the Loud Noise of the Sound Truck is within legal decible limits then I would assume restricting that sound would be a violation of Free Speech.

I previously gave an "almost" exception to anti Holocaust Denial Speech laws. That was an almost because in my view Free Speech is the Cure: AKA: Hate Speech should be responded to by MORE SPEECH: not Big Brother criminal statutes: AGAIN: FOR THE REASONS GIVEN. So....there is lots of Hate Speech. It should NOT be illegal, but countered by the arguments against it.

And Again: don't confuse/lump in Hate Speech with actual calls for violence. Its very close, but different all together. Give Hate Speakers enough time, and they will rotate into calls for violence. THEN: you use the State Apparatus.

Hate Speech: I dont think Jesus Christ ever existed as a real person. Should I be put in jail for posting that? Or than in the early 20th Century 100's K's of Armenians were rounded up and killed by the Turk Army? Should I be put in jail for speaking the truth because some people are in the terms of the law: "distressed."

Get Real. Value the Truth, not the comfortable.
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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby TJrandom » Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:30 am

Suggesting that primary school children should respond with words against a well-organized association of bullies that spews hate words is mind boggling. But there you go, IMO, quite silly and actually quite damaging to society too.

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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:40 am

Ha, ha....that is silly. I note, you are the only one suggesting it.

Free People DEMAND Free Speech. Shut up slave.

(Sarc off.....but there is still a nugget.)
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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby TJrandom » Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:02 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Ha, ha....that is silly. I note, you are the only one suggesting it.

Free People DEMAND Free Speech. Shut up slave.

(Sarc off.....but there is still a nugget.)


Sooo that isn`t what you meant by:
… in my view Free Speech is the Cure: AKA: Hate Speech should be responded to by MORE SPEECH: not Big Brother criminal statutes: AGAIN: FOR THE REASONS GIVEN. So....there is lots of Hate Speech. It should NOT be illegal, but countered by the arguments against it.
? If not, please do explain.

IMO - civilized people demand civilization and use laws to secure it. After all, nobody wants to live with anarchy which is where bullies with rights but no obligations take us.

And while we are at it, are you channeling Tom or gorgeous with your fear of `Big Brother` - fear of democracy in action?

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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:14 am

Tj..I don't know what you mean by "Soo that isn't what you meant by...." Everything I say is consistent. The first quote is more a humorous exercise of word play...but still more correct than vaunting. The second quote is repeating what I said initially.

Yes, or No....civilized people. I don't think they "demand" anything. They desire and prefer civilization and laws to secure it....but most civilized so minded people are too busy with their own lives. Demand is a term of rhetoric, catchy, emotional. When you go into a voting booth and vote.....you are voting. Not demanding. I don't think of protestors in the street as "civilized" but it is very much definitional. Probably a side issue, but we need to recognize BS when it is steaming in front of us ...even when we put it out there ourselves. Thats a joy of words, word play, imagery, tempo, cadence....etc

After all, nobody wants to live with anarchy which is where bullies with rights but no obligations take us.

Much like your comment re primary school children responding...the issue/occurrence of anarchy is not on the table AT ALL. RATHER: JUST THE OPPOSITE: What should the law be? How is that anarchy? Accepting that framework arguendo...I assume those who have a "right" are the only ones capable of bullying? If you bully without a foundational right to do so, that is not anarchy but rather criminal behavior. So...its who do you want to be the bullies in society: those who want to prevent free speech according to their own emotions, or those who want to have full and complete exchange of ideas without censorship? Following your circular construct, rights are rights, obligations are obligations. You associate the two in a vacuum without meaning or import.

You need to brush up on your Orwell. Big Brother is not about democracy in action....again: just the opposite.

Heh, heh: so many things you have exactly backwards. No wonder you want hate speech regulation. At least, it all fits together? ........................ You do have the intellect and character to follow your better Angels.
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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby TJrandom » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:38 am

Bobbo - word salad, nothing more. Go ahead - focus on side issues - words you want to pick apart instead of looking at the larger picture. Oil and vinegar, French, sweet mustard, or basil and garlic for you sir? Personally I don`t use the stuff, preferring to taste the flavor of the ingredients.

The example I gave is real - that is, it is a reoccurring event. What to do about it? Ignore it? Fine if you are not one of the kiddies. What is your ethnicity – and isn`t there a slur that might rile, particularly if repeated in your face for years – demeaning you, your parents, your sister, your brother, your heritage?

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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:48 am

TJ---what the frick are you talking about? NOT word salad: highly instructive/reality based. NO side issues. No larger issues. Of course I use all condiments as every civilized person DEMANDS.

What example is "real" in your book? A speaker/sound truck outside a school room loudly blaring some hate speech? I've never seen or heard or read about it. Have done with such tactics outside of Abortion Clinics. In those cases which would not be as protected as a school environment, noise and blocking public access laws were applied to the activity the same as would be applied to any other speech, sound, noise, music,....whatever. The POINT of a noise ordinance (for Hospitals is well known, but for schools as well) is that the noise should not enterfere with what is going on inside===>ie: the kiddies won't be hearing whatever ethnic slurs concern you. If they do, the noise ordinance needs to be amended to achieve its legitimate goals. if they hear the message on their way into the school, its not their burden to respond to the message, unless they want to. Rather....its a good opportunity for the TEACHER to explain the Western/USA Value of Constitutional Guarantees of Free Speech as balanced against good public order. Evidently a good 7th grade class you could benefit from as well.

Yes.......brush up on your Orwell. There is a WORLD OF DIFFERENCE in having your personal dignity assaulted by some private group with all the tools available to neutralize such idiot based harangues VERSUS Big Brother putting you in jail. I hope you will admit the difference...............
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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby TJrandom » Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:05 am

Well, no friging wonder - if you haven`t personally experienced it, it doesn’t concern you. Privileged member of your ghetto, no doubt.

But wait – we are supposed to change laws on `noise` in order to control words? And that is supposed to fix the problem? Ooops, no nearby construction during school hours, no street repair, no ambulances – all because we can`t address the vile bullies in their sound truck?

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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:48 am

TJ---I know it is too easy to get wrapped uped in defending a position, but really, you are making NO SENSE.

1. What is it you think I haven't experienced in my privileged ghetto? If you mean being a child and having a sound truck blare hateful messages to me, you are correct. .... but.... you surely don't mean THAT?---right? I assume you recall my memories of racial animus of Japanese moving away from me and my family on train commutes in Japan. I also have other experiences of being a white minority in some other culture....but I don't see it as relevant. Connect it up if you think personal experience mandates some final conclusion on Free Speech (the LAW IN THE USA) vs Hate Speech being Criminalized elsewhere in the world....... the pro's and the con's????

2. Please pay attention: noise laws, public safety, public free access is about those things. It is NOT to control words. There are no words in the loud decibles of Jack Hammers. Why is the noise assault any more justified just because the noise is made up of words. You do recognize YOUR argument (this aspect of it) is actually in support of Free Speech .... right?

3. Please state you do understand what time, place, and manner restrictions means when it comes to Free Speech/Hate Speech or......that you need to read up on it more. (Hint: you do.)

4. Please understand the issue is not about "bullies" other than as cheap rhetoric you should rise above. THIRD TIME: "THE PROBLEM" of speech you don't like is to understand it is the cost of FREE SPEECH....the market place of ideas ... learning to overcome opposition, to argue your case, to weight the pros and cons, to recognize IN A DEMOCRACY: people will disagree with you. And like all laws meant to protect: Hate crime speech too often is used by those in power to simply PUT IN PRISON...people they don't like....aka: social activists OF EVERY VALUE. You have a very special and erreonous notion (rhetoric==>propaganda) calling someone only trying to speak a message you don't like as being a Bully. MORE THE BULLY: putting you in jail for what you truly believe.

You are approaching the issue as whatever you think Hate Speech is about is extrinsically wrong and that it can be stopped by State Enforced Criminal Laws without any harm that just as likely would be worse that the Hate you wish to banish. Think of Prohibition, drug laws, etc. Get the STate to make such activities illegal....and you give birth to organized crime.

FREE SPEECH. I'll say again: one of the few things the USA has about right. Hate Speech laws making certain ideas criminal to express: a very steep slippery slope if not in the gutter to begin with. Criminalizing bad behavior: save me from the Church Ladies. Man up........and THINK for yourself. If words hurt you that much..... you need to grow up.
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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby Aztexan » Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:14 pm

If I yell "FIRE!!!" will everyone evacuate this thread?
If a klan rally is held in the forest, would it make a sound?
Yes, that dress makes you look fat.
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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:38 pm

Aztexan wrote:If I yell "FIRE!!!" will everyone evacuate this thread?

There is no fire....so you should be arrested for public nuisance. False speech is not protected Free Speech.

Aztexan wrote: If a klan rally is held in the forest, would it make a sound?
Ha, ha....excellent parallel construction. the Clan in America...probably as close an exception to Free Speech as we have......maybe Nazi's marching as well. "Actually" I would not have too much of a problem if some kind of formal process found these groups to be odius and a public danger to outlawing their speech/marches/parades. These speech laws do define what a society values. Note the "FORMAL" procedure for finding the public harm any such group might constitute. NOT THE PERSONAL reaction of our most delicate individuals.

Aztexan wrote: Yes, that dress makes you look fat.
I don't wear dresses, but the same comment would apply to pants....if I ever asked you.

One out of Three: not bad..................in comparison.
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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby Aztexan » Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:32 pm

You're a real hoot at parties, ain't you?
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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:22 pm

Pretty Much. If people don't want conflict........ they don't invite me. Thats why "I" throw most of the parties.

Imagine: the cops come and tell me to turn the volume down on my music. They never have mentioned what song is playing. Noise vs Speech. They do come quicker when I crank up the shamisen.....everyone is a critic.
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby Aztexan » Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:34 pm

FWIW, my last post wasn't aimed at you. I found two pennies on the floor and thought I'd toss em y'alls way. I didn't mean to hit you. It just happens from time to time.
Also, FWIW, I agree with you. People say ugly, offensive things all the time. I just got good at knowing when to dodge em or catch em and throw em back.
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Re: Hate speech / free speech

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:06 pm

Aimed or not, it seemed to fit me............but who really knows? I NEVER asked anyone why they did or did not invite me to their soirees. All EGO on my part to think I'm such a rebel that people would think I ruin a party atmosphere. Thing is though..;..my closest friends who DID know me thought exactly that. RIGHT IN YOUR FACE! is what I would do.....after 4-5 beers. Sober: I'm a pillar of conformist society.

Same as it always was...................
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
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