The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

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The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby Nikki Nyx » Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:56 pm

I've posted that Original Sin is a Lie, but I thought I'd start a thread for the logical lacunae in the theology. So, here's one to start the ball rolling...

Christianity teaches that Heaven is a place of eternal reward for the faithful who heed the word of God, while Hell is a place of eternal torture for the unfaithful who disobey the word of God. It teaches that God is good, while Satan is evil...that God gave humans free will and doesn't interfere, but Satan actively intervenes to tempt humans to commit sins.

Here's the flaw: If Satan is God's adversary, why would he punish humans for doing his bidding?

There are two ways to resolve the logical flaw:
EITHER Hell is not a place of eternal torture, but is a place of eternal reward for sinners, and the whole "eternal torture" schtick is merely God's propaganda.
OR God has Dissociative Identity Disorder, and the Satan personality is really God, punishing sinners under a different name.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby Monster » Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:44 pm

Here's the flaw: If Satan is God's adversary, why would he punish humans for doing his bidding?


I don't see the logical flaw that you say exists in this statement. Can you expand on this?
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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby OlegTheBatty » Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:51 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote:I've posted that Original Sin is a Lie, but I thought I'd start a thread for the logical lacunae in the theology. So, here's one to start the ball rolling...

Christianity teaches that Heaven is a place of eternal reward for the faithful who heed the word of God, while Hell is a place of eternal torture for the unfaithful who disobey the word of God. It teaches that God is good, while Satan is evil...that God gave humans free will and doesn't interfere, but Satan actively intervenes to tempt humans to commit sins.

Here's the flaw: If Satan is God's adversary, why would he punish humans for doing his bidding?

There are two ways to resolve the logical flaw:
EITHER Hell is not a place of eternal torture, but is a place of eternal reward for sinners, and the whole "eternal torture" schtick is merely God's propaganda.
OR God has Dissociative Identity Disorder, and the Satan personality is really God, punishing sinners under a different name.


What are you assuming Satan's motivation to be? Does the grifter reward his victim?
Haven't you heard of the No True Satan fallacy?
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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby Nikki Nyx » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:32 pm

His sin was pride, and his motivation was to exalt himself above God.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:56 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote:His sin was pride, and his motivation was to exalt himself above God.

Which he does by punishing Gods chosen children? The motive complex of the grifter is quite good. Thats why I prefer the notion of hell or damnation simply being that you do not get to "know" God. He turns his back on you (for choices he programmed into you EONS before the Universe even started..... whenever it did. Gods sense of responsibility is spotty at best.)

No. "Logic" of any sort.......... and God.

Doesn't work.

So far................ every truth we know .........has a working logic at its core. that has a certain conclusion about it.
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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby ElectricMonk » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:18 pm

The logical flaw in any religion with an afterlife is the attempt to create an equivalency between something finite and something infinite - which can never work.
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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:23 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:The logical flaw in any religion with an afterlife is the attempt to create an equivalency between something finite and something infinite - which can never work.

How do you know its not working?
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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby gorgeous » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:50 pm

all religions have been distorted and changed..still God and Jesus are real...like Buddha and others..
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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:58 pm

God and Jesus. I just heard another reference to "the Trinity" in heaven...with Jesus the Son sitting at the right hand of God. ................. for some reason, I had the notion that God being Jesus while absolving humanity of its sins was just a temporary transistion phase for humanity's benefit...and that Jesus went back to being God after his resurrection....well, after he ascended after his resurrection. What the Frick is God doing existing as Jesus at the same time? What does Jesus bring to the table that our all known god doesn't have since he began time?

Ha, ha........how come no one talks about the Holy Ghost at all? Is he actually the real deal??????

G: Why did you leave out the Holy Ghost? Why are you distorting and changing the story???????

Why aren't Jesus and the HG "other gods" that God wants us to ignore? Are there other gods in fact, or not?

I mean, sometimes........... it all just doesn't make any sense.
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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby gorgeous » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:16 pm

I never understood about the Holy Ghost ..idk...God didn't write the bible or edit it...men did that ...remember that...there are likely many gods...and we will probably evolve to their high level too one day.....Seth said we will all be teachers to others evolving one day............Jesus demonstrated god like abilities that aliens have done...including putting Whitley Strieber's cat to death and then resurrecting it with an object pressed against it...we likely have those same abilities and will learn to use them too..-----...don't forget the esoteric teachings that the Christ was separate from Jesus.....it teaches Jesus was a highly evolved man who was to have the Christ being incarnate in his body for 3 yrs. only....symbolized by the dove descending to Jesus...only a highly developed physical body could tolerate the Christ energy ..that was Jesus' job , to provide the physical body...also said that Buddha was to pave the way for the Christ teachings.....and there are many Buddhas, some yet to incarnate at the Buddha level....they are currently bodhisattvas....highly evolved teachers..
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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby gorgeous » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:22 pm

bodhisattva | Buddhist ideal | Britannica.com



https://www.britannica.com/topic/bodhisattva


bodhisattva: in Buddhism, one who seeks awakening (bodhi)—hence, an individual on the path to becoming a buddha.
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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:30 pm

"The Christ" is separate from Jebus?.........that kinda sounds like the Holy Ghost sneaking around again.

The Holy Trinity at least has a nice ring to it. More than the Fabulous Four.
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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby gorgeous » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:32 pm

yes , that is the esoteric teaching.....Jesus was different from Jesus Christ..-------Rudolf Steiner--" Even in theology they do not wish to rise beyond the description of the man, Jesus of Nazareth, they do not wish to rise to an understanding of Christ as a super-earthly Being that dwelt in the man, Jesus of Nazareth."
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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:45 pm

Not according to this: which makes more sense. ie: No Fab Four....thats Beatles territory.

All this to say, the difference between Jesus Christ and Christ Jesus is subtle and in most contexts insignificant.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-Chri ... Jesus.html
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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby gorgeous » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:48 pm

don't think so..
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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:01 pm

gorgeous wrote:don't think so..

Your disagreement with the scholarly link is........... what? .......... 'anything?????"
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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby gorgeous » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:17 pm

still wrong...Jesus was different than Jesus Christ...not just words, but actual events...why are they begging for money on that page?
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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:22 pm

Jesus is Jesus Christ. You are referencing Christ Jesus as the counterpoint. Don't even keep your own BS straight. That makes it hard to keep a con going.

...............almost makes one think Matt might be correct.....................................
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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby gorgeous » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:26 pm

nope
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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:28 pm

What actual events differentiate Jesus from Jesus Christ?
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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:31 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Nikki Nyx wrote:His sin was pride, and his motivation was to exalt himself above God.

Which he does by punishing Gods chosen children? The motive complex of the grifter is quite good. Thats why I prefer the notion of hell or damnation simply being that you do not get to "know" God. He turns his back on you (for choices he programmed into you EONS before the Universe even started..... whenever it did. Gods sense of responsibility is spotty at best.)

No. "Logic" of any sort.......... and God.

Doesn't work.

So far................ every truth we know .........has a working logic at its core. that has a certain conclusion about it.

:hmm: All that seems to explain Rump's newfound infatuation with a "god" he didn't know until he found the support of the Televanguardelicals a valuable tool.
.

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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:06 am

gorgeous wrote:.Jesus demonstrated god like abilities that aliens have done...including putting Whitley Strieber's cat to death and then resurrecting it with an object pressed against it....


Where in the Bible does Jesus bring dead cats back to life? :lol:

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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:09 am

The flaw with the Bible is very fundamental

"Jesus died for our sins"

However Jesus isn't dead (supposedly) and Christians still pray to him knowing he is not dead.

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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby Gord » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:54 am

some days.png


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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby gorgeous » Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:21 am

death is not the end for anyone
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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby Poodle » Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:24 am

Nor, apparently, is a punctuation mark.

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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby Cygnus_X1 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:17 pm

A better way of presenting the argument is that if all things are a part of God, and essentially 'are' God because God sustains everything....then surely that applies to Satan too. So God is basically the cosmic Rod Hull and Emu...with a puppet that he pretends isn't really him.
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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby Nikki Nyx » Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:01 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Nikki Nyx wrote:His sin was pride, and his motivation was to exalt himself above God.

Which he does by punishing Gods chosen children? The motive complex of the grifter is quite good.
Biblically, if we turn our backs on God, we're damned. And in Revelations, Satan himself is consigned to the lake of fire at the end.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby Nikki Nyx » Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:20 pm

gorgeous wrote:I never understood about the Holy Ghost ..idk...
Actually, I can explain that one, gorgeous. The Roman Catholic Church cribbed quite a lot of its theology and rituals from pagan religions. The idea was to make it more familiar to ease conversion. The concept of a trinity was already familiar to pagans in many cultures in the form of the Mother Goddess: maiden, mother, and crone...three-in-one.

It was also described in many pantheistic cultures for both gods and goddesses...many were triple gods and triple goddesses. Brighid, for example, in the Gaelic pantheon. I guess the RC Church thought it sounded like a grand and mystic idea, but never really fleshed it out. I mean, I attended catechism through confirmation, and I never got the straight story on the Holy Spirit either.

If you examine the Catholic holy days, they coincide with pagan ones. Christmas was scheduled alongside the Winter Solstice (Yule, Saturnalia, etc.), for example, and All Saints' Day near Halloween (or Samhain). Even today, the method for determining when Easter will be in a given year has pagan written all over it. Begin at the Vernal Equinox, then go forward to the first full moon following it. Easter will be the first Sunday following the first Saturday after that. Like clockwork. Vernal Equinox, full moon, Saturday, Easter Sunday.

Take this year: The Vernal Equinox was March 20th. The subsequent full moon was April 11th. The Saturday following that was April 15th, and Easter Sunday was April 16th. :mrgreen: Which we still celebrate as a fertility ritual...with bunnies and eggs. ;)

The concept of holy communion ("eating" god), altars facing east (to the rising sun), incense (and walking counterclockwise, or "widdershins," 'round the altar, a ritual to banish evil spirits), the idea of death and rebirth...all pagan. In Europe, a good many churches are built on former pagan sacred sites.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby Poodle » Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:32 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
gorgeous wrote:.Jesus demonstrated god like abilities that aliens have done...including putting Whitley Strieber's cat to death and then resurrecting it with an object pressed against it....


Where in the Bible does Jesus bring dead cats back to life? :lol:

Matthew 4: 15 ...
And the Lord said "That's only eight, you lazy bastard - up you get". And it was so.

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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:27 pm

:lol:
.

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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:46 pm

We ALL would benefit from the most complete knowledge of The Bible/Christian Roots, Shakespeare, Greek and Roman Myths, The Romantic Poets...and so forth. Good foundational underpinnings of our language and culture that very few even have an inkling is there.

Ha, ha.......but it takes an effort. A lifetime of effort. And then you die.
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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby gorgeous » Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:49 pm

and come back
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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:58 pm

Hmmmm....depending on what you read, I'm thinking the bible agrees. But who wants to wait for end times/resurrection/ or whatever the deal is?............and then only if you are on your knees?

Just saw "The Cage" the Original Pilot for StarTrek. Chris Pike was so muck better than Kirk. Having an old guy play "Bones' was kinda funny. Actually one of the best episodes: Aliens wanting to breed humans to resurface their destroyed planet. But: "We have reviewed you history and find your species uniquely resistant to being kept in captivity, even if it is pleasant." Ha, ha...........they blew that one. Both notions...but especially that second one. Just make anyone hungry..... then offer food. I wonder if salvation is a kind of hunger? Blood to a vampire??? Praise to the Lord??????????????????
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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby digress » Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:40 pm

this boards database doesn't have enough drive space to discuss the logical flaws in theology.
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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby Phoenix76 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:43 am

Nikki Nyx wrote:I've posted that Original Sin is a Lie, but I thought I'd start a thread for the logical lacunae in the theology. So, here's one to start the ball rolling...

Christianity teaches that Heaven is a place of eternal reward for the faithful who heed the word of God, while Hell is a place of eternal torture for the unfaithful who disobey the word of God. It teaches that God is good, while Satan is evil...that God gave humans free will and doesn't interfere, but Satan actively intervenes to tempt humans to commit sins.

Here's the flaw: If Satan is God's adversary, why would he punish humans for doing his bidding?

There are two ways to resolve the logical flaw:
EITHER Hell is not a place of eternal torture, but is a place of eternal reward for sinners, and the whole "eternal torture" schtick is merely God's propaganda.
OR God has Dissociative Identity Disorder, and the Satan personality is really God, punishing sinners under a different name.


Nikki, the most logical flaw in Christian Theology is simply that god does not exist, other than in the minds of those that grasp for an explanation of what life is all about.

I don't know what life is all about anymore than the rest of us (Gorgeous excepted :lol: ). But putting your belief in some fantasy is not going to help with the answer. There are many examples to negate the theory, and most of us on this forum would be familiar with them.

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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:09 pm

Yes, of course. The purpose of this thread was more for skeptics to debunk the theology, thence to have a handy reference for future religionists. I should have made that clear, but I had a medication SNAFU over the past week that has affected my ability to focus my thoughts. Annoying. :blink:

It's now been resolved, so my posts should be less scattered. :roll:
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:01 pm

Phoenix76 wrote: Nikki, the most logical flaw in Christian Theology is simply that god does not exist, other than in the minds of those that grasp for an explanation of what life is all about.

Thats not a logical flaw. Thats a factual error.
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Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby gorgeous » Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:49 pm

you will be surprised...
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26750
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: The Logical Flaws in Christian Theology

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:50 am

gorgeous wrote:you will be surprised...
My god! Are you finally going to provide some evidence for your comic book claims? :lol:


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