Parmenides, false analogy and change

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sandisk
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Parmenides, false analogy and change

Postby sandisk » Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:53 pm

I'm seeing many folks using works of the philosopher Parmenides and some false analogies to prove that ultimately nothing changes and god/being is everything, despite the universe of duality, plurality and separation and and these hippy jargons...

As If everything that changes and becomes another thing is only "apparently changing" , but actually nothing ever changes, because the true nature of reality is the "big You" "brahman alone" "true self" "Youniverse" "god" "oneness" and blah blah

Their "proof" is using the analogy of gold, that despite gold taking many forms, as 'gold ring' and etc, the form is only apparent, gold takes form of a ring, but the ring is apparent, its nature still gold.

just like in the world, despite someone being fat, ugly, beautiful, skeptic or whatever form he IS, is not totally real, but "apparent, their true nature is "GOD", it is just that the person is revealing itself in a fairy tale illusory personal identity that doesn't really 'exist', deep within he is the "true god" the god that everyone else is

It seems like new agers are improving their fallacies, they seem to have a lot of time on their hands

Is there any way to counter this analogy?
Last edited by sandisk on Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:41 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Parmenides, false analogy and change

Postby Poodle » Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:22 pm

Parmenides' work survives only in fragments - we have no idea at all of the majority of his thinking. The rest is unsupportable navel-gazing. To completely ignore it is the best possible method of countering it.

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Re: Parmenides, false analogy and change

Postby Flash » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:21 am

Yes and Poodle, you can't step in the same river twice, eh? :mrgreen:
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Re: Parmenides, false analogy and change

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:31 am

sandisk wrote:Their "proof" is using the analogy of gold, that despite gold taking many forms, as 'gold ring' and etc, the form is only apparent, gold takes form of a ring, but the ring is apparent, its nature still gold. Is there any way to counter this analogy?

The isotope Gold 195 only has a half life of 186 days.

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Re: Parmenides, false analogy and change

Postby Cadmusteeth » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:57 pm

I tend to think that the problems these philosophies have is the people perpetuating them are too idealistic, self riotous, and egotistic in their respective positions; dispite the good intentions they have going into the market place of ideas.
Even long time users of this site can fall into that pitfall if we're not careful.

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Re: Parmenides, false analogy and change

Postby OlegTheBatty » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:54 pm

Cadmusteeth wrote:I tend to think that the problems these philosophies have is the people perpetuating them are too idealistic, self riotous, and egotistic in their respective positions; dispite the good intentions they have going into the market place of ideas.
Even long time users of this site can fall into that pitfall if we're not careful.


I need to learn to self riot. It sounds like great fun. I will try not to be self righteous about it.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

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Re: Parmenides, false analogy and change

Postby Gord » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:03 pm

I self rioted once. Painful. Pulled a muscle in my central plaza.
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Re: Parmenides, false analogy and change

Postby OlegTheBatty » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:08 pm

You need to warm up properly first. Maybe bonfires.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

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Re: Parmenides, false analogy and change

Postby Cadmusteeth » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:10 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Cadmusteeth wrote:I tend to think that the problems these philosophies have is the people perpetuating them are too idealistic, self riotous, and egotistic in their respective positions; dispite the good intentions they have going into the market place of ideas.
Even long time users of this site can fall into that pitfall if we're not careful.


I need to learn to self riot. It sounds like great fun. I will try not to be self righteous about it.

Noted.

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Re: Parmenides, false analogy and change

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:51 am

OlegTheBatty wrote: I need to learn to self riot. It sounds like great fun.
You could read the Riot Act to yourself, but then you would have to disperse into twelve separate Olegs. :D
Riot Act.jpg
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Re: Parmenides, false analogy and change

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:30 pm

sandisk wrote:Their "proof" is using the analogy of gold, that despite gold taking many forms, as 'gold ring' and etc, the form is only apparent, gold takes form of a ring, but the ring is apparent, its nature still gold.

.....

Is there any way to counter this analogy?


Yes.... head on: "This analogy is totally garbled and makes no sense....even when ungarbled."

The "nature" of a ring is its circularity not its molecular composition. Gold has no "nature." Gold is an element. Stop reading philosophy and poetry for the deep meaning that is found in mindless ambiguity and private allusions. Pick up a physics or chemistry book and actually learn something.

.................yea, verily!
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Re: Parmenides, false analogy and change

Postby OlegTheBatty » Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:15 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
OlegTheBatty wrote: I need to learn to self riot. It sounds like great fun.
You could read the Riot Act to yourself, but then you would have to disperse into twelve separate Olegs. :D Riot Act.jpg


I might do that. I never voted for George I.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero


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