Can someone who believes in personal identity overtime prove it is a possibility?

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eafe
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Can someone who believes in personal identity overtime prove it is a possibility?

Postby eafe » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:42 am

The reason I say possibility is because consciousness is not explained yet.


Videos explaining personal identity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trqDnLNRuSc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17WiQ_tNld4

the body view and the memory view are the 2 presented. Does anyone happen to know a better view than both that doesn't suffer flaws and still show personal identity overtime.

How much change can take place till I am no longer the same? This reminds me of the sorties paradox.

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/sorites-paradox/
To summarize how much grains of sand can I remove no longer a heap.


(I know there is the soul view but i want to ignore talk of soul in this entire conversation. )
What theories in neuroscience could explain personal identity overtime?
.


The star trek transporter. Imagine you are transported to mars. One big flaw is what if the original is not destroyed. You have one person on mars another on earth. Both are the same than diverge right away. Problem adverted. But wait. What if you transport the person 10 years later. You have 10+ and and ten younger version. Does this create a problem? What about if you wait 100 seconds. I know what happens if they are created instantly but what happens if you wait a duration of time and the transporter paradox? Does anyone have a solution that involves the transporter and I am still the same.

Another thing I would like to bring up is

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/per ... 1e7dac16b3

How is personal identity overtime possible, if the Huffington post article is true?

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Re: Can someone who believes in personal identity overtime prove it is a possibility?

Postby TJrandom » Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:19 am

:?: :?: :?:

Overtime - time that is spent working beyond the standard work hours - generally additional hours at the end of a work shift, or additional work on previously scheduled days off. ;)

But, over time, my personal identity does just fine as it only matters in the instant that I consider it, or retroactively in that prior instant of which I recall.

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Re: Can someone who believes in personal identity overtime prove it is a possibility?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:54 am

"OP has a theory and you're wrong if you don't agree with OP."

We need an emoticon for that.
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Re: Can someone who believes in personal identity overtime prove it is a possibility?

Postby OlegTheBatty » Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:34 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:"OP has a theory and you're wrong if you don't agree with OP."

We need an emoticon for that.


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Re: Can someone who believes in personal identity overtime prove it is a possibility?

Postby Cadmusteeth » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:51 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:"OP has a theory and you're wrong if you don't agree with OP."

We need an emoticon for that.
:posting: Not sure about you guys but this one seems appropriate.

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Re: Can someone who believes in personal identity overtime prove it is a possibility?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:02 pm

Cadmusteeth wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:"OP has a theory and you're wrong if you don't agree with OP."

We need an emoticon for that.
:posting: Not sure about you guys but this one seems appropriate.

Image
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Re: Can someone who believes in personal identity overtime prove it is a possibility?

Postby Cadmusteeth » Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:04 pm

No offense to the op but it seems when someone proposes a new topic and someone else who comments disgrees with the op's view, they get deffensive and indignant.
There have been a lot of people like that comming here. It gets very annoying for everyone here. (Though mostly with me I should say, everyone else seems better able to cope than me)

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Re: Can someone who believes in personal identity overtime prove it is a possibility?

Postby Cadmusteeth » Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:07 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Cadmusteeth wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:"OP has a theory and you're wrong if you don't agree with OP."

We need an emoticon for that.
:posting: Not sure about you guys but this one seems appropriate.

Image

"My emote is bigger than yours"
And it's more epic than mine so you win.

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Re: Can someone who believes in personal identity overtime prove it is a possibility?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:34 pm

Cadmusteeth wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Cadmusteeth wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:"OP has a theory and you're wrong if you don't agree with OP."

We need an emoticon for that.
:posting: Not sure about you guys but this one seems appropriate.

Image

"My emote is bigger than yours"
And it's more epic than mine so you win.

Size matters.

Image
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Re: Can someone who believes in personal identity overtime prove it is a possibility?

Postby TJrandom » Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:26 pm

Cadmusteeth wrote:No offense to the op but it seems when someone proposes a new topic and someone else who comments disgrees with the op's view, they get deffensive and indignant.
There have been a lot of people like that comming here. It gets very annoying for everyone here. (Though mostly with me I should say, everyone else seems better able to cope than me)


Am I missing something here? Hasn`t OP only posted once? Or has he adopted another personality and thus also posted under a different username?

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Re: Can someone who believes in personal identity overtime prove it is a possibility?

Postby Cadmusteeth » Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:55 pm

No, you're right.
I was venting. Sorry for the confusion.

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Re: Can someone who believes in personal identity overtime prove it is a possibility?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:10 am

Cadmusteeth wrote:No, you're right. I was venting. Sorry for the confusion.


"Go for it". The non-researched crap the wooists are posting on our little science forum irritates me quite a lot. It's going to get worse when all the idiots posting pro-Trump rubbish jump ship back to the original "woo" they were posting.

We are already discussing this phenomena in the anti-holocaust denial sub-forum. Many leading deniers have recently "changed tunes" so minor holocaust deniers are giving up and going back to posting about UFOs, Bigfoot and so on.
:D

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Re: Can someone who believes in personal identity overtime prove it is a possibility?

Postby TJrandom » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:38 am

Cadmusteeth wrote:No, you're right.
I was venting. Sorry for the confusion.


That is fine... I sometimes think I have truly missed something. Vent on...

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Re: Can someone who believes in personal identity overtime prove it is a possibility?

Postby salomed » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:42 am

eafe wrote:The reason I say possibility is because consciousness is not explained yet.


Videos explaining personal identity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trqDnLNRuSc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17WiQ_tNld4

the body view and the memory view are the 2 presented. Does anyone happen to know a better view than both that doesn't suffer flaws and still show personal identity overtime.

How much change can take place till I am no longer the same? This reminds me of the sorties paradox.

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/sorites-paradox/
To summarize how much grains of sand can I remove no longer a heap.


(I know there is the soul view but i want to ignore talk of soul in this entire conversation. )
What theories in neuroscience could explain personal identity overtime?
.


The star trek transporter. Imagine you are transported to mars. One big flaw is what if the original is not destroyed. You have one person on mars another on earth. Both are the same than diverge right away. Problem adverted. But wait. What if you transport the person 10 years later. You have 10+ and and ten younger version. Does this create a problem? What about if you wait 100 seconds. I know what happens if they are created instantly but what happens if you wait a duration of time and the transporter paradox? Does anyone have a solution that involves the transporter and I am still the same.

Another thing I would like to bring up is

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/per ... 1e7dac16b3

How is personal identity overtime possible, if the Huffington post article is true?


I think you are confusing the philosophical problem of personal identity (Parfit, Nozic...) with the problem of consciousness.
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Re: Can someone who believes in personal identity overtime prove it is a possibility?

Postby Gord » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:12 pm

I think he's referring to "Identity Over Time", such as explained here: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/identity-time/

I think I'll link to these short youtube videos I've linked to before:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TFCMK4i2lo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trqDnLNRuSc&t=78s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17WiQ_tNld4&t=11s

I think the middle video applies to this discussion most particularly.
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Re: Can someone who believes in personal identity overtime prove it is a possibility?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:03 pm

I'd need a real reason to watch those.
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Re: Can someone who believes in personal identity overtime prove it is a possibility?

Postby Cadmusteeth » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:24 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:I'd need a real reason to watch those.

I really see what you did there.

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Re: Can someone who believes in personal identity overtime prove it is a possibility?

Postby Lance Kennedy » Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:24 am

To the best of my knowledge, there is no clear cut definition of, or explanation of, personal identity. I tend to think of it as a pattern of nerve impulses in a particular brain. I also see no reason why there could not be two such patterns that are identical. Unlikely, but not impossible. If so, we have a personal identity doubled.

The Star Trek example is only valid if that kind of teleportation becomes possible, which it is not at the moment. Until it does, there is no conundrum.


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