True Love

God, the FSM, and everything else.
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Re: True Love

Post by TJrandom » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:57 am

Where went love? Oh, to Gord? Whew... I was afraid it might be directed at me. Carry on...

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Re: True Love

Post by Johan » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:01 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
Johan wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:
Johan wrote:...To keep the solution for yourself in the face of others struggling is not Love. So it is really a force called Compassion that sent me to do it. But this Compassion is from God. So in a sense it is from Him to show the way to those that want it. Not to force. Just to show the way. We call it witnessing. We are witnesses rescued from the degrading effects of human life.
Who decided that users of this site are "struggling"?


I wrote many things. But you only focused on that one?

No. I only had a question about that one. Let's try that again: who decided users on this site "want it"?


It works like this. Human beings are born ignorant. And then they grow up and start to see things. And after they saw it they make the decision they want it or not. So somebody needs to show. Only then can others decide they want it or not.

Take slavery for instance. Everybody thought it was a good practice. And then those that know point out the negative side of it and the advantages to let it go. And then the decision was made.

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Re: True Love

Post by TJrandom » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:04 am

Yup, and like slavery keeps coming back from time to time, so too does religion. If only it would go away forever....

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Re: True Love

Post by Johan » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:43 am

Aztexan wrote:
Johan wrote:
Aztexan wrote:I see the fail at Genesis 1:1 and then in every subsequent passage that follows.


Ok. So how do you see it?


Literally. Like it was intended to be read. Like how you people used to interpret it but have now reduced it to a scriptural buffet where you take what you want and ignore the rest. Your bible's only significance is historical because it's followers have taken any credibility it once may have had and turned it into a wiki-type joke book that anyone is free to use for whatever reason.
In other words: I've read the bible and understand what it says. It is full of {!#%@}. You have obviously failed to grasp what it says because you have to twist the infallible words of your infallible god into something that it obviously doesn't say and then come to a forum full of other people who have read that stupid book and try to convince them of something it doesn't say and then feign ignorance and ask for clarification.
Read the {!#%@} bible. Understand what it says. Your god is a sadistic, temperamental, childish {!#%@}. In the image of the men who created him.


You "understand" the Bible?

But it seems you went there and interpreted it yourself and judged God yourself on your interpretation.

Impossible. We can not understand God.

He needs to explain everything.

1Co 2:11  For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 
1Co 2:12  Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 

But ok. You read it. You have some knowledge of what is inside. So when I say something you know it is there or you can go take a look again.

Then you will know that He calls Himself Father. So what I gave you just falls nicely into this category. He as our Father wants to explain His Life that we need to follow Himself. That is what relationship is about. You obviously also saw that there. To Him it is about a Love Relationship. That is vice versa communication on what we need to know and understand.

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Re: True Love

Post by Johan » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:53 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:Why do you spread propaganda about your "God", who drowned millions of innocent babies in "the flood"? Why do you support your God's mass murder?
Johan wrote:So how do you know it was Him?
Matthew Ellard wrote: I have read the Bible. Obviously you didn't bother. :lol:


Genesis 6:9 (11) Now the earth was corrupt in God’s sight and was full of violence. (12) God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways. (13) So God said to Noah, “I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth.

Johan wrote:But according to evidence I gave some quotes out of the Bible. And I elaborated on them. So according to evidence I am the one that read it. And you said I have not. The evidence proof you wrong.
No. It is quite obvious you are yet another Christian nut case who hasn't bothered reading the Bible. We read the Bible to see all the conflicting claims and nonsense. You never made it that far.

Go away



All I see there is that bad actions has bad consequences. And I also saw that Noah was not judged according to those with the violence. So we need to hear that if we are living in violence we should not be surprised when we bear the consequences. And vice versa if we live a good life then we will reap good consequences.

And you are chasing me away again. Judging me on God's actions. Do you really think that is a worthy judgment?

But as I said previously. Judgment is best left to God. But I will give you a clue.

Should you not rather be a wise man and ask me for my Life and the evidence of what I am doing and judge me on that? This is also something God said. Everyone shall be judged by his own actions.

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Re: True Love

Post by Johan » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:56 am

Aztexan wrote:
Johan wrote:
Aztexan wrote:
Johan wrote:
Aztexan wrote:
Johan wrote:
Aztexan wrote:I see the fail at Genesis 1:1 and then in every subsequent passage that follows.


Well you are just saying that you see it. But tell us how do you see it? We also would like to see what you are seeing.


derp


What language is that?


Aramaic


Can you translate for me please?


Demonstrably Enlightened Religious Person


Doesn't seem like the right translation. Maybe somebody else can help you?

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Re: True Love

Post by Johan » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:58 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
Johan wrote:Judgment should best be left for God.

What grate wisdom!


Glad you see it.

[quote="scrmbldggs"
PS Further dodges noted.[/quote]

Who now again?

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Re: True Love / Johan prefers murder.

Post by Johan » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:18 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Johan wrote: And now you reached the end. Judging me according to your fabricate evidence on God. And the punishment also.


Matthew Ellard wrote:You are blaming millions of babies for being "wicked' and are thankful for God murdering them in the flood.


Where do you see that?

Matthew Ellard wrote:Are you claim to be here talking about love.


Yep. Have you noticed something not evidence of that?

Johan wrote: Judgment should best be left for God.



Matthew Ellard wrote:What? A mass murderer who kills innocent people just because they are related?


That is just your judgment based on fabricated facts.

You see this earth is going down again. And with it all will perish again. And God has no hand in it because it will be against your agreement. You and everyone else decided they do not want God as a Father to obey. They want to live their lives as they see fit. And they want to do with the earth as they please. To me it is quite obvious that there is no God partaking in what is happening here.

Or maybe you see a God we can blame for the coming end of the earth?

So the consequences of human beings in their pride and greed are going to hit them again.

This time it seems it is for good if God does not intervene again like in the days of Noah. But obviously it will benefit only those like Noah.

But luckily for you I am here now to put you in Noah's category. So it seems you should not worry so much about the past but about your future. When you meet God in person you can really judge for yourself who He is. That will be much more reliable don't you think?

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Re: True Love

Post by Johan » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:51 pm

Aztexan wrote:C'mon Matthew, you know god killed those babies because he loved them. And he promised to never do it again so there is that.
True love.


You are speaking a lot on the Love of God. But you do not really know what it is.

Actually God said that we should not even kill our enemies but love them. And He showed it too. When He was killed on the Cross He forgave them.

Aztexan wrote:The abusive husband really loves his wife. He just has to show her how much every once in a while so she can truly appreciate it. For her own good.
What a swell god.


Yep. You really think you know. Actually God said that we should forgive everything we think is wrongly done to us. Even if we are beaten we should turn the other cheek. If we are robbed we should give more. And if we are forced to do something we should do more.

But let me show you in the right direction. True Love is to share. True Love shares the best there is. You see the best God can share is Himself. That is why He calls Himself Father. In Fatherhood a Father gives to His Children His whole being. Any species show us that. The small of the mouse has everything its father has. And the small of the cat is a kitten. And the small has the ability to grow up to become a parent to. That means that to be a Child of God makes us a God too. And to be a God means we have the ability to grow up and become One too.

This is the best God has to give. And He gives it to those that understand and accept.

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Re: True Love

Post by Johan » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:54 pm

TJrandom wrote:Where went love? Oh, to Gord? Whew... I was afraid it might be directed at me. Carry on...


You afraid of Love?

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Re: True Love

Post by Johan » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:57 pm

TJrandom wrote:Yup, and like slavery keeps coming back from time to time, so too does religion. If only it would go away forever....


I hope so too. But there is only one way. To reveal it for what it is. And then it will disappear. So we need to reveal the last of slavery and luckily that will also be the last of religion.

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Re: True Love

Post by scrmbldggs » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:28 pm

:hmm: I'm done feeding that apologist you-know-what. :pardon:
.
Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: True Love / Johan prefers murder.

Post by Poodle » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:24 pm

Johan wrote:... That is just your judgment based on fabricated facts ...

Pots ... kettles ... kettles ... pots ...
Everything - absolutely, unequivocably, everything you've said, Johan - is your judgement based upon fabricated literature. That is unarguable (no - it really is) and is the reason you are wasting your time here. You are, of course, fully entitled to believe any particular mythology you prefer but, until you can show your particular mythology to be anything but that (which you have signally failed to do so far and are doomed to signally fail to do so in the future) you're wasting your time. Your preference for adult fantasy is your own affair. Personally, I'll go with Lord of the Rings. It's better written.

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Re: True Love / Johan prefers murder.

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:47 pm

Poodle wrote:
Johan wrote:... That is just your judgment based on fabricated facts ...

Pots ... kettles ... kettles ... pots ...
Everything - absolutely, unequivocably, everything you've said, Johan - is your judgement based upon fabricated literature. That is unarguable (no - it really is) and is the reason you are wasting your time here. You are, of course, fully entitled to believe any particular mythology you prefer but, until you can show your particular mythology to be anything but that (which you have signally failed to do so far and are doomed to signally fail to do so in the future) you're wasting your time. Your preference for adult fantasy is your own affair. Personally, I'll go with Lord of the Rings. It's better written.

LOTR??????.......That doesn't make any sense at all......................................... unless.................. you have found a ring that makes you invisible? Or less sensical, are on a quest to find one????

Johan..... have you found a ring?
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Re: True Love

Post by Lance Kennedy » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:59 pm

Joshua chapter 6, verses 20, 21
Shows the total destruction of Jericho, including everyone there, according to Gods instructions. Not love.

It was kind of extreme, since the text says they devoted the city to God and destroyed with the sword every living thing inside.

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Re: True Love

Post by Aztexan » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:37 pm

Johan, Johan, Johan, yes I've read the bible. I understand it the way they (and you) want me to. As the literal word of god. The horrors and atrocities committed by man are awful enough. I get that. We're animals. But if your god is real, he's evil, incompetent, and a real dick.
It was through education, asking questions and not being satisfied with the answers they were giving that led me where I am now. Your god is only a big, bad, scary dude worthy of fear and respect if you're a child. Or the intellectual equivalent. So, yes, the bible did spark something in me that made me thirsty for more knowledge. But even as a kid, I could poke holes in it. As a teenager, I never thought about it. As an adult, it's a {!#%@} joke book as used by today's modern "christians". I see you pick and choose, interpret and reinterpret, update and modify the so-called infallible word. Christians base much of their bigotry and law-making on that book yet claim that we just can't know the mind of god. When it suits you, mind you. So I sit in judgement of god and he is not worthy of my time. He is just another fictional character created by mankind.
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Re: True Love

Post by TJrandom » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:06 pm

Johan wrote:
TJrandom wrote:Where went love? Oh, to Gord? Whew... I was afraid it might be directed at me. Carry on...


You afraid of Love?


I know true love, and it has nothing to do with the bigotry, misogyny, hate and murder supported by your god.

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Re: True Love

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:09 pm

Ha, ha.............."True Love" has a lot of overlap with "Blind Love" where a person cannot see the faults of the loved one.

100% application.
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Re: True Love

Post by OlegTheBatty » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:15 pm

Aztexan wrote:Johan, Johan, Johan, yes I've read the bible. I understand it the way they (and you) want me to. As the literal word of god. The horrors and atrocities committed by man are awful enough. I get that. We're animals. But if your god is real, he's evil, incompetent, and a real dick.
It was through education, asking questions and not being satisfied with the answers they were giving that led me where I am now. Your god is only a big, bad, scary dude worthy of fear and respect if you're a child. Or the intellectual equivalent. So, yes, the bible did spark something in me that made me thirsty for more knowledge. But even as a kid, I could poke holes in it. As a teenager, I never thought about it. As an adult, it's a {!#%@} joke book as used by today's modern "christians". I see you pick and choose, interpret and reinterpret, update and modify the so-called infallible word. Christians base much of their bigotry and law-making on that book yet claim that we just can't know the mind of god. When it suits you, mind you. So I sit in judgement of god and he is not worthy of my time. He is just another fictional character created by mankind.



I love you, Az :soppy:
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Re: True Love

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:00 pm

Aztexan wrote:Johan, Johan, Johan, yes I've read the bible. I understand it the way they (and you) want me to. As the literal word of god. The horrors and atrocities committed by man are awful enough. I get that. We're animals. But if your god is real, he's evil, incompetent, and a real dick.

Whats the current thinking in the world of absolutes? ==>the Epicurean Paradox???

Do the literalists simply quote the good parts and then immediately raise the God is a Mystery babble when the direct contradictions are placed side by side??? I've had several close conversation about this, but not this very narrow point.
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Re: True Love / Johan prefers murder.

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:06 pm

Johan wrote:You see this earth is going down again. And with it all will perish again.
No. That is your crap religion telling you that. It also told you Jesus is coming back and he never came back.
end is nigh.jpg

Johan wrote:And God has no hand in it because it will be against your agreement. You and everyone else decided they do not want God as a Father to obey.
Firstly there is no God. Secondly the world is not going down. You have simply become delusional.

Johan wrote:Or maybe you see a God we can blame for the coming end of the earth?
There is no God and the world is not coming to an end. You have become delusional.

Johan wrote:But obviously it will benefit only those like Noah.
Noah is a fictional character in a book of bronze age fairy tales called the Bible.
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Re: True Love

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:13 pm

Johan wrote: Actually God said that we should not even kill our enemies but love them.
Bull-shit

Samuel 15:2–3 : "Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘I have noted what Amalek did to Israel din opposing them on the way when they came up out of Egypt. 3 Now go and strike Amalek and edevote to destruction1 all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’ ”

Your fantasy god is a mass murderer who continuously kills innocent children.

It is quite clear that you have never read the Bible. :lol:

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Re: True Love

Post by Aztexan » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:45 am

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Aztexan wrote:Johan, Johan, Johan, yes I've read the bible. I understand it the way they (and you) want me to. As the literal word of god. The horrors and atrocities committed by man are awful enough. I get that. We're animals. But if your god is real, he's evil, incompetent, and a real dick.
It was through education, asking questions and not being satisfied with the answers they were giving that led me where I am now. Your god is only a big, bad, scary dude worthy of fear and respect if you're a child. Or the intellectual equivalent. So, yes, the bible did spark something in me that made me thirsty for more knowledge. But even as a kid, I could poke holes in it. As a teenager, I never thought about it. As an adult, it's a {!#%@} joke book as used by today's modern "christians". I see you pick and choose, interpret and reinterpret, update and modify the so-called infallible word. Christians base much of their bigotry and law-making on that book yet claim that we just can't know the mind of god. When it suits you, mind you. So I sit in judgement of god and he is not worthy of my time. He is just another fictional character created by mankind.



I love you, Az :soppy:


Aww.
Wait. Like a person is supposed to love another person or the way god loves the children of sinners?
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Re: True Love

Post by OlegTheBatty » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:23 pm

Aztexan wrote:
OlegTheBatty wrote:
Aztexan wrote:Johan, Johan, Johan, yes I've read the bible. I understand it the way they (and you) want me to. As the literal word of god. The horrors and atrocities committed by man are awful enough. I get that. We're animals. But if your god is real, he's evil, incompetent, and a real dick.
It was through education, asking questions and not being satisfied with the answers they were giving that led me where I am now. Your god is only a big, bad, scary dude worthy of fear and respect if you're a child. Or the intellectual equivalent. So, yes, the bible did spark something in me that made me thirsty for more knowledge. But even as a kid, I could poke holes in it. As a teenager, I never thought about it. As an adult, it's a {!#%@} joke book as used by today's modern "christians". I see you pick and choose, interpret and reinterpret, update and modify the so-called infallible word. Christians base much of their bigotry and law-making on that book yet claim that we just can't know the mind of god. When it suits you, mind you. So I sit in judgement of god and he is not worthy of my time. He is just another fictional character created by mankind.



I love you, Az :soppy:


Aww.
Wait. Like a person is supposed to love another person or the way god loves the children of sinners?



See this --> :soppy: <-- little gadget? There are none of those in the bibble!
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Re: True Love

Post by Aztexan » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:10 pm

You know I love you too, bro
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Re: True Love

Post by Gord » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:15 am

Johan wrote:
Gord wrote:
Johan wrote:
Gord wrote:
Johan wrote:
Gord wrote:
Johan wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:Dodges noted.

Who dodged now?

You. It was definitely you.

You seems excited. Good. Feelings can be shared. So share it. How did it happen?

Your estimation of my emotional state is inaccurate. I feel bored. I get bored when people make claims but can't support them.

No problem. Let us get to it. Which claim do you want evidence for?

Let's start with the topic title: True love.

No problem I truly Love you.

No you don't.
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Re: True Love

Post by Johan » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:37 am

Gord wrote:
Johan wrote:
Gord wrote:
Johan wrote:
Gord wrote:
Johan wrote:
Gord wrote:
Johan wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:Dodges noted.

Who dodged now?

You. It was definitely you.

You seems excited. Good. Feelings can be shared. So share it. How did it happen?

Your estimation of my emotional state is inaccurate. I feel bored. I get bored when people make claims but can't support them.

No problem. Let us get to it. Which claim do you want evidence for?

Let's start with the topic title: True love.

No problem I truly Love you.

No you don't.


Well, should you not have asked for evidence before judging me as a "liar"?

And secondly. Why do I not Love you?

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Re: True Love

Post by Johan » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:39 am

Aztexan wrote:You know I love you too, bro


Nope.

I know you should but you will have to proof it. Where is your evidence?

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Re: True Love

Post by Johan » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:44 am

scrmbldggs wrote::hmm: I'm done feeding that apologist you-know-what. :pardon:


Seems you want to leave?

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Re: True Love / Johan prefers murder.

Post by Johan » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:53 am

Johan wrote:... That is just your judgment based on fabricated facts ...


Poodle wrote:Pots ... kettles ... kettles ... pots ...
Everything - absolutely, unequivocably, everything you've said, Johan - is your judgement based upon fabricated literature.


Not really. I based it on evidence.

Poodle wrote:That is unarguable (no - it really is) and is the reason you are wasting your time here. You are, of course, fully entitled to believe any particular mythology you prefer but, until you can show your particular mythology to be anything but that (which you have signally failed to do so far and are doomed to signally fail to do so in the future) you're wasting your time.


Ok. In my "mythology" I have a Father. Father according to Him means the Same. The child of a mouse you call a mouse. The child of a human being you call a human being. And the child of God you call a God. So me being a God is not "mythology" because I really exist. You are speaking to me.

Poodle wrote:Your preference for adult fantasy is your own affair. Personally, I'll go with Lord of the Rings. It's better written.


To call it fantasy means it has to be only in my mind. That means there is no evidence for it. That you should verify first.

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Re: True Love / Johan prefers murder.

Post by TJrandom » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:26 am

Johan wrote: ... To call it fantasy means it has to be only in my mind. That means there is no evidence for it. That you should verify first.


Your fantasy is well developed – in books, movies, organizations, social movements, ceremony, etc. – so not just in your mind. Not that any of this makes it less of a fantasy… If you don`t believe it to be a fantasy, it is up to you to provide acceptable evidence.

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Re: True Love / Johan prefers murder.

Post by Johan » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:28 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Poodle wrote:
Johan wrote:... That is just your judgment based on fabricated facts ...

Pots ... kettles ... kettles ... pots ...
Everything - absolutely, unequivocably, everything you've said, Johan - is your judgement based upon fabricated literature. That is unarguable (no - it really is) and is the reason you are wasting your time here. You are, of course, fully entitled to believe any particular mythology you prefer but, until you can show your particular mythology to be anything but that (which you have signally failed to do so far and are doomed to signally fail to do so in the future) you're wasting your time. Your preference for adult fantasy is your own affair. Personally, I'll go with Lord of the Rings. It's better written.

LOTR??????.......That doesn't make any sense at all......................................... unless.................. you have found a ring that makes you invisible? Or less sensical, are on a quest to find one????

Johan..... have you found a ring?


Nope. Remember that is just a human story. So that was the best the humans could come up with. As my story is about . . . . .God . . .obviously I found something much better. Something humans didn't have the ability to come up with . . . . .because . . .it is just Too Good.

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Re: True Love

Post by Johan » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:48 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:Joshua chapter 6, verses 20, 21
Shows the total destruction of Jericho, including everyone there, according to Gods instructions. Not love.

It was kind of extreme, since the text says they devoted the city to God and destroyed with the sword every living thing inside.


You know. There is actually two sides to that story. Don't you think it was good of the Father of the slaves to provide them with their own country?

Then something else: His means.

That is where the problem actually is. Because it seems very contradictory with what we know today.

Jas 4:1  From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? 
Jas 4:2  Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. 
Jas 4:3  Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. 

So if you think carefully you will notice that God just used the acceptable method everyone used at those times. That was who the humans were at that stage. Vicious. Everything of compassion and the Love we know these days just didn't exist. That was introduced by Jesus in the year 0.

Imagine they would have tried it with our methods. Debating. And asking those people if they can debate about the situation that they are without a country. Just not imaginable to them. So over time the humans has became a more "compassionate race". And God can use more "kind/Godly" methods to change what is not right.

God only does something when we are ready for it. For instance slavery were stopped when the human race has reached enough love for fellow humans after Jesus spoke about it in the year 0. We do the same. Some things we only teach our children when they are ready for it. Otherwise it is force. That is why most parents are not as good as God is. They force children to do things when they are not ready because of their own selfish desires. They are not prepared to live with their children in their wrong desires and actions till they are ready to change. After having discovered for themselves that they are actually wrong. So in their impatience and selfishness they force changes to what they know is right. God does not do it that way.

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Re: True Love

Post by Johan » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:29 am

Aztexan wrote:Johan, Johan, Johan, yes I've read the bible. I understand it the way they (and you) want me to. As the literal word of god. The horrors and atrocities committed by man are awful enough. I get that. We're animals.


You really believe there is something wrong with the humans?

Aztexan wrote:But if your god is real, he's evil, incompetent, and a real dick.


It is easy to say things. But you have to provide evidence.

Aztexan wrote:It was through education, asking questions and not being satisfied with the answers they were giving that led me where I am now.


That only means you asked the wrong persons.

Aztexan wrote:Your god is only a big, bad, scary dude worthy of fear and respect if you're a child. Or the intellectual equivalent.


Well. It is easy to say things but I have to proof my "theories" and then they are fact. So the same goes for you.

Aztexan wrote: So, yes, the bible did spark something in me that made me thirsty for more knowledge. But even as a kid, I could poke holes in it.


No problem. Poke them.

Aztexan wrote:As a teenager, I never thought about it.


I know. I was one too. Too much interesting and important choices to be made then.

Aztexan wrote:As an adult, it's a {!#%@} joke book as used by today's modern "christians".


Yep. I agree. But remember your basis is "today's Christians".

Aztexan wrote: I see you pick and choose, interpret and reinterpret, update and modify the so-called infallible word.


Yep. I see it too.

Aztexan wrote:Christians base much of their bigotry and law-making on that book yet claim that we just can't know the mind of god.


Yep. They are trying hard and keep on failing.

Aztexan wrote: When it suits you, mind you. So I sit in judgement of god and he is not worthy of my time. He is just another fictional character created by mankind.


No problem. But you are welcome to change from Him to me. As I am His Child I am One too. Because if you are the child of a mouse you are a mouse.

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Re: True Love / Johan prefers murder.

Post by Poodle » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:30 am

Johan wrote:Not really. I based it on evidence.

No, Johan, you did not. Before you set forth upon your "my evidence is as good as your evidence" diatribe, you really should find out what the word 'evidence' means in this context (this context being this forum and its stated purpose).

Johan wrote:Ok. In my "mythology" I have a Father. Father according to Him means the Same. The child of a mouse you call a mouse. The child of a human being you call a human being. And the child of God you call a God. So me being a God is not "mythology" because I really exist. You are speaking to me.

A fine example of the abuses of argument. Of the numerous sticks I could poke into that, non sequitur would probably be the one you have a chance of understanding

Johan wrote:To call it fantasy means it has to be only in my mind. That means there is no evidence for it. That you should verify first.

The perpetual cry of the terminally ignorant. Johan, I have a large number of years under my belt and in not a single one of those years has anyone managed to provide me with evidence of the kind you appear to be claiming. Read this carefully ... I do not have to provide a shred of evidence to counter any of your claims because they are YOUR claims. However, in that large number of years (and you'll have to take this on faith) I have (out of intellectual interest only) looked for evidence for many fantasies, including those espoused by religious zealots. I have found none. Zero. Zilch. If you have evidence, get it up here where we can all see it but, before you do that, do read up on what the word 'evidence' means on a forum dedicated to scientific skepticism. Most adventurers don't do that and very quickly make complete fools of themselves.

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Re: True Love

Post by Johan » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:33 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Ha, ha.............."True Love" has a lot of overlap with "Blind Love" where a person cannot see the faults of the loved one.

100% application.


Actually True Love as seen from God's point of view is rather taking the faults into consideration.

Mat 5:43  Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 
Mat 5:44  But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 
Mat 5:45  That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 
Mat 5:46  For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 
Mat 5:47  And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 
Mat 5:48  Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. 

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Re: True Love

Post by Johan » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:34 am

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Aztexan wrote:Johan, Johan, Johan, yes I've read the bible. I understand it the way they (and you) want me to. As the literal word of god. The horrors and atrocities committed by man are awful enough. I get that. We're animals. But if your god is real, he's evil, incompetent, and a real dick.
It was through education, asking questions and not being satisfied with the answers they were giving that led me where I am now. Your god is only a big, bad, scary dude worthy of fear and respect if you're a child. Or the intellectual equivalent. So, yes, the bible did spark something in me that made me thirsty for more knowledge. But even as a kid, I could poke holes in it. As a teenager, I never thought about it. As an adult, it's a {!#%@} joke book as used by today's modern "christians". I see you pick and choose, interpret and reinterpret, update and modify the so-called infallible word. Christians base much of their bigotry and law-making on that book yet claim that we just can't know the mind of god. When it suits you, mind you. So I sit in judgement of god and he is not worthy of my time. He is just another fictional character created by mankind.



I love you, Az :soppy:


Good. Me too.

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Re: True Love

Post by Johan » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:46 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Aztexan wrote:Johan, Johan, Johan, yes I've read the bible. I understand it the way they (and you) want me to. As the literal word of god. The horrors and atrocities committed by man are awful enough. I get that. We're animals. But if your god is real, he's evil, incompetent, and a real dick.

Whats the current thinking in the world of absolutes? ==>the Epicurean Paradox???

Do the literalists simply quote the good parts and then immediately raise the God is a Mystery babble when the direct contradictions are placed side by side??? I've had several close conversation about this, but not this very narrow point.


Basically God is able and willing. And waiting on us. The earth is created for us and belongs to us.

Gen 1:26  And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 
Gen 1:27  So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 
Gen 1:28  And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. 

We have to be willing to. Any other way is forcing and not Love.

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Re: True Love / Johan prefers murder.

Post by Johan » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:15 am

Johan wrote:You see this earth is going down again. And with it all will perish again.


Matthew Ellard wrote:No. That is your crap religion telling you that.


Nope. I see it. The humans are destroying the earth in their "cleverness and greed". It has been like that from the beginning. But it is escalating. And they think they can reverse it. And they are too blind to see that it is not possible.

Matthew Ellard wrote: It also told you Jesus is coming back and he never came back.
end is nigh.jpg


Nope. He is back.

Johan wrote:And God has no hand in it because it will be against your agreement. You and everyone else decided they do not want God as a Father to obey.


Matthew Ellard wrote: Firstly there is no God. Secondly the world is not going down. You have simply become delusional.


You sure? You think the earth is thriving?

Johan wrote:Or maybe you see a God we can blame for the coming end of the earth?


Matthew Ellard wrote:
There is no God and the world is not coming to an end. You have become delusional.


Ok. No use to argue something you do not see. I will have to open your eyes first.

Johan wrote:But obviously it will benefit only those like Noah.


Matthew Ellard wrote: Noah is a fictional character in a book of bronze age fairy tales called the Bible.


Nope. There is many today. Those who Love God. His Children. Although He Loves everyone only some is returning the Love. You see. Noah believed God and built a long time. And everybody looked on. And they laughed and ridiculed because water falling from heaven in "buckets fulls" were unheard off. God always helps those that turn to Him for help.

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Re: True Love / Johan prefers murder.

Post by Johan » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:24 am

Johan wrote:Not really. I based it on evidence.


Poodle wrote:No, Johan, you did not. Before you set forth upon your "my evidence is as good as your evidence" diatribe, you really should find out what the word 'evidence' means in this context (this context being this forum and its stated purpose).


Yep. I would not use that one. I would use real evidence.

Johan wrote:Ok. In my "mythology" I have a Father. Father according to Him means the Same. The child of a mouse you call a mouse. The child of a human being you call a human being. And the child of God you call a God. So me being a God is not "mythology" because I really exist. You are speaking to me.


Poodle wrote:A fine example of the abuses of argument. Of the numerous sticks I could poke into that, non sequitur would probably be the one you have a chance of understanding


Not really. As that is True Love from God. Not to stop the tornado but to give me everything He is. And then I stop the tornado. True Love is not to be a superman and do all these wonderful things. But True Love is to allow your Children to do it.

You see. God did not decide to keep all His Godliness for Himself in selfishness or inability. He Loves His Children and said He is a Father meaning He gives us everything He is. Making us exactly the same. That He does by a birth from Him. So I am Born a second time. This time from God. That makes me one too. And the whole principle is Love. Not to keep what God is for Himself but to give it.

For me to became a God it meant first of all to have died as a human being. That means that I have no life of humans beings anymore. So there should be evidence of that. And secondly I should now live the Life of God. And there should be evidence of that too.

So I give you my death:

My death from marriage and children.

http://johanabrahams.pnyhost.com/My%20w ... etters.htm

My death from work and earning money.

http://johanabrahams.pnyhost.com/My%20workplace.html

My death from my race and leaders.

http://johanabrahams.pnyhost.com/A%20pa ... answer.htm

http://johanabrahams.pnyhost.com/Robertson.htm



And I give you only some of my New Life. Because this is too much to be able to take in, in one go.

https://web.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... 058&type=3


Johan wrote:To call it fantasy means it has to be only in my mind. That means there is no evidence for it. That you should verify first.


So I gave evidence that I am actually living this "fantasy". That makes it reality.

Poodle wrote:The perpetual cry of the terminally ignorant. Johan, I have a large number of years under my belt and in not a single one of those years has anyone managed to provide me with evidence of the kind you appear to be claiming. Read this carefully ...


You just missed it. It was there all the time. We as Christians know that we are born of God. That makes us Gods too.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/t ... orn-again/

Poodle wrote: I do not have to provide a shred of evidence to counter any of your claims because they are YOUR claims. However, in that large number of years (and you'll have to take this on faith) I have (out of intellectual interest only) looked for evidence for many fantasies, including those espoused by religious zealots. I have found none. Zero. Zilch.


Yep. You are right. It is first of all my obligation.

Poodle wrote: If you have evidence, get it up here where we can all see it but, before you do that, do read up on what the word 'evidence' means on a forum dedicated to scientific skepticism. Most adventurers don't do that and very quickly make complete fools of themselves.


Ok. I gave some. There are still lots. But this is a big puzzle and we need to fit the pieces in to see the picture.

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