Science and religion.

God, the FSM, and everything else.
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Lance Kennedy
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Science and religion.

Postby Lance Kennedy » Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:27 am

From Richard Dawkins.

Sometimes a religious person tells us that science is just another religion. Dawkins says the appropriate reply is : "If that is the case, we demand equal time in all religious education classes! "

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Re: Science and religion.

Postby Cadmusteeth » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:37 am

:good:

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Re: Science and religion.

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:11 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:Dawkins says the appropriate reply is : "If that is the case, we demand equal time in all religious education classes! "
Lovely. That is a good spoiler come-back, for next time Gorgeous says "Science is just another religion".

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Re: Science and religion.

Postby Lance Kennedy » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:18 pm

Richard Dawkins, in the same book, suggests a movement called "atheists for Jesus " in which the ethics preached by Jesus are espoused and celebrated by atheists, while the superstition is quietly rejected. He suggests that, if Jesus could be reborn, he would be appalled at the evil that the church has done in his name.

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Re: Science and religion.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:36 pm

Luke 14:25-27
Decide if You Can Follow Me

25 Many people were traveling with Jesus. He said to them, 26 “If you come to me but will not leave your family, you cannot be my follower. You must love me more than your father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and sisters—even more than your own life! 27 Whoever will not carry the cross that is given to them when they follow me cannot be my follower.

Every religion has a good dose of crap somewhere. This isn't the only anti-human thing Jesus said.
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Re: Science and religion.

Postby Lance Kennedy » Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:38 pm

Agreed, Bobbo. Jesus said a lot of silly stuff. But the big difference in his time was his rejection of the evil Yahweh. The Old Testament is full of his evil deeds. Kill the enemy and rape his women. Lots of times. The big change with Jesus was to go with Yahweh model II, the good one.

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Re: Science and religion.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:16 am

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness."

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.” (Matthew 5:17)

Christ like his daddy is just a good book thumping whacko.
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Re: Science and religion.

Postby Lance Kennedy » Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:19 pm

You are a bit harsh, Bobbo. Jesus was a man of his time, and the teachings of the Jewish people of his time influenced him. It would be weird if it were otherwise. But on top of that, he was a radical, and taught a lot of good stuff as well. Love, forgiveness, helping others, compassion etc.

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Re: Science and religion.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:30 pm

Lance..................what did Jebus "REQUIRE!"====>ON PAIN OF ETERNAL DAMNATION.

Stop being stupid. Don't let the sugar coating fool you regarding what is underneath. <====Much better. Save the stupid comment for those who are saved.
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Re: Science and religion.

Postby Lance Kennedy » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:34 pm

All is relative, Bobbo. I am not claiming perfection. Just something a bit better than what went before.

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Re: Science and religion.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:35 am

.....sure. But its worse than it should be. aka: not worthy of any praise at all. HISTORY..........is BEHIND US. Look for the future: science and humanism based. Not ignorance and superstition as you parse the best from while ignoring its entire basis.

Ha, ha..............I'm back to: Don't be Stupid. Amazing that gut first reaction. So accurate.
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Re: Science and religion.

Postby Phoenix76 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:38 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:Agreed, Bobbo. Jesus said a lot of silly stuff. But the big difference in his time was his rejection of the evil Yahweh. The Old Testament is full of his evil deeds. Kill the enemy and rape his women. Lots of times. The big change with Jesus was to go with Yahweh model II, the good one.


Lance, this is all presuming there ever was a jesus. Roman history of the time doesn't support the myth of jesus. The fairy tale bible, mostly written well after his supposed time on earth, tells us things about this mythical man, but it is hearsay written up to 300 years after his supposed death. the writing of the bible didn't start until at least 30 years after death.

And as for the old testament, quite a different record. As you suggest, an eye for an eye. the alleged jesus was supposedly quite a different person - all kind and loving etc. If this savior is supposed to be all powerful and loving, how come there is so much misery in the world? Always has been, and no doubt, always will be. Perhaps earth is really the purgatory spoken of by the catholic faith, "A place where some poor souls must suffer for a time until they go to heaven". Give me a bloody break.

Lance Kennedy wrote:You are a bit harsh, Bobbo. Jesus was a man of his time, and the teachings of the Jewish people of his time influenced him. It would be weird if it were otherwise. But on top of that, he was a radical, and taught a lot of good stuff as well. Love, forgiveness, helping others, compassion etc.


Is Bobbo harsh Lance? You seem to presume that jesus was a man of his time, I see no real evidence. And as for teaching all that good stuff, well refer to what I wrote above. Actually Lance, your last sentence really reflects upon how human society should be. If the world could live up to those standards, then it would be a far better place than it is. These things may have been written in the bible, but did this alleged jesus actually say them? In fact was there an alleged jesus? Very much doubt it in the sense as portrayed by the bible.

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Re: Science and religion.

Postby Lance Kennedy » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:55 am

It really does not matter whether Jesus existed or not. The religion ascribed to him came into being, whether due to the Jesus man or to some other dude. The important thing is that a step was taken towards a better way for people to deal with each other. It certainly was not the final step, and Christians over the last 2,000 years have done some extremely atrocious things.

I tend to think that the next big step is under way today, and that is towards a true secular and humanitarian society. Major advances have already happened over the time since the rise of modern science. (Say the last 500 years.) A big driver for this was the invention of movable type, meaning that communication made a giant leap forward. Today, another giant leap is the internet, and the massive improvement in communications. This forum is an example, where people from many different countries can talk to each other and develop a better understanding.

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Re: Science and religion.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:01 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:It really does not matter whether Jesus existed or not.

Ha, ha. Except that some people would "want to" kill you for even saying that. if there is no Jesus, how can you be saved?.....etc.

so yeah.......if your brain is mush, Jesus doesn't matter.

Is religion declining in strength these days as Science doubles the knowledge base every 15 years? Can Science save us before Religion Destroys us? The Drake Equation?
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Re: Science and religion.

Postby Aztexan » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:05 am

The only logical step we can take is human sacrifice to appease the god of science.
{!#%@} trump!

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Re: Science and religion.

Postby Phoenix76 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:48 am

Bobbo said:

Is religion declining in strength these days as Science doubles the knowledge base every 15 years? Can Science save us before Religion Destroys us? The Drake Equation?


I believe that religion is declining, at least in the western world. And perhaps the more terrorism we see, the more people will look elsewhere for an explanation. No all-loving and compassionate god hereabouts. We'd all better be rooting for Science.


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