A Layman's Guide to the Universe

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Cadmusteeth
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A Layman's Guide to the Universe

Postby Cadmusteeth » Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:27 pm

Hey there.
For some time now (since last month) Ive been researching a philosophy by experimental physicist Sean Carroll, and so far, I tend to agree with it.
It's a variant of naturalism he calls poetic naturalism and I wanted to get some fresh insight on it from others.

(I'm still doing research into it; so if you'd like me to post what I've found out so far, I can.)

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Re: A Layman's Guide to the Universe

Postby Gord » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:48 am

Image

That's about all I know for sure.
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Re: A Layman's Guide to the Universe

Postby Cadmusteeth » Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:35 am

Here is a link to a website devoted to the subject: https://www.preposterousuniverse.com/poetic-naturalism/
Just a heads up, it's long.

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Re: A Layman's Guide to the Universe

Postby Nobrot » Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:53 am

Cadmusteeth wrote:Here is a link to a website devoted to the subject: https://www.preposterousuniverse.com/poetic-naturalism/
Just a heads up, it's long.

I like this one: https://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2010/09/29/seriously-the-laws-underlying-the-physics-of-everyday-life-really-are-completely-understood/

Well, that just about sums it up for god.

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Re: A Layman's Guide to the Universe

Postby Cadmusteeth » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:33 pm

I appologise in advance for being preachy:
I think some of the biggist takeaways from this is, first off, realizing the limits of science, reason and logic. They're still very important and useful, within their appropriate context. You can't really build a value system based solely on those principles.
Society at large is too emotional and diverse in views to decide things like that.

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Re: A Layman's Guide to the Universe

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:38 pm

Society doesn't decide anything. Individuals do.

Individuals realize the universe only by application of science, reason, and logic. Such realizations are filtered and mixed by human emotions which is what humans have to realize before the truth of the universe can be engaged.

Simple.
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Re: A Layman's Guide to the Universe

Postby Cadmusteeth » Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:48 pm

Not really, you have to train to put aside your emotions and biases. Adopt impartiallity and not get too attratched your beliefs.
That's one of the least intuitive things individuals are capable of doing.

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Re: A Layman's Guide to the Universe

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:02 pm

Cad: thats what I said...... aka..... the opposite of what you said.
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Re: A Layman's Guide to the Universe

Postby Cadmusteeth » Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:16 pm

I said you can't solely rely on science and logic. What I was trying to get at is that values are subjective and what you find logical may no be what the next person thinks it should be or is.

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Re: A Layman's Guide to the Universe

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:26 pm

Notice you drop science from your last sentence/conclusion. Your subconscious may be smarter than awake you.
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Re: A Layman's Guide to the Universe

Postby Cadmusteeth » Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:44 pm

Could you please stop belittling my intelligence. I may be impulsive and hotheaded but I damn well know when I'm being looked down upon.
I respect you, so show some courtesy because, belive it or not, Im finding out what the shortcomings are in my argument.
Is it not logical to show mutual respect when having cival discourse?

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Re: A Layman's Guide to the Universe

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:54 pm

Cadmusteeth wrote:Society at large is too emotional and diverse in views to decide things like that.

How many people have proposed to do so?
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Re: A Layman's Guide to the Universe

Postby OlegTheBatty » Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:58 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Cadmusteeth wrote:Society at large is too emotional and diverse in views to decide things like that.

How many people have proposed to do so?

At least one.
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Re: A Layman's Guide to the Universe

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:32 pm

So, a thundering herd not so much.
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Re: A Layman's Guide to the Universe

Postby Cadmusteeth » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:41 pm

I think that the opposite is true. I think those who are anti science, not cons or hucksters, are worried about abandoning morals in the wake of sciece and logic.
I don't intend it, I know nobody here intends it -I hope-, but not everyone sees it that way.
It makes it harder to talk about it when induviduals -on any end of the spectrum- is looked down upon and belittled for having unpopular views.
I'm not suggesting we give them a pat on the back and say nothing. I say we just stick to pointing out terribly they present evidence and recieve critism.
Did I leave anything out?

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Re: A Layman's Guide to the Universe

Postby Cadmusteeth » Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:56 pm

I will like to appologise; I've berated people for looking down on others when I have not upheld my own standards. That is hypocritical and in poor form.
I also realise others have come here to forum to feign humility and receive criticism and then lash out when they do.
When I said that we can't determine values through logic and reason alone, I meant we can't determine absolute values from them; any more than any other ideology, no matter how well reasoned.
If there is something unclear or wrong about my argument, could you be more specific than I'm idiot or whatnot? That would very much appreciated.

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Re: A Layman's Guide to the Universe

Postby Cadmusteeth » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:26 pm

I'm just digging a deeper hole for myself rant I?

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Re: A Layman's Guide to the Universe

Postby Gord » Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:15 am

I didn't even notice any rant in the first place. :pardon: What are you apologising for again?
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
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Re: A Layman's Guide to the Universe

Postby Cadmusteeth » Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:33 am

I was appologizing for being a hypocrit in other threads.

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Re: A Layman's Guide to the Universe

Postby Gord » Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:36 am

Well I don't accept your apple-ogy, so make like a hypocrite in this thread too!

Also, make me a pie. Cherry. Not too tart.

Then we'll talk. 8-)
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

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Re: A Layman's Guide to the Universe

Postby fromthehills » Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:32 pm

I'm just thinking out loud, here. But I don't think science needs to, or should, dictate morals. I was a big fan of Harris's "Letter to a Christian Nation" and the other one. But "Moral Landscape" is delving into realms more in line with Zen Buddhism. Which for a religion isn't a bad one, being nontheocratic. I just view Harris's view as a slippery slope to dogma. And that's where the trouble lies.

Excluding psychopaths and narcissists, we generally have the morals built in. Take a look at Rawl's " Veil of Ignorance" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veil_of_ignorance.

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Re: A Layman's Guide to the Universe

Postby Poodle » Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:26 pm

I completely agree. Science is science and other stuff isn't (yeah, that's glib but it's also very true). The very second you begin looking at science through a filter is the very second you begin to go wrong.


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