Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

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Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:23 pm

Well....USA tv full of the reports of the 500 year flood taking place in Houston right now and for the next 4-5 days. A very slow moving Cat 4 Hurricane dumping 2-3 feet of rain over various time frames.

This has been a "known" condition for over one week prior to landfall. News guy says Houston knew this and was prepared for the event but still benefits from Federal and neighboring States help.

So........ my thought.......... they knew..... and did nothing. Is that Good Government???

Seems to me a proactive performing government would have taken the rain fall info and plotted the 500 year flood on maps of the area an ADVISED RESIDENTS FOR THE WEEK PRIOR.... of who was going to get flooded out. Instead... people were NOT given mandatory evacuation orders because "its too difficult to move people out of nursing homes and ...." Now, I'm hearing the Govenor of Texas taking credit for calling this an Emergency AFTER IT FRICKIN HAPPENED.

I know about floods and various other issues. I have "red lined" various neighborhoods in my criteria for new home purchases, never cared when renting, but I don't think I went to the 500 year level. Should the government be any more sanguine than myself?

I think so.
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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby scrmbldggs » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:29 pm

If they can declare "success" after not bothering with all proper measures after early warning, who then needs early warning, eh? (Sez the guy who's cutting funding.)


Luck would have it landfall wasn't in a densely populated area...
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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:37 pm

Eggs: I agree and that is certainly in process right now. Trump cutting all kinds of staffing and funding AND MISSION of various protective Federal Service. After disaster less predictable than Harvey hits..... he will then blame Democrats for whatever and take credit for only then reacting to what basically he caused to happen in the first place.

Just like Harvey.
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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby Flash » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:03 pm

What global warming eh?

I would like to add that I hope our Texas buddy Ruben aka Aztexan is ok?
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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:07 pm

AGW.... getting a bad rap for wrongly predicting more and bigger storms. But we're getting the biggest storms in history and record breaking 100 year events on a regular basis. So..... the prediction, the effects of AGW "should have been" bigger more intense storms and leave the frequency out???

Science Deniers...always demand greater detail that the models can predict. They don't care about the general trends being totally accurate.
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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:35 pm

Breaking News: Houston Mayor says no regrets in not ordering evacuations. If your home has taken on water and its not life threatening, he advises to "Stay in Place". He's happy to report that "High Water Vehicles" for rescue operations are being provided.

He should be run out of office......... once the water goes down.
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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:36 am

Half way thru the flood and bunch of people talking about how the water was never an issue before....but now...they have lost everything. Nice middle class educated white people have "lost everything."

I dunno. Unless I was REALLY busy at work and somehow disconnected from the news.....on report that a cat 4 was going to dump 4 feet of rain on my house.........I think I'd do a serious map elevation/drainage search on Google and find out how deep the water would get at my house........or go to the local water management website or *where ever* and figure this out for myself? Rent a U-Hall and get all my *stuff* to high ground???????

I mean.........what did these clowns do with their education?

Contra: the natural hesitancy to sit around with your thumb up your ass. I do that too.....but with a flooding history in your area.......wouldn't you be curious.... if not protective of your assets? "By the time the water was up to your knees and your furniture started floating, it was too late to do anything. 2 hours later.... the water was up to my chest, up to the steering wheels of my cars in the garage........ I've lost everything."

Hah, ha........yeah......and you lost your self protective instinct and common sense well before your property.........
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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:54 am



Graphic is from http://blogs.agu.org/wildwildscience/20 ... ast-night/

And it states what i was going to suggest: map the flooded areas and zone them for city parks. The article supports notion this "should have been done" decades ago. Its called basic good government==>you know: Science Fiction.

Every single government leader taking credit for the speed of the response to the emergency. Saw a show yesterday about water experts in the Netherlands: "When we say why not plan so there is no emergency, we get looked at with blank stares."

I HATE POLITICIANS.

I live in Sacramento. The USA's Number Two Flood Hazard Area after Florida. South Sac is below the level of a modest river rise and is protected by levees "designed" 100 years ago. My sister was going to buy a house down there "South Land Park" and I told her not to do it because of the flood. She also looked at me with a blank stare.... but she's been doing that for years. Still.... she went ahead and rented.

Do I ever get thanks? Ha, ha................Knowledge is Power.
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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:27 pm

"So........ my thought.......... they knew..... and did nothing. Is that Good Government???"

Dafuq are you talking about.
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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:32 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:"So........ my thought.......... they knew..... and did nothing. Is that Good Government???"

Dafuq are you talking about.

Just what I said.
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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby Austin Harper » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:11 pm

Office of the Texas Governor wrote:Governor Abbott Declares State of Disaster For 30 Texas Counties in Anticipation Of Tropical Depression Harvey Making Landfall
August 23, 2017

In anticipation of Tropical Depression Harvey making landfall in the Gulf Coast region, Governor Greg Abbott today preemptively declared a State of Disaster for Aransas, Austin, Bee, Calhoun, Chambers, Colorado, Brazoria, DeWitt, Fayette, Fort Bend, Galveston, Goliad, Gonzales, Harris, Jackson, Jefferson, Jim Wells, Karnes, Kleberg, Lavaca, Liberty, Live Oak, Matagorda, Nueces, Refugio, San Patricio, Victoria, Waller, Wharton and Wilson counties. Forecasts from the National Weather Service and the National Hurricane Center expect this storm to intensify in the coming days causing severe flooding, storm surges and damaging winds. Earlier today the Governor ordered the State Operations Center (SOC) to elevate its readiness level as the storm approaches, and made available any and all state resources to assist in preparation, rescue and recovery efforts.

“Texans believe in taking action and always being prepared in the event of an emergency,” said Governor Abbott. “That is why I am taking every precaution prior to Tropical Depression Harvey making landfall. Preemptively declaring a state of disaster will allow Texas to quickly deploy resources for the emergency response effort in anticipation of the storm's hazardous conditions.”
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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:13 pm

Big fat lie..........just like I said.

Declare an emergency..... then tell people leave if they can, but staying is ok. NO PLANNING AT ALL.
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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:19 pm

Jebus am I tired of people saying: "I've never seen it this bad before." Inlcuding the weather derps who give their 10 years of reporting credentials first. ITS A 500 YEAR WEATHER EVENT!!!!!!

Bone Heads. No wonder no one left. "Action News....... Keeping you Informed." ....... HAH!!!!!!
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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby gorgeous » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:29 pm

Harvey was created by the govt... with .H.A.R.R.P.
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby gorgeous » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:40 pm

Harvey - Steered into Texas Coast by Microwave Burst? -HAARP ...



fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/harvey-steered-texas-coast...burst-haarp/206437


16 hours ago - I don't give a damn what people think happened here, HAARP technology steered Harvey for nothing more than greed for the mammon that is ...
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:02 pm

Say G.... do you work at turning every issue into Woo, or is that just what you see everywhere you look?

So............what if ............... there is no spike in Oil/Gas prices?

Or should I take the links attitude and just say: "I don't care what you think.... it never happened."
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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby gorgeous » Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:12 pm

its real...govt science ---HARRP
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:10 pm

So............what if ............... there is no spike in Oil/Gas prices?
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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:49 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:"So........ my thought.......... they knew..... and did nothing. Is that Good Government???"

Dafuq are you talking about.

Just what I said.

I'm sure of that.
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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:56 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Big fat lie..........just like I said.

Declare an emergency..... then tell people leave if they can, but staying is ok. NO PLANNING AT ALL.

From what I heard no mandatory evacuation was issued because in a prior instance (or instances?), the evacuation itself caused more harm and death than what was expected of this situation.
.

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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby Austin Harper » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:22 pm

NPR wrote:Why Didn't Officials Order The Evacuation Of Houston?
...
Harvey brought "unprecedented" amounts of rainfall to the region — and more rain is yet to come. Thousands of people have been rescued from floodwaters, and some 30,000 are expected to wind up in shelters. More counties and towns have issued evacuation orders, including a county just southwest of Houston, but the city itself has not.

People outside the city, watching this unfold, have wondered why — some quietly, some loudly. Why were all those people home in the first place? Why were officials wary of calling an evacuation?

There are multiple reasons, but one good place to start is on a scorching-hot, utterly gridlocked freeway more than a decade ago.

In 2005, just a few weeks after Hurricane Katrina devastated New Orleans, Hurricane Rita made its way toward Houston. Rita was even stronger than Katrina — and Houstonians had just witnessed what happened to New Orleans residents who decided to wait out the storm. Nobody wanted to repeat that mistake.

The result: The largest evacuation in U.S. history, according to PBS. Texas legislators estimated that 3.7 million people left the Houston region in the evacuation effort.

The evacuation was a disaster in itself.
...
Read more
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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:27 pm

Yeah! That^! :-P
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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:17 pm

Eggs and Austin: Of course that is true. Gee boys........if we aren't all three IDIOTS, aka: fit for government service===>is there any way we could figure out some middle ground between DOING NOTHING vs A GENERAL OVER REACTION???? Or do we just have to be bone headed stupid all the time????????

Note the OP: Get a Map and figure out where its going to Flood and warn them. That pretty much directly says don't evacuate an entire city when only the parts KNOWN to be going underwater need to be dealt with.

bone head thinking: "Its either/or........" No need to think at all.

EDIT: heh, heh.....I see my ire at stupid government overflowed its banks. I could edit to remove the sting but keep the lesson? I'll leave it, and mark my own deficiency. ........ choices. I really don't like choices. Bad thinking might be one thing that does trickle down from "leadership?" I am constantly "amazed" at how stupid our Leaders appear to be. Very often..... its just a function of their own avarice, greed, corruption and pandering. I wonder to what degree lack of disaster planning is too?
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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby Flash » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:36 pm

bobbo the Pragmatist wrote:
Well....USA tv full of the reports of the 500 year flood taking place in Houston right now and for the next 4-5 days.

Oh, that's okay eh. Another storm like this won't come for 500 years or so. Everything is dandy, we can burn coal again.

And that pesky alarmist phrase "the anthropogenic climate warming" has been avoided like a plague by the Main Street Media. Strange, it is as if somebody wiped out their collective memory or worse, told them all at the same time to stay away from it.

And finally the good news. Aztexan is Okay. I hope you didn't have to swim too far to the dry land Ruben. :yahoo:
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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:40 pm

I just read a good article on the fact that there have been 3 (?) one hundred year floods in the last 10 years. That 30% of the rain that fell was because of AGW.... and as with all large storms.... it was "driven" by the hottest the Gulf has been for some time.... from 3 to 7 degrees warmer than average. Most storms lose power as they move North to the Coast as they churn up the ocean bringing cooler water to the surface. With AGW though the Gulf is warmer for the first 200 feet and so the churning has no cooling effect. Hence: larger storms.

I expect another 500 year flood to hit the Gulf in the next 10 years. Its the new normal: and look at the disruption.

Very telling........will be what Houston does with the data they have now. Are they finally going to zone the low land in their city as Flood Relief Areas/Public Parks............or go on being Texas?
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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:54 pm

Its a short interesting read:

Did Climate Change Intensify Hurricane Harvey?

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/arc ... ey/538158/

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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:51 am

Funny story... ha ha ... ha :|
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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:55 am

You also can find that^ story freely here...
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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:20 am

That is a good tag: "Houston is drowning—In its freedom from regulations......" //// One of the successes that Trump brags about................

Re the Charlatan Olsteen: I don't think any charity should be expect to give its money to "general relief services".... but they should be giving aid and comfort as they can on their own? Its not crystal clear but the main criticism seems to be he didn't open his church up as a place of refuge....but if it was flooded, doesn't seem like a valid charge.
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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:25 am

Seems it's sitting near flooded downtown areas. But I don't know all current details.



..."charity"? :scratch:
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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:34 am

scrmbldggs wrote: ..."charity"? :scratch:

Legally.......in addition to be subject to a fraud charge anytime a DA wants to enforce the law.............. not in Texas.
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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby Aztexan » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:42 am

Flash wrote:
And finally the good news. Aztexan is Okay. I hope you didn't have to swim too far to the dry land Ruben.


Hey man I was born here.
Oh wait.

:P
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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:53 am

There you are! Good to see your usual self. :-D
.

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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby Aztexan » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:36 am

I've been here all along
If you fail to see that, it's because you do not see what is plainly visible: that physical presence is an abstract manipulation of sensory non-functionality and that your location as observed by yourself and others is equally non-sufficient and therefore rendered invalid as we are all just a bunch of random bits of data on a plane comprised of particles without purpose and waves without origin that happen to become self-aware of the fact that they do not exist except during rare, freak occurrences of interaction with other non-existent bits of sentient matter.
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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby TJrandom » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:25 am

New to this thread – just coming off of my honey high, having consumed honey processing residue wash water with lemon squeezing’s.

Where I once lived in the US Midwest – the zoning maps were marked with 100 year flood contour lines – and no buildings could be built there (no permits issued). Within the city, they were mostly converted to parks, and in the county left as grassland – and this was in an area that was rather hilly.

So for Texas – mostly flat, IMO – no rebuilding-in-place aid should be provided for those in the now flooded areas. Help for moving out, by all means. With being on the coast and subject to future hurricanes, these flooded areas would all be great for recreation and agricultural use.

In every place that I have ever lived, I have taken catastrophic flooding and landslide risk into consideration. This isn`t hard to do.

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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:04 am

TJ: that ain't the Texas way which is to have zero state and city income tax, be dumb as {!#%@} and then ask for a Federal Bailout. Then "we" throw that whole formulation out the window...... and bail them out.

Two fools dancing.
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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby TJrandom » Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:40 am

And Texas has reserved the right to succeed. I`d let them go ahead and do that. They can build their own wall, just further north, and raise their own bailout funds. :roll:

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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:53 am

Yeah..... saw an interesting constitutional scholar on Book TV talking about how the USA was unique in that its Union is totally voluntary. She was strongly convinced that States had the right to secede.

Thats just one interesting Alt-historical scenario: what if the South had merely seceded and not attacked the Union? Ha, ha... not in the character of a slave monger..... but going to WAR didn't work........... so what is an unhappy State supposed to do?????
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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby TJrandom » Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:01 am

I thought that Texas was unique - having reserved that right when it joined the union. I believe the other states to not have that right - having been granted statehood on land that was already owned by the US, and without having reserved the right - so nowhere to succeed to.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
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Re: Houston, Harvey & the Failure in Science & Duty

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:32 am

That is what they claim....... but excellent point on states that came in using USA owned land. The Louisianna and Alaskan PURCHASE!!!===>How many countries did THAT?

............all comes down to power.
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
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