Anti abortion legislation gets insidious.

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Re: Anti abortion legislation gets insidious.

Post by Gord » Sun Feb 05, 2017 8:57 am

Gord wrote:aHA! dID IT!

Friggin' caps lock. :evil:
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Re: Anti abortion legislation gets insidious.

Post by TJrandom » Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:05 am

Thanks... fixed it.

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Re: Anti abortion legislation gets insidious.

Post by Gord » Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:15 am

Fixed my caps lock? Thanks! Now can you help me get my socks on, I seem to have too many feet....

*fever...rising?*
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Re: Anti abortion legislation gets insidious.

Post by TJrandom » Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:31 am

Gord wrote:Fixed my caps lock? Thanks! Now can you help me get my socks on, I seem to have too many feet....

*fever...rising?*


:roll: :banghead:

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Re: Anti abortion legislation gets insidious.

Post by scrmbldggs » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:29 am


Republicans make first move targeting Planned Parenthood funding
...

Republicans framed the move to rescind the regulation as a way to give back to the states the power to determine how federal funds should be spent on women's healthcare...

...Democrats call the move a thinly shrouded attack on abortion providers.

"It's really about getting at Planned Parenthood, and this is the first salvo in doing so," said Rep. Jim McGovern (D-Mass.)
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... li=BBnb7Kz


and

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38977029 wrote:Oklahoma abortions: Women may need partners' permission

A proposal which would force women to get permission from their sexual partner to allow them to have an abortion has passed the first hurdle in Oklahoma.
...
The fact Oklahoma lawmakers decided to move the measure toward a full vote by the legislature comes at a time the anti-abortion movement is growing bolder under President Donald Trump...
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Re: Anti abortion legislation gets insidious.

Post by TJrandom » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:41 am

scrmbldggs wrote: ...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38977029 wrote:Oklahoma abortions: Women may need partners' permission

A proposal which would force women to get permission from their sexual partner to allow them to have an abortion has passed the first hurdle in Oklahoma.
...
The fact Oklahoma lawmakers decided to move the measure toward a full vote by the legislature comes at a time the anti-abortion movement is growing bolder under President Donald Trump...


Just wait until the logical extension of this gets raised... that child care payments start with conception....

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Re: Anti abortion legislation gets insidious.

Post by Sushisnake » Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:47 am

scrmbldggs wrote:President Trump signs order to bar international NGOs that provide abortion services from receiving federal aid

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/23/politics/ ... index.html

That's chilling.

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Re: Anti abortion legislation gets insidious.

Post by Sushisnake » Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:36 am

Paul Anthony wrote:Like so many issues these days, abortion has become a black/white, left/right one way or the other way thing. And, as usual, both sides are wrong.

Abortion is justified in some cases and not justified in others. Saying it should never be allowed is wrong. Saying it should always be available is also wrong. When will we find a middle ground?

A victim of rape should not be forced to have a baby. If a doctor determines giving birth will be detrimental to the woman's health, abortion should be an option. But, to accept abortion as a convenient means of birth control after a woman carelessly but consentually has sex is wrong. There are many forms of birth control available that can prevent unwanted pregnancies.

The religious right opposes all forms of birth control. Wrong!

The Left demands the freedom to choose abortion without any personal responsibility before the fact. Wrong!

But what annoys me most is the language used to give credibility to that claim.
"Women's health": Banning abortion doesn't prevent women from getting health care. Women have pretty much the same access to health care as men for everything from cancer and heart disease to the common cold.

"Reproductive rights": Women have the right to reproduce as much as they want all around the world except in China. If they want to protest for reproductive rights, they should be marching in China, not in the US.

The right to abort because a woman was irresponsible has nothing to do with health care accessibility or reproductive rights, but the right to abort when her doctor says her health is at risk is vital and should be protected.


Dear oh dear, here we go again.

Yes Paul, there are many, many kinds of contraception to prevent unwanted pregnancy, but guess what, old son? None of them are 100% effective. And guess what else? Millions of women can't use the most effective ones - the pill, implants, IUDs- for all kinds of health reasons. And here's a couple more facts to chew on: a lot of women who have abortions in the West are married with children, not irresponsible sluts who carelessly got knocked up on a night out and have abortions as often as they change sex partners! It often happens when women are breast feeding, they overestimate the contraceptive effect of lactation.

And hey! It takes a sperm to fertilise an ovum, so where do you get off with this "careless, irresponsible women having consensual sex" BS? Did you miss the talk about the birds and the bees when you were a youngun? Or do you take the madonna/whore dichotomy very seriously indeed and believe all good girls who become pregnant are virgins, no icky sex/sperm involved- nothing to do with men?

If I sound snakey it's because I am, mate, because unlike you, I'm female and I'm sick of blokes telling me when it's morally acceptable for me to reproduce and when it isn't. I would never presume to tell you when it's ok for you to father a child - dog knows if women had that power we'd insist you all waited a decade or so until you grew up and got over yourselves a little - anymore than I'd be mandating compulsory vasectomies for the oh so many of you sowing so many wild oats but taking bugger all responsibility for any that take root.

And what shall we do with all these unwanted children you insist must be born on moral grounds, Paul? Adoption's passe: IVF killed it. There are nowhere near enough foster parents anywhere. So we'll institutionalise them, shall we? Places like Boystowns and their female equivalents again. Havens for paedophiles and sadists, hell on earth for the children shoved in there to rot, out of sight and out of mind, to grow into damaged, broken adults, just ike the good old days. Sooo morally righteous!

I'm sure you're dismissing my comments as a feminist rant, but perhaps you have the ability to re-read your own comments and realise I merely paid you back in kind.

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Re: Anti abortion legislation gets insidious.

Post by Sushisnake » Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:44 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:The USA as reproductive caretaker for the entire world, then?

You know, along with being world cop and arbiter of universal morality.

No thanks.


And the one true light of freedom. Don't forget that. It might be my Australian misread of what Americans tell me but freedom seems to be distinct from morality. One comes from the founding fathers and the other comes from god. ;)

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Re: Anti abortion legislation gets insidious.

Post by Gord » Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:01 am

Sushisnake wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:The USA as reproductive caretaker for the entire world, then?

You know, along with being world cop and arbiter of universal morality.

No thanks.


And the one true light of freedom. Don't forget that. It might be my Australian misread of what Americans tell me but freedom seems to be distinct from morality. One comes from the founding fathers and the other comes from god. ;)

I think you meant dog? ;)
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Re: Anti abortion legislation gets insidious.

Post by Sushisnake » Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:00 pm

Gord wrote:
Sushisnake wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:The USA as reproductive caretaker for the entire world, then?

You know, along with being world cop and arbiter of universal morality.

No thanks.


And the one true light of freedom. Don't forget that. It might be my Australian misread of what Americans tell me but freedom seems to be distinct from morality. One comes from the founding fathers and the other comes from god. ;)

I think you meant dog? ;)


I thought about it. The fingers itched to type it. But I just couldn't bring myself to pair "founding fathers" with "dog", even though my reading over the years suggests the founding fathers spelled it d-o-g. Silly, isn’t it?

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Re: Anti abortion legislation gets insidious.

Post by scrmbldggs » Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:45 pm

:hmm: Hey, where did Sushisnake go?


_________________________________

Mike Pence Breaks Senate Tie To Allow States To Defund Planned Parenthood

“Mike Pence went from yesterday’s forum on empowering women to today leading a group of male politicians in a vote to take away access to birth control and cancer screenings,” Dawn Laguens, executive vice president of Planned Parenthood, said in a statement. “There’s a reason they could barely get enough votes to get this bill through a procedural step: People are sick and tired of politicians making it even harder for them to access health care, and they will not stand for it.”
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Re: Anti abortion legislation gets insidious.

Post by scrmbldggs » Sat Apr 08, 2017 5:34 pm

.
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Re: Anti abortion legislation gets insidious.

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Local control rather than national (or international) control.

Very good indeed.
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Re: Anti abortion legislation gets insidious.

Post by scrmbldggs » Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:32 pm

It's a done deal - money that already wasn't for abortions but healthcare can now be withheld.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/13/politics/ ... index.html wrote:

...Donald Trump privately signed a bill on Thursday that allows states to withhold federal money from organizations that provide abortion services, including Planned Parenthood, a group frequently targeted by Republicans.

The bulk of federal money Planned Parenthood receives, though, goes toward preventive health care, birth control, pregnancy tests and other women's health services. Federal law prohibits taxpayer dollars from funding abortions...
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Re: Anti abortion legislation gets insidious.

Post by TJrandom » Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:52 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:It's a done deal - money that already wasn't for abortions but healthcare can now be withheld.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/13/politics/ ... index.html wrote:

...Donald Trump privately signed a bill on Thursday that allows states to withhold federal money from organizations that provide abortion services, including Planned Parenthood, a group frequently targeted by Republicans.

The bulk of federal money Planned Parenthood receives, though, goes toward preventive health care, birth control, pregnancy tests and other women's health services. Federal law prohibits taxpayer dollars from funding abortions...


Yup - keep women pregnant and barefoot, and of course in the kitchen too - well, at least when not in the bedroom. Classic religion inspired nutterism.

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Re: Anti abortion legislation gets insidious.

Post by scrmbldggs » Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:15 pm

...well, maybe the states that most likely will go for it can't afford to be losing more of their... products
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Re: Anti abortion legislation gets insidious.

Post by Gord » Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:22 am

The endumbenation continues.
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Re: Anti abortion legislation gets insidious.

Post by Paul Anthony » Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:01 am

Sushisnake wrote:
Dear oh dear, here we go again.

Yes Paul, there are many, many kinds of contraception to prevent unwanted pregnancy, but guess what, old son? None of them are 100% effective. And guess what else? Millions of women can't use the most effective ones - the pill, implants, IUDs- for all kinds of health reasons. And here's a couple more facts to chew on: a lot of women who have abortions in the West are married with children, not irresponsible sluts who carelessly got knocked up on a night out and have abortions as often as they change sex partners! It often happens when women are breast feeding, they overestimate the contraceptive effect of lactation.

And hey! It takes a sperm to fertilise an ovum, so where do you get off with this "careless, irresponsible women having consensual sex" BS? Did you miss the talk about the birds and the bees when you were a youngun? Or do you take the madonna/whore dichotomy very seriously indeed and believe all good girls who become pregnant are virgins, no icky sex/sperm involved- nothing to do with men?


I was giving your post an honest read until you got snarky.

Tell me, is abortion the only medical issue on the minds of women? If you support abortion call it abortion, not "women's health". Or, since some men actually don't want to father children, free condoms and free vasectomies should be available to men under the heading of "Men's health".

If women should have the right to decide whether to have an abortion or give birth, men - who are expected to support the child for at least 18 years - should have a say in the decision, too.

If I seem a little angry, let me first admit that I haven't always been a pillar of morality. But I'm older and a little wiser, having learned a few lessons the hard way. Way back in 1968 I met a charming young lady at a New Years Eve party. Yes, we had sex. On December 7th of 1969, she gave birth to a son and listed me as the father on the boy's birth certificate. The hospital took her word for it. So did the state of California. It was left to me to prove I wasn't the father, under threat of wage garnishment for child support. No one - least of which the mother - consulted me until there was money to be had. Now, even though I wasn't as smart then as I am now, I was good enough at math to figure out that from conception on December 31st to birth on December 7th didn't add up. Elephants have 11 month pregnancies, and she was no elephant. :-)

Would she have been better off aborting? Maybe, but not my call because I wasn't the father. Whoever was, probably should have been part of the discussion, though.

In 1974, my live-in girl friend was pregnant even though her doctor told her she couldn't conceive. We discussed our options together and decided to have our son. It wasn't an easy decision for either of us. She had a career that got put on hold and we had to live on roughly half the income we had grown accustomed to. Although our 17-year marriage ended in divorce, I have a good relationship with my son and 3 grandchildren. Abortion would have been easier in many ways, and I can understand why some would make a different decision. The important thing IMO is that we decided together, because it affected both of us.

Calling abortion a "women's health" issue ignores the health of the father AND the child.
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Re: Anti abortion legislation gets insidious.

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:14 am

It's possible the necessary funds for that are spent on Viagra and penis pumps. But please correct me if I'm wrong. :-P
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Re: Anti abortion legislation gets insidious.

Post by scrmbldggs » Tue May 02, 2017 9:37 pm

I dunno where to stick this, so a tad offtopic it is. :pardon:


Trump To Appoint Mother Teresa Anti-Contraception Activist To HHS Family Planning Role
“Teresa Manning has spent her career denying science and peddling fiction about family planning and abortion,” Sen. Jeanne Shaheen (D-NH) said in a statement Tuesday. “Her appointment to oversee our nation’s family planning program is yet another step in the Trump Administration’s dangerous campaign to roll back women’s reproductive rights and undermine the immense progress we have made to reduce teen pregnancy and abortions, both at an all-time low, in part because of funding through the Title X family planning program.”
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Re: Anti abortion legislation gets insidious.

Post by TJrandom » Tue May 02, 2017 9:58 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:I dunno where to stick this, so a tad offtopic it is. :pardon:


Trump To Appoint Mother Teresa Anti-Contraception Activist To HHS Family Planning Role
“Teresa Manning has spent her career denying science and peddling fiction about family planning and abortion,” Sen. Jeanne Shaheen (D-NH) said in a statement Tuesday. “Her appointment to oversee our nation’s family planning program is yet another step in the Trump Administration’s dangerous campaign to roll back women’s reproductive rights and undermine the immense progress we have made to reduce teen pregnancy and abortions, both at an all-time low, in part because of funding through the Title X family planning program.”
Yup - keep `em pregnant and barefoot... that will make America great again.

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Re: Anti abortion legislation gets insidious.

Post by TJrandom » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:37 am

Slate has a good article on how Brett Kavanaugh will proceed to gut Roe v Wade if he becomes a supreme.

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Re: Anti abortion legislation gets insidious.

Post by OlegTheBatty » Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:08 pm

We've not had an abortion law since the SCOC overturned the existing law back in the late '80's. Abortion is covered by the medical plan*. A facility providing abortions is not required to inform the parents of a minor if the minor does not wish them informed.

And yet, somehow, Canada is not coming apart at the seams.

*There are some exceptions in New Brunswick; and some provinces are less assiduous at providing facilities than others.
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Re: Anti abortion legislation gets insidious.

Post by landrew » Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:18 pm

Polls are already showing significant opposition to overturning Roe vs. Wade. They had no luck overturning Obamacare either.
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Re: Anti abortion legislation gets insidious.

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:01 pm

What is wrong (and overwrought) is the notion that a Republican Roman Catholic on the Supremes (replacing another one mind you) == instant theocracy.

State legislatures (in those states) will keep trying as before, with small success.

The time to worry is when Justice Ginsburg passes on.
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Re: Anti abortion legislation gets insidious.

Post by Gord » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:45 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:And yet, somehow, Canada is not coming apart at the seams.
Is too is too!

We're at war with Trump, we're being inundated with dozens of immigrants crossing the southern border seeking sanctuary, and someone keeps trying to put maple syrup into everything!
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Re: Anti abortion legislation gets insidious.

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:21 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote: The time to worry is when Justice Ginsburg passes on.
Abortion rights is a serious issue for those affected by it: aka, a minority of people. I know: disproportionately the poor and ignorant, but when is that not the case?

But....the court is already insidiously at work corrupting everything else that is good and holy: one man one vote, not the rich having more influence as we HAVE HAD for the past 10 years. It will get worse if Ginsberg or other lefty is replaced by another righty BUT ITS BAD ALREADY.

Lets stay focused?
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Re: Anti abortion legislation gets insidious.

Post by Lance Kennedy » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:00 am

The problem with the USA is that it is too religious. Quoting New Scientist.

"But this is not borne out by the facts. In both the US and the UK, atheists are under-represented in the prison population and over-represented among civil rights and anti-war activists. The world’s most secular countries – notably in Scandinavia – are among the most peaceable and civic-minded."

Believers are more nasty. The answer is a law making it illegal for deists to stand for Congress.

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Re: Anti abortion legislation gets insidious.

Post by TJrandom » Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:53 am

I`d take away the tax exempt status of any organisation that doesn`t follow society’s secular laws or advocates for deist approaches to society’s problems or goals.

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Re: Anti abortion legislation gets insidious.

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:05 am

I'm for taxing churches like any other corporation, not using the promise of tax exemption to push them around.
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Re: Anti abortion legislation gets insidious.

Post by TJrandom » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:04 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:I'm for taxing churches like any other corporation, not using the promise of tax exemption to push them around.
Yes, better... now if we can get them to stop pushing society around. :|

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Re: Anti abortion legislation gets insidious.

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:15 am

It always amuses me that religions/churches don't "have to" be non-profit and subject to all those rules. they could easily go taxable and be free to spout any and all nonsense (ie: politics) they might want to. It would make donations harder to come by and they wouldn't have the excuse of legality to shy away from subjects that would alienate most of their flock most of the time.

But "pushed around" is pushing their non-stop victimhood farther than applicable.
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Re: Anti abortion legislation gets insidious.

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:22 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:It always amuses me that religions/churches don't "have to" be non-profit and subject to all those rules. they could easily go taxable and be free to spout any and all nonsense (ie: politics) they might want to. It would make donations harder to come by and they wouldn't have the excuse of legality to shy away from subjects that would alienate most of their flock most of the time.

But "pushed around" is pushing their non-stop victimhood farther than applicable.
In their view, not being able to force other people to listen to their prayers on public occasions is terrible persecution.

I see the Catholic Church hierarchy is lining up solidly behind Kavanaugh (the laity, I suspect, not nearly so much). They have just never gotten used to the fact that they can't run things in a pluralistic society. Catholic rules are NOT a good model for governing a country. They "worked" centuries ago, in the areas the church controlled, when it could demand protection from the Emperor or the King of Spain, and when it had its own police force to prosecute people nearer to the Vatican. But those days are over. They need to get over this and get back to promoting the milder, benign parts of Christianity.
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Re: Anti abortion legislation gets insidious.

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:57 pm

I agree with your representation of Christian Oppression in the USA. I think it every time I pass a street corner with two or more Churches taking up space.
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?