A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

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Tom Palven
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Re: Tom tries to change the subject again

Postby Tom Palven » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:18 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:What I'm suggesting is that every country's intelligence steering committee will state their end result goal and then the "back room boys" will work out the least costly, least dangerous and least politically exposed, plan.


This link is in answer to your previous question to me:
http://www.csun.edu/~hfspc002/news/cia.drug.html

But more importantly:
What is the intelligence steering committee's end goal in Syria at this moment?

Enquiring minds want to know.
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Re: Tom tries to change the subject again

Postby OutOfBreath » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:08 am

Tom Palven wrote:But more importantly:
What is the intelligence steering committee's end goal in Syria at this moment?

Enquiring minds want to know.

Isn't it obvious that different steering commitees in different countries want different things in Syria? Top of my head, you have Iran, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Gulf states, Israel, Lebanon (Hizbollah), Turkey and Iraq involved in "the game" alongside the US. Atm Russia seems to have the upper hand in the melee as they help assure Assad's continued rule.

What America wants in Syria have always been sortof vague. Obama didnt want to get involved in another middle-east war, so they go on providing a minimum of support to their chosen Proxy. Trump admin doesn't give a {!#%@} I think, unless Netanyahu has an opinion on it.

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Dan
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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Postby ElectricMonk » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:20 am

US troops and Kurds killed 200 Russian and Assad troops last week.
Guess no one cares.
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Re: Tom tries to change the subject again

Postby Tom Palven » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:02 pm

OutOfBreath wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:But more importantly:
What is the intelligence steering committee's end goal in Syria at this moment?

Enquiring minds want to know.

Isn't it obvious that different steering commitees in different countries want different things in Syria? Top of my head, you have Iran, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Gulf states, Israel, Lebanon (Hizbollah), Turkey and Iraq involved in "the game" alongside the US. Atm Russia seems to have the upper hand in the melee as they help assure Assad's continued rule.

What America wants in Syria have always been sort of vague. Obama didn't want to get involved in another middle-east war, so they go on providing a minimum of support to their chosen Proxy. Trump admin doesn't give a {!#%@} I think, unless Netanyahu has an opinion on it.

Peace
Dan


I agree that "What America wants in Syria (is) ...sort of vague" so I'd like Matthew, the self-proclaimed intelligence expert with all the inside info, who said that an "intelligence steering committee" within a country sets and implements goals, Dan, to address this.

My question to him again, which I have asked him twice before, is
What is the US intelligence steering committee's goal in Syria?

My own uneducated guess is that it wants to gain control of Syria and deny Russia of it's only Mid-Eastern military base and port in order to solidify control of the world, but that it's too late to lock the barn door because the barn has been crumbling for a while and the horse is long gone.
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Re: Tom tries to change the subject again

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:29 pm

Tom Palven wrote:This link is in answer to your previous question to me:
http://www.csun.edu/~hfspc002/news/cia.drug.html


That was a conspiracy blog and didn't have one iota of evidence.

You lied about Blum's book containing evidence, so you are now trawling unsubstantiated conspiracy forums to try back up your claim "The CIA runs the world"

Let's face it Tom. You can't back up your Russian talking point "The CIA runs the world"
:lol:

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Re: Tom tries to change the subject again

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:33 pm

OutOfBreath wrote: Isn't it obvious that different steering commitees in different countries want different things in Syria?
Tom refuses to recognise other intelligence services exist in other countries. Tom is only wanting to say how bad the CIA is in Syria. Tom doesn't actually know where Syria is.


OutOfBreath wrote:Top of my head, you have Iran, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Gulf states, Israel, Lebanon (Hizbollah), Turkey and Iraq involved in "the game" alongside the US. Atm Russia seems to have the upper hand in the melee as they help assure Assad's continued rule.
Don't forget the Kurds in Syria. They want a nation. :D

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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:37 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:US troops and Kurds killed 200 Russian and Assad troops last week.
Guess no one cares.
That was US retaliation ,for the Russian retaliation, for the USA backed rebels who shot down a Russian Fighter jet and who beat the Russian pilot to death after he ejected and landed.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-04/r ... ia/9394280

"Syrian rebels shot down a Russian warplane and killed its pilot on the ground after he ejected from the plane, Russia's defence ministry and Syrian rebels say."

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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Postby ElectricMonk » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:46 pm

The logic of war...
Luckily, there is no way this could escalate.
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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:48 pm

....and quickly back to Assange. Assange did not succeed in having his charges for skipping bail quashed in the UK. The judge made the following comments.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/ ... st-warrant

"I find arrest is a proportionate response even though Mr Assange has restricted his own freedom for a number of years.

“Defendants on bail up and down the country, and requested persons facing extradition, come to court to face the consequences of their own choices. He should have the courage to do the same. It is certainly not against the public interest to proceed.”


"Firstly, he can leave the embassy whenever he wishes; secondly, he is free to receive, it would seem, an unlimited number of visitors and those visits are not supervised; thirdly, he can choose the food he eats, the time he sleeps and exercises. He can sit on the balcony (I accept probably observed by the police and his supporters) to take the air. He is not locked in at night. I suspect if one were to ask one of the men incarcerated in Wandsworth prison whether conditions in the Ecuadorian embassy were akin to a remand in custody, the prisoner would dispute the working group’s assertions.”

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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:53 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:The logic of war. Luckily, there is no way this could escalate.

Actually I don't think it will. I think we are at the stage where the USA paid rebels are starting to be dumped by the USA and they will start seeking revenge for being dumped. It will be like anti-US Taliban evolving from the dumped US fighters paid to fight against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan.

I'm more concerned about Kurds and Turkey getting into clashes because the Kurds have the most effective military forces and they want their country ....somehow.

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Re: Tom tries to change the subject again

Postby Tom Palven » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:22 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:Let's face it Tom. You can't back up your Russian talking point "The CIA runs the world" [/color] :lol:


On Wed. Feb.14, 3:44 AM you stated:
"What I'm suggesting is that every country's intelligence steering committee will state their end result goal and then the "back room boys" will work out the least costly, least dangerous and least politically exposed, plan."

Who is it that makes up this steering committee if not the top-level top-secret permanent apparatchiks of the CIA?

Your CIA steering committee controls the Deep State which controls the US Empire which still, to a very large extent, controls the world.

You don't for a moment actually think that it is the Trump adminstration that controls US policy towards Syria, Iran, North Korea, China, or anywhere else, do you? It's YOUR STEERING COMMITTEE, (my CIA/Deep State) that controls the world. Got it now?

Seriously, without changing the subject, do we agree on that?
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Re: Tom tries to change the subject again

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:18 am

Tom Palven wrote: "The CIA runs the world"
Tom Palven wrote: Who is it that makes up this steering committee if not the top-level top-secret permanent apparatchiks of the CIA?
You really are a total idiot. The CIA doesn't run the USA Steering committee and the USA is not "the world".

Did you really forget us informing you about the role of the Director of National Intelligence. That was only two weeks ago.
:lol:

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Re: Tom tries to change the subject again

Postby Tom Palven » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:47 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tom Palven wrote: "The CIA runs the world"
Tom Palven wrote: Who is it that makes up this steering committee if not the top-level top-secret permanent apparatchiks of the CIA?
You really are a total idiot. The CIA doesn't run the USA Steering committee and the USA is not "the world".

Did you really forget us informing you about the role of the Director of National Intelligence. That was only two weeks ago.
:lol:


Some people think that it is the President who controls your "steering committee." Others say it is Congress. And you say that it is the Director of National Intelligence (right-to-lifer Daniel Coats).

I humbly submit to you that it is none of these, but instead a permanent body of deep state apparatachiki who give Coats his marching orders.

Give this a little more thought. I've connected the dots for you several times.

Just for one little example, Obama didn't want to overthrow the democratically-elected government of Dr. Mohammed Morsi in Egypt, but US CENTCOM aided, abetted, orchestrated, and funded his overthrow and the abolishment of the democratically-elected parliament, and installed General Abdul Fattah al-Sisi in his place.

Graduate electrical engineer Dr. Morsi remains in prison in Egypt along with many former members of the parliament and Al-Jazeera reporters, and freedom of speech and of the press have been abolished.

https://news.antiwar.com/2018/02/14/us- ... -on-syria/
Last edited by Tom Palven on Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Postby OutOfBreath » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:29 pm

So, the national egyptian army is just a cia front?

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Dan
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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Postby Tom Palven » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:18 pm

OutOfBreath wrote:So, the national egyptian army is just a cia front?

Peace
Dan


For all practical purposes, yes Dan:

https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/origin ... y-aid.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Egypt
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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Postby OutOfBreath » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:21 pm

Tom Palven wrote:
OutOfBreath wrote:So, the national egyptian army is just a cia front?

Peace
Dan


For all practical purposes, yes Dan:

https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/origin ... y-aid.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Egypt

A dead link and the wiki on human rights abuses in egypt? Not exactly compelling evidence of cia doings. (Can only the cia abuse human rights?)

Peace
Dan
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Re: Tom tries to change the subject again

Postby OutOfBreath » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:41 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
OutOfBreath wrote:Top of my head, you have Iran, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Gulf states, Israel, Lebanon (Hizbollah), Turkey and Iraq involved in "the game" alongside the US. Atm Russia seems to have the upper hand in the melee as they help assure Assad's continued rule.
Don't forget the Kurds in Syria. They want a nation. :D

Oh i know. I was containing myself to the foreign actors involved. If I were to list all the internal factions I'd be sitting here all night. Point ofcourse being to show the presence of multiple actors and the complications therein.

Peace
Dan
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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Postby Tom Palven » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:43 pm

OutOfBreath wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:
OutOfBreath wrote:So, the national egyptian army is just a cia front?

Peace
Dan


For all practical purposes, yes Dan:

https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/origin ... y-aid.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Egypt

A dead link and the wiki on human rights abuses in egypt? Not exactly compelling evidence of cia doings. (Can only the cia abuse human rights?)

Peace
Dan


The link is okay in my post.

Here it is again:
https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/origin ... y-aid.html

Peace,
Tom
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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Postby OutOfBreath » Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:06 pm

Tom Palven wrote:
OutOfBreath wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:
OutOfBreath wrote:So, the national egyptian army is just a cia front?

Peace
Dan


For all practical purposes, yes Dan:

https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/origin ... y-aid.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Egypt

A dead link and the wiki on human rights abuses in egypt? Not exactly compelling evidence of cia doings. (Can only the cia abuse human rights?)

Peace
Dan


The link is okay in my post.

Here it is again:
https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/origin ... y-aid.html

Peace,
Tom

Okay. So i gather that:
1. The us sells weapons to anyone (including egypt).
2. Egypt is not complying with transparency wanted by us govment for weapons received.
3. Egypt is a shithole country for human rights.

Where's the cia in any of that? Egypts government is no good and america has never cared much about who ghey sell weapons to.

Peace
Dan
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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Postby Tom Palven » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:31 pm

OutOfBreath wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:
OutOfBreath wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:
OutOfBreath wrote:So, the national egyptian army is just a cia front?

Peace
Dan


For all practical purposes, yes Dan:

https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/origin ... y-aid.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Egypt

A dead link and the wiki on human rights abuses in egypt? Not exactly compelling evidence of cia doings. (Can only the cia abuse human rights?)

Peace
Dan


The link is okay in my post.

Here it is again:
https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/origin ... y-aid.html

Peace,
Tom

Okay. So i gather that:
1. The us sells weapons to anyone (including egypt).
2. Egypt is not complying with transparency wanted by us govment for weapons received.
3. Egypt is a shithole country for human rights.

Where's the cia in any of that? Egypts government is no good and america has never cared much about who ghey sell weapons to.

Peace
Dan


The point, Dan, is that elements of the US government (call them the Deep State, the CIA, the Power Elite, the Steering Committee, the MIC, whatever) installed that military dictatorship in Egypt just as sure as they installed the Shah's military dictatorship in Iran in i953, and have been toppling governments in South America and the Mid-East ever since then.

And they toppled that government in Egypt against the wishes of the President of the US, Barack Obama, and without the consent of the US Congress.

And much of what we know about the actions of the CIA and NSA come from the efforts of Snowden, Assange, and Manning, the avowed enemies of Matt Ellard 008, which is what this thread is all about.

Certainly the Russians, the Iranians, and the Turks know all this:
https://news.antiwar.com/2018/02/14/us- ... -on-syria/

Peace,
Tom
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Re: Tom tries to change the subject again

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:38 pm

Tom Palven wrote:Some people think that it is the President who controls your "steering committee."
I'm Australian, you idiot. Our Australian steering committee is the Joint Intelligence Committee.

Tom Palven wrote: I've connected the dots for you several times.
You have never connected any dots whatsoever. You have spammed your Russian talk point conspiracy theory.

A Typical Day on the Skeptic Forum
Gorgeous wrote: The Illuminati runs the world
Skeptic wrote: Do you have any evidence?
Gorgeous wrote: Nope


David the holocaust denier wrote: The Jews run the world
Skeptic wrote: Do you have any evidence?
David the holocaust Denier wrote: Nope


Tom Palven wrote: The CIA runs the world
Skeptic wrote: Do you have any evidence?
Tom Palven wrote: Nope


Venerable Kwan Tom Woo wrote: The Russians run the world
Skeptic wrote: Do you have any evidence?
Venerable Kwan Tom Woo wrote: Nope


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:41 pm

..................course.................... the basic unexamined premise here is that the world "runs"? When every identifiable entity/interest comes up with a "Nope".........what are we to conclude?
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Tom's Russian talk points

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:30 pm

Tom Palven wrote: just as sure as they installed the Shah's military dictatorship in Iran in i953,

So it was the CIA on its own was it?

You forgot to mention the British in "Operation Boot" 1953, due to nationalisation of British Petroleum in Iran.

You also seem to forget UN Resolution 2 to get the Russians to leave Iran after they and the British occupied Iran in 1941 to secure its oil fields.

You really don't know where Iran is or anything about its history, do you?
:lol:

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Re: Tom tries to change the subject again

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:42 pm

Tom Palven a month ago wrote: James Clapper was Director of National Intelligence, the head of all the secret police
Ah so you claim the Director of National Intelligence runs the USA National Intelligence Committee?

Tom Palven wrote:I humbly submit to you that it is none of these, but instead a permanent body of deep state apparatachiki who give Coats his marching orders.
Ah so you claim the Director of National Intelligence doesn't run the USA National Intelligence Committee?

It must be very hard for you to keep up with all the changing Russian talk points aimed at undermining the CIA's investigation of Russian interference in the 2016 election. :lol:

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Re: Tom tries to change the subject again

Postby Tom Palven » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:23 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tom Palven a month ago wrote: James Clapper was Director of National Intelligence, the head of all the secret police
Ah so you claim the Director of National Intelligence runs the USA National Intelligence Committee?


Matt, to take half a sentence of mine and quote it out of context is a form of disinformation.

My full sentence was "James Clapper was Director of National Intelligence, the head of all the secret police, when he testified under oath before Congress that the NSA did not spy on a single US citizen.

It was several weeks later that Snowden published secret documents showing that the NSA spied on millions of US citizens.

You seem to be getting as disingenuous as Clapper, Matthew 008.

Are you so desperate that you have to resort to that kind of BS?
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Tom tries to change the subject again

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:24 am

Tom Palven wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tom Palven a month ago wrote: James Clapper was Director of National Intelligence, the head of all the secret police
Ah so you claim the Director of National Intelligence runs the USA National Intelligence Committee?


Matt, to take half a sentence of mine and quote it out of context is a form of disinformation.

My full sentence was "James Clapper was Director of National Intelligence, the head of all the secret police, when he testified under oath before Congress that the NSA did not spy on a single US citizen.


Just a third party kibitzer here quite happy to pounce on Matt if he makes a mistake....... but like most such "Its out of context" claims.... your full sentence adds nothing to what Matt said, to the point being made. Claiming it does makes you less than disingenuous.... just incompetent.
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Re: Tom tries to change the subject again

Postby Tom Palven » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:23 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tom Palven a month ago wrote: James Clapper was Director of National Intelligence, the head of all the secret police
Ah so you claim the Director of National Intelligence runs the USA National Intelligence Committee?


Matt, to take half a sentence of mine and quote it out of context is a form of disinformation.

My full sentence was "James Clapper was Director of National Intelligence, the head of all the secret police, when he testified under oath before Congress that the NSA did not spy on a single US citizen.


Just a third party kibitzer here quite happy to pounce on Matt if he makes a mistake.......



No apologies are necessary.

(A half-sentence quote that changes the meaning is just hunky-dory, right?)
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Tom tries to change the subject again

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:30 am

Tom Palven wrote:The CIA runs the world.
Unsubstantiated propaganda lie number 1#
Tom Palven wrote:James Clapper was Director of National Intelligence, the head of all the secret police,
Outright Propaganda lie No2#. There is not one police force under the USA Director of National Intelligence.

Gee Tom. You having a really bad time on our Skeptic forum. You should ask the Russians if you can post your talk points on a pet or cooking forum next time. :lol:

When George Ellard was inspector General of the NSA, the NSA collected domestic meta data from electronic communications. Do you know the nature of that meta data that Clapper said was collected? Was it on individuals?

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Re: Tom tries to change the subject again

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:33 am

Tom Palven wrote:No apologies are necessary.
None are coming. Your full sentence claimed Clapper was head of all USA secret police, when there wasn't one police force under him.

You can't stop lying can you?
:lol:

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Re: Tom tries to change the subject again

Postby Tom Palven » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:29 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:No apologies are necessary.
None are coming. Your full sentence claimed Clapper was head of all USA secret police, when there wasn't one police force under him.

You can't stop lying can you?
:lol:


Good one, Matthew 008! You've employed yet another logical fallacy, the Etymological Fallacy:
https://news.antiwar.com/2018/02/14/us- ... -on-syria/

Sounds pretty hifalutin, but it's also called Fallacy by Semantics or Semanticide, and it means purposely confusing the meaning of words, which is what you are doing, pretending that my integrity rests on whether the FBI, The Military Intelligence Corps, CIA, etc. are not by definition secret police or policing forces.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI_Police

Meanwhile, you refuse to acknowledge that neither the Executive, Congressional, nor Judicial branches of the US government are controlling what the US has been doing in Syria, Egypt, Turkey, and elsewhere around the world, and that it is what you have called a "Steering Committee" and others have called The Deep State that is in charge.
Last edited by Tom Palven on Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:51 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Postby ElectricMonk » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:48 am

Tom, please describe what you mean by "controlling the world".
I don't think the CIA determined which cereals I should buy.
Do you just mean "very influential" ?
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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Postby Tom Palven » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:56 am

ElectricMonk wrote:Tom, please describe what you mean by "controlling the world".
I don't think the CIA determined which cereals I should buy.
Do you just mean "very influential" ?


Before the sun set on the British Empire could it have been said that the British Empire controlled the world?

The US has a military presence in most countries around the world, far in excess of any country, and controls the world reserve currency.

Ii is my belief that the US deep state apparatchiki headed by the CIA (Matt 008's "steering committee") control the world in the Roman or British Empire sense, which doesn't go as far as dictating choices of breakfast cereal.
Last edited by Tom Palven on Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Postby ElectricMonk » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:28 am

The control of both mentioned empires wasn't very large when it came to governance: sure, the locals couldn't do much against their occupiers, but neither were they expected to do much beyond paying taxes.
Besides encouraging allies to buy Treasury Bonds, the US doesn't get paid by the rest of the world, not even our allies. In fact, the US has considerable expenses in keeping most shipping lines safe. Neither does the US have sufficient troops in any country to qualify as a credible occupation force.
The Cold War was a time were your view might have applied the most but didn't: the US had to pay countries to stay neutral or join it against the USSR.

Or perhaps you are suggesting that the CIA uses Mind Control?
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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Postby Tom Palven » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:37 am

ElectricMonk wrote:The control of both mentioned empires wasn't very large when it came to governance: sure, the locals couldn't do much against their occupiers, but neither were they expected to do much beyond paying taxes.
Besides encouraging allies to buy Treasury Bonds, the US doesn't get paid by the rest of the world, not even our allies. In fact, the US has considerable expenses in keeping most shipping lines safe. Neither does the US have sufficient troops in any country to qualify as a credible occupation force.
The Cold War was a time were your view might have applied the most but didn't: the US had to pay countries to stay neutral or join it against the USSR.

Or perhaps you are suggesting that the CIA uses Mind Control?


Perhaps you can answer a question which seems germane to the questiion of empire that Matt 008 seems reluctant to tackle:

What do you think is the goal of US forces in Syria?

And btw, what happened to the Roman and British Empires? Did they bite off a little more than they could chew?
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Postby ElectricMonk » Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:25 am

The goal of the US in Syria is manifold:
- to maintain US influence in the region by stopping Iran and Russia from extending theirs
- to support Israel, Iraq and other allied countries in the region
- to prevent a direct war between a NATO ally (Turkey) and Syria
- to accelerate collapse of the Assad regime in the hopes of stopping and reversing the flood of refugees from the country.

All in all the US is doing all of this half-hearted and half-arsed, mainly out of a kind of muscle memory about what to do when challenged. It is not about controlling resources because Syria hasn't got anything less troublesome regions possess, too. And only the most delusioned will believe that any post-Assad regime will become a strong, permanent ally in the region.

The key difference between the Roman/British empire and the current US is that US wealth or survival does not, in fact, depend on its "colonies": Rome needed Egyptian grain to feed itself. One-sided trade made Britain rich.
But if the US would withdraw from most of its bases around the world and shrank its military accordingly, it would not lose its preeminent position in technology and science, nor would it be at risk of invasion by anyone. Cultural dominace would continue.
The only danger the US faces (as always) is from within.
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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Postby Tom Palven » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:54 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:The goal of the US in Syria is manifold:...

...All in all the US is doing all of this half-hearted and half-arsed, mainly out of a kind of muscle memory about what to do when challenged. It is not about controlling resources because Syria hasn't got anything less troublesome regions possess, too.


I agree with most of what you say, but you are forgetting that what Syria possesses is Russia's only military base and port in the Mid-East which we can be sure Russian officials think they need to protect Russia's oil and gas pipelines in the area.

The US was unsuccessful in depriving Russia of it's military base/port in Crimea but it certainly will not give up it's efforts to topple the Assad regime and install it's own puppet in Syria without a struggle.

It makes no difference to the US powers-that-be that Syria is allegedly a sovereign country. This has never mattered in the past. What makes this different is that Russia has forces there, and thus makes this much more interesting and dangerous project than toppling Mohammed Mossadegh, Moamar Quadaffi, Saddam Hussein, or Mohammed Morsi.

And what makes it even more interesting is this:
https://news.antiwar.com/2018/02/14/us- ... -on-syria/

This on top of possible détente between North and South Korea!

Oh, my! A MIC nightmare!

But it could be a nightmare for the whole world if the US, Russia, or Pakistan start playing around with nukes.
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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Postby ElectricMonk » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:54 pm

Syria self-collapsed because Assad was stupid and shortsighted.
Russia wasn't going to lose Crimea, the Ukraine government was fine with extending the lease - didn't stop Moscow from invading another country. And no one was trying to push it out of the Tartus base.
Besides Sebastopol, Russia never had much of a ME presence, but it wants to change that now, and it will succeed because Trump doesn't care about the geopolitical implications.
If the US wants to achieve anything in Syria, it is to return to something like the previous status quo, but Russia is letting hundreds of its men die in order to extend its sphere of influence by supporting Assad.
Just because the US is bigger doesn't make it always the bully.
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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Postby Tom Palven » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:26 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:Syria self-collapsed because Assad was stupid and shortsighted.


Like the Assad regime, the Trump regime and the Netanyahu regimes are also stupid and short-sighted, but none of them have self-collapsed yet.

According to Wiki, the US provides some form of military aid to over 150 countries:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... litary_aid

It aids and abets such brutal regimes as the Egyptian military dictatorship and the elite royalty of Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, and yet it cannot abide Russia controlling ONE country in the Mid-East?

Russia is not "extending it's sphere of influence." It has long been allied with Assad. It is the US and Israel that demand Mid-Eastern hegemony and they have dug themselves into a big money pit with every intention, it seems, to keep on digging ever faster.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Tom tries to change the subject again

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:12 pm

Tom Palven wrote:Good one, Matthew 008! You've employed yet another logical fallacy,
No Tom. You are trying to change the subject to avoid the lies in your spammed propaganda mantras.

Your scripted talk points, tell you to only attack the CIA. That's why you never mention the 1953 Iranian coup was the British "Operation Boot" with the CIA having a lesser role.

That's why you claim "the CIA runs the world", but cannot provide an iota of supporting evidence. You simply repeat your scripted mantra over and over again.

Tom Palven wrote: The Military Intelligence Corps, CIA, etc. are not by definition secret police or policing forces.
That's right. The CIA, FBI and other agencies do not have any power to arrest anyone and are not police. We already informed you about this. You are pretending to forget again. You are confused with German wartime Geheime Staatspolizei

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Tom's Russian talk points

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:30 pm

Tom Palven wrote:Before the sun set on the British Empire could it have been said that the British Empire controlled the world?
The Private English speaking armies in the Indian sub continent were private. It was the Crimean War that forced the incorporation of returning British private armies into UK control. That is basic history.

Tom Palven wrote:The US .... controls the world reserve currency.
Are you on drugs? This is a blatant lie. :lol:

Tom Palven wrote:Ii is my belief that the US deep state apparatchiki headed by the CIA control the world in the Roman or British Empire sense,
Give us evidence for this hilarious claim for the following countries
.
1) The CIA controlling India,
2) The CIA controlling Russia
3) The CIA controlling China
4) The CIA controlling Sth East Asia and Japan.
5) The CIA controlling Australiaand New Zealand
6) The CIA controlling the EC ( Western Europe)

You can't provide any evidence for your propaganda mantra at all, can you? :lol:

(It is pretty obvious Tom knows nothing about Roman and British history)


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