A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Where no two people are likely to agree.
Tom Palven
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5430
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:07 pm

OutOfBreath wrote:Tom.
I think most of us here are fine with being critical to the US' doings in the world. What Matthew highlights, with his usual inclusive charm, is that you seem to neglect that other countries are up to much of the same games. That your anti-US establishment fervour seems to blind you from equally problematic sides about other countries' dealings. I find it weird that you cant even acknowledge or answer Matthew's point about SVR/GRU. If you really are the libertarian you profess to be, it shouldn't be hard damning other nations' versions of CIA and use of force when it suits them.

Peace
Dan
I think that we Americans shiould get our own house in orderr instead of bombing houses all over the Mid-East and threatening to "Bomb, bomb, bomb. Bomb,bomb Iran" and North Korea, and to topple Assad and Erdogan.

Peace,
Tom
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 28749
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:56 am

OutOfBreath wrote:I find it weird that you cant even acknowledge or answer Matthew's point about SVR/GRU.
Tom is simply not allowed to answer or respond to certain topics.

However, as Tom is copying talking points, without knowing the actual history himself, we are seeing some very entertaining mistakes. These are "tells" that Tom is working to scripted talk points.

Tom tried to surprise me, by saying Australian spies liaised with the CIA. That's because Tom never heard of the "Five Eyes" or that Australia and the USA's NSA, run Pine Gap, together, the very large signals intelligence facility in Australia. Tom didn't know any of this, yet was claiming to have political insightfullness.

What is very entertaining is that Tom claimed the CIA ran the world. The CIA was not aware and failed to brief Trump that the TransPacificPartnership has now gone ahead..........without the USA being a partner.
:D

Tom Palven
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5430
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by Tom Palven » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:15 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
OutOfBreath wrote:I find it weird that you cant even acknowledge or answer Matthew's point about SVR/GRU.
Tom is simply not allowed to answer or respond to certain topics.

However, as Tom is copying talking points, without knowing the actual history himself, we are seeing some very entertaining mistakes. These are "tells" that Tom is working to scripted talk points.

Tom tried to surprise me, by saying Australian spies liaised with the CIA. That's because Tom never heard of the "Five Eyes" or that Australia and the USA's NSA, run Pine Gap, together, the very large signals intelligence facility in Australia. Tom didn't know any of this, yet was claiming to have political insightfullness.

What is very entertaining is that Tom claimed the CIA ran the world. The CIA was not aware and failed to brief Trump that the TransPacificPartnership has now gone ahead..........without the USA being a partner.
:D
I hereby acknowledge your totally irrelevant BS about the SVR/GRU and your CIA talking points that Assange, Snowden, the Trump regime, me, and God knows who all else are all in cahoots with them. :roll:
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 28749
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:40 am

Tom Palven wrote: I hereby acknowledge your totally irrelevant BS about the SVR/GRU and your CIA talking points that Assange, Snowden, the Trump regime, me, and God knows who all else are all in cahoots with them.
Well done Tom. You actually wrote a sentence on your own, without just following a script.

Soooooo.........Do you still claim Assange should get a statue for his good work for the Russians, against the UK and USA?

Tom Palven
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5430
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by Tom Palven » Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:16 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tom Palven wrote: I hereby acknowledge your totally irrelevant BS about the SVR/GRU and your CIA talking points that Assange, Snowden, the Trump regime, me, and God knows who all else are all in cahoots with them.
Well done Tom. You actually wrote a sentence on your own, without just following a script.

Soooooo.........Do you still claim Assange should get a statue for his good work for the Russians, against the UK and USA?
Yes, and Snowden, too, who worked for the CIA and now lives in Russia.

When those guys work against the Deep State Power Elite I think that they are working for me and most Americans, just as those Germans who opposed the Third Reich were trying to act in the best interests of Germany and humanity in general. Try to grasp that concept.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 28749
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:10 am

Tom Palven wrote:When those guys work against the Deep State Power Elite I think that they are working for me and most Americans, just as those Germans who opposed the Third Reich were trying to act in the best interests of Germany and humanity in general. Try to grasp that concept.
But it is you, yourself, who is the so called "Deep state"

You claim the "Deep State" spreads propaganda, in your scripted anti American propaganda posts on our forum.

You claim the "Deep State" hides facts, while refusing to answer our direct questions about your scripted propaganda claims.

You specifically use the expression "Deep State" bogeyman, like "reds under the bed" bogeyman and "pinkos" bogeyman, to keep a fuzzy enemy that you can apply to anything your propaganda requires. (Tom has always been at war with Eurasia. Tom has always been at war with Eastasia.) On the other hand we real people have shown you conventional prosecution of Lockheed for bribery, Manafort for money laundering, Flynn for lying under oath and actual effective prosecution of crimes and you can't show us anything back. You have empty hands for your claims.

You are the thing, you are warning us against.


Scene from the Manchurian Candidate about Tom Palven
[bbvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0WZwSx7UdU[/bbvideo]
(Hint : Angela Lansbury is a KGB officer tricking an idiot American to say Russian propaganda.)

Tom Palven
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5430
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by Tom Palven » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:22 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: You claim the "Deep State" spreads propaganda, in your scripted anti American propaganda posts on our forum.
Oh, poor little Australian Matt. How can you stand it?

My views jibe closely with those of the people at The Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity...
http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/

...and those of the people at AntiWar.com
http://news.antiwar.com/

Are those people in cahoots with the Russian secret police like the Trump regime and Snowden and Assange and me as part of your conspiracy theory?

YES OR NO?

I acknowledged your SVR/GRU comments.

WHY DO YOU REFUSE TO ANSWER MY QUESTION?
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

User avatar
OutOfBreath
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2156
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:38 pm
Custom Title: Persistent ponderer
Location: Norway

Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by OutOfBreath » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:28 am

Tom Palven wrote: I think that we Americans shiould get our own house in orderr instead of bombing houses all over the Mid-East and threatening to "Bomb, bomb, bomb. Bomb,bomb Iran" and North Korea, and to topple Assad and Erdogan.
That's fine. But do note that many on this board are not americans, and we generally dont share your monomanic view that the US is all that matters in the world. To adress the points:

1) the US is not alone in middle east meddling. That has been a favoured pastime by every major Power (and several middling ones) since WW1. (French, British, Nazi Germany, Poland, Soviet/Russia, US).
2) Iran is mostly on the US, I will agree to that. Both directly, and as a Saudi ally.
3) North Korea is a problem for all the countries around it. I agree that trumpy's bluster is moronic and dangerous.
4) Assad: US didnt ever really want to be involved, and plays a very minor part there. The players there are all the neighbours basically and now Russia heavily involved with Assad for strategic reasons and "quickly won war" propaganda for the ppl back home.
5) Erdogan? Relations between Us and Turkey are complicated now due to differing views on the kurds, but how has the US done anything to get rid of Erdogan? The turkey coup attempt was from it's own army (the self-styled guardian of secular turkey), as they have been since the inception of Turkey.

Your comments reads like football commentary that only mentions whenever Messi touches the ball and what he does with it, but never mentions his 10 teammates, or indeed the opposing 11 players. Granted, Messi is a star player and very influential, but he isn't the whole game...

Peace
Dan
What is perceived as real becomes real in its consequences.

"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert

Tom Palven
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5430
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by Tom Palven » Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:06 pm

OutOfBreath wrote:
Tom Palven wrote: I think that we Americans shiould get our own house in orderr instead of bombing houses all over the Mid-East and threatening to "Bomb, bomb, bomb. Bomb,bomb Iran" and North Korea, and to topple Assad and Erdogan.

Your comments read like football commentary that only mentions whenever Messi touches the ball and what he does with it, but never mentions his 10 teammates, or indeed the opposing 11 players. Granted, Messi is a star player and very influential, but he isn't the whole game...

Peace
Dan
You've created a strawman, Dan.

I've never said that the US is the only game in town, just that with its gargantuan military budget, military bases all over the world including those encircling Russia, 17 secret police agencies, and on and on, that the US is far and away the most intrusive, murderous, war-mongering control freak in the world, outdistancing both Russia and China and a bunch of other countries put together.

Would you agree with that assessment?

Peace,
Tom
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

User avatar
OutOfBreath
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2156
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:38 pm
Custom Title: Persistent ponderer
Location: Norway

Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by OutOfBreath » Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:32 pm

Tom Palven wrote: You've created a strawman, Dan.
Not strawman, but a limping metaphor, assuredly. :)
I've never said that the US is the only game in town, just that with its gargantuan military budget, military bases all over the world including those encircling Russia, 17 secret police agencies, and on and on, that the US is far and away the most intrusive, murderous, war-mongering control freak in the world, outdistancing both Russia and China and a bunch of other countries put together.

Would you agree with that assessment?
For gross capability, yes the US is the biggest player. (Hence the limping Messi-metaphor) Far from the only player, and many times not even the main player although they do play bit parts in most areas. You have to remember the world has moved on from the unipolar order of the 90s and 00s, and power and influence isn't all about the biggest bombs.

As for intent, it is not at all unique. And about control, well, most states are control freaks to a degree and about various issues. Russia refuses any serious contender for president besides Putin and demand Control over chunks of eastern europe for instance. China are control freaks about Tibet/western China and the China sea. Saudis are control freaks about the middle east and controlling the oil markets. etc etc. Most of those things require use of force/armies.

The reason you come across as an apologist for every other regime, Tom, is that you enthusiastically attack any facet of american foreign policy and roll out "biggest baddest" and so on. On the other hand, you refuse to use anywhere near the same language for equally and at times even worse actions by other states, notably Russia. Perhaps you watch a bit too much RT. Remember that's the Kremlin's CNN. Russia's actions in Georgia and the Ukraine is no more morally defensible than US incursions in other countries.

If you are about peace and opposition of use of force, you should be much more "equal opportunity" about whatever state do the agression. You may hang on to the US being the number 1 offender in your view, but it won't hurt to take into account the rest of the world from time to time. Not only as victims of the US, but as the fully participating players they are.

Peace
Dan
What is perceived as real becomes real in its consequences.

"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert

Tom Palven
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5430
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by Tom Palven » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:41 pm

OutOfBreath wrote: You have to remember the world has moved on from the unipolar order of the 90s and 00s, and power and influence isn't all about the biggest bombs.

Peace
Dan
You know that and I know that, but the stale old intransigent deep state thinks that gunboat diplomacy is the answer to everything, or at the very least an answer for the poor starving members of the MIC.

As for my perceived anti-Americanism, to me the Fourth Reich is not representative of all Americans any more than the Third Reich represented all of Germany, which is now a peaceful, prosperous country with great traditions of scientific and other achievements, and great beer.

Peace,
Tom
Last edited by Tom Palven on Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

User avatar
OutOfBreath
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2156
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:38 pm
Custom Title: Persistent ponderer
Location: Norway

Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by OutOfBreath » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:57 pm

Tom Palven wrote: You know that and I know that, but the stale old intansigent deep state thinks that gunboat diplomacy is the answer to everything, or at the very least an answer for the poor starving members of the MIC.
Then you should be pleased that that old part of the GOP is near eradicated. However, not sure Trumpy's aimless nationalist swagger is any better. Depending on bent, diplomacy can be war by other means, or war diplomacy by other means. But colour me as unimpressed by war hawks as you.
As for my perceived anti-Americanism, to me the Fourth Reich is not representative of all Americans any more than the Third Reich represented all of Germany, which is now a peaceful, prosperous country with great traditions of scientific and other achievements, and great beer.
I know America is a complex place. But dont run into the ditch on the other side of the road, and remember the rest of the world is complex too. Military action isn't always wrong, and inaction isn't always right. The US can be a bully, but also a force for good varying on place, time and specifics. Ideologically, I'll take the US traditional liberal world order over the state-capitalism of China and budding ethno-nationalism of Russia.

Peace
Dan
What is perceived as real becomes real in its consequences.

"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 28749
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:20 pm

Tom Palven wrote: [Are those people in cahoots with the Russian secret police like the Trump regime and Snowden and Assange and me as part of your conspiracy theory?
Tom, you poor confused boy. The Deep State is your conspiracy theory.

I simply identified you posting Russian scripted talk points and refusing to answer direct questions about your propaganda claims.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 28749
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:24 pm

Tom Palven wrote:......, just that with its (USA) gargantuan military budget, military bases all over the world including those encircling Russia,
I didn't know the USA had bases in China. Gosh, next thing you know the Russians will have bases in Cuba.....oh.... wait.... :lol:

Tom Palven
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5430
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by Tom Palven » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:01 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tom Palven wrote: [Are those people in cahoots with the Russian secret police like the Trump regime and Snowden and Assange and me as part of your conspiracy theory?
Tom, you poor confused boy. The Deep State is your conspiracy theory.
Yes, I own up to it. I think that there's a deep state power elite with the Central Intelligence Agency at the helm.

Your conspiracy theory is that Snowden, Assange, the Trump regime and I, and probably the folks at AntiWar.com and the Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity are in cahoots with Russia.

Yes or no? Why keep avoiding my question?
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 28749
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Julian Assange / Traitor

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:32 am

Matthew makes his clear accusation
Matthew Ellard wrote: I directly accuse you of posting Russian talk points without a clue about what the actual historical events are. I secondly accuse you of hypocrisy, for claiming there is magical Deep State propaganda, while you are posting Russian propaganda and refusing to answer any questions about your claims.
Tom Palven wrote:Your conspiracy theory is that Snowden, Assange, the Trump regime and I are all in cahoots with Russia........
I made a very clear accusation. Do I need to draw you a cartoon with stick figures so you can follow it?


Hey Tom? What is the difference between the American CIA and Russian SVR? ( I know you are not allowed to answer this question)

Hey Tom? I understand, you don't believe any any social welfare for the poor? Is that true?
:lol:
Last edited by Matthew Ellard on Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tom Palven
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5430
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by Tom Palven » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:34 am

[quote="Matthew Ellard"]

Hey Tom? 1) What is the difference between the American CIA and Russian SVR? ( I know you are not allowed to answer this question) :lol:[/quote


Your conspiracy theory is that Snowden, Assange, the Trump regime and I are all in cahoots with Russia, right?

Yes or no? Why keep avoiding this question?
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Real Skeptic
Posts: 23923
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Custom Title: something
Location: somewhere

Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by scrmbldggs » Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:32 pm

Don't forget Nunes (and Gaetz). He's hoping to become part of the monument. :roll:
.
Lard, save me from your followers.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 28749
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Julian Assange / Traitor

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:16 pm

Matthew makes his clear accusation
Matthew Ellard wrote: I directly accuse you of posting Russian talk points without a clue about what the actual historical events are. I secondly accuse you of hypocrisy, for claiming there is magical Deep State propaganda, while you are posting Russian propaganda and refusing to answer any questions about your claims.
Tom Palven wrote:Your conspiracy theory is that Snowden, Assange, the Trump regime and I are all in cahoots with Russia........
I made a very clear accusation. Do I need to draw you a cartoon with stick figures so you can follow it? :lol:


Hey Tom? What is the difference between the American CIA and Russian SVR? ( I know you are not allowed to answer this question)

Tom Palven
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5430
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by Tom Palven » Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:57 am

scrmbldggs wrote:Don't forget Nunes (and Gaetz). He's hoping to become part of the monument. :roll:
We'll have to ask Matthew if Nunes and Gaetz get their scripted talking points from Russia and are actually deserving of being memorialized on the monument.

He apparently has privileged information on these things.

I wonder if Matt hasn't replied to this so far because he doesn't work at the Australian Secret Intelligence Service Bat Cave on weekends, and it's only around 2:00 AM Monday morning there right now. It's almost 10:00 AM Sunday here in Florida.

https://www.asis.gov.au/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 28749
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:47 pm

Tom Palven wrote: I wonder if Matt hasn't replied to this so far because he doesn't work at the Australian Secret Intelligence Service Bat Cave on weekends, and it's only around 2:00 AM Monday morning there right now. It's almost 10:00 AM Sunday here in Florida. https://www.asis.gov.au/
Well, firstly I was posting on the weekend against two UK Hari Krishna nut cases who claim Hitler was a loving person. You simply didn't know because your ego prevents you reading other threads. You are self absorbed with yourself and the USA, whereas the USA is not that important anymore.

Secondly, The ASIS "batcave" is in Canberra and I'm in Sydney.

Thirdly, I don't work for ASIS. ASIS uses contractors and only has a small admin and analyst staff.


So Tom? I answered your questions. It is my turn.

What is the difference between the USA's CIA and Russia's SVR?
:lol:

Tom Palven
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5430
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by Tom Palven » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:48 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tom Palven wrote: I wonder if Matt hasn't replied to this so far because he doesn't work at the Australian Secret Intelligence Service Bat Cave on weekends, and it's only around 2:00 AM Monday morning there right now. It's almost 10:00 AM Sunday here in Florida. https://www.asis.gov.au/
So Tom? I answered your questions. It is my turn.

What is the difference between the USA's CIA and Russia's SVR?
:lol:
Answer: The SVR works for the Russian government, and the CIA controls the US government.

But you still refuse to clarify your conspiracy theory.

It's that Snowden, Assange, the Trump regime and I are all in cahoots with Russia, right?

Why do you refuse to answer that question?
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 28749
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:24 am

Tom Palven wrote: Answer: The SVR works for the Russian government, and the CIA controls the US government.
That's not true is it?

1) You can't find one example to show us of the CIA running the USA.
2) Trump appointed the director of the CIA and not the other way around, as per your fantasy claim.

Well that was too easy.
:lol:

I can see you have backed down from your hilarious claim "the CIA runs the world". :D
Tom Palven wrote:But you still refuse to clarify your conspiracy theory.
I have clearly set out my accusation and you still pretend I haven't answered. Read it again or ask me to draw you a simple cartoon that even you can follow. :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=24767&start=40#p626651

Tom Palven
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5430
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by Tom Palven » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:02 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tom Palven wrote: Answer: The SVR works for the Russian government, and the CIA controls the US government.
That's not true is it?
Tom Palven wrote:But you still refuse to clarify your conspiracy theory.
I have clearly set out my accusation and you still pretend I haven't answered. Read it again or ask me to draw you a simple cartoon that even you can follow. :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=24767&start=40#p626651


I take that as a Yes, that you believe that Assange, Snowden, the Trump regime, and I are all in cahoots with Russia.

By coincidence the link below that appeared today addrresses a loosely knit conspiracy that is real, and it happens to include Australia.
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2018/01/pau ... ced-truth/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 28749
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Tom's Russian talk points

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:04 am

Tom Palven makes his claim and wrote: the CIA controls the US government.
Tom Palven wrote:I take that as a Yes,
Yes Tom. You are a complete idiot.

You claim the CIA controls the USA government whilst simultaneously knowing the Trump government appointed the director of the CIA. :lol:

It takes to full skill of a complete idiot, like yourself, to blatantly lie when everyone on the forum knows the facts.

Try another talk point from your Russian script. :D

Tom Palven
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5430
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: Tom's Russian talk points

Post by Tom Palven » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:11 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tom Palven makes his claim and wrote: the CIA controls the US government.
Tom Palven wrote:I take that as a Yes,
Yes Tom. You are a complete idiot.

You claim the CIA controls the USA government whilst simultaneously knowing the Trump government appointed the director of the CIA. :lol:

It takes to full skill of a complete idiot, like yourself, to blatantly lie when everyone on the forum knows the facts.

Try another talk point from your Russian script. :D
:roll:

https://libertyblitzkrieg.com/2016/11/2 ... more-39977
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 28749
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Tom's Russian talk points

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:06 am

Yooo hoo Tommy boy?

Have you ever read a newspaper? You really didn't know Trump's government appointed the director of the CIA, did you?

That's the problem with only following your Russian scripted talk points. When you spammed your talk point, that "the CIA runs the US government" everyone here just laughed at you. They knew the facts. :D

Try reading Московская правда as it has USA news.
:lol:

Tom Palven
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5430
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: Tom's Russian talk points

Post by Tom Palven » Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:26 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:Yooo hoo Tommy boy?

Have you ever read a newspaper? You really didn't know Trump's government appointed the director of the CIA, did you?

That's the problem with only following your Russian scripted talk points. When you spammed your talk point, that "the CIA runs the US government" everyone here just laughed at you. They knew the facts. :D

Try reading Московская правда as it has USA news.
:lol:

My goodness, Matthew, you may have set a record with your last few posts.

I believe that youve committed at least six logical fallacies in only a few short sentences, and I haven't even checked them that thoroughly.

Argument by Gibberish
Appeal to Popularity
Proof by Intimidation
False Conversation
Far-Fetched Hypothosis
Red Herring

That's more than just remarkable, it's stonkingly brilliant! :D
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/too ... cies-Na-Ri

One can only wonder and wait with bated breath to see what new fallacies your next post may bring!
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 28749
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Tom's Russian talk points

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:54 pm

Tom Palven wrote:My goodness, Matthew, you may have set a record with your last few posts.
No. That would be you Tom. You live in a double think world where the Trump Government appoints Mike Richard Pompeo to the CIA and you then claim "The CIA runs the US Government"
Winston Smith changing history.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 28749
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Tom's Russian talk points

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:01 pm

Tom Palven wrote: I haven't even checked them that thoroughly.
That would be true for pretty well every claim you have made. :lol:

Tom Palven
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5430
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: Tom's Russian talk points

Post by Tom Palven » Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:53 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tom Palven wrote: I haven't even checked them that thoroughly.
That would be true for pretty well every claim you have made. :lol:
Good post, Matt!

I think you just added several more fallacies to your list:

Ad Hominem

Shifting the Burden of Proof

Appeal to Ridicule (The Horse Laugh)

Argument by Repetition

Failure to Elucidate

Which reminded me of a few others you've used in the past:

Meaningless Quote Fallacy

False Attribution

False Hypothesis

Moralistic Fallacy

Political Correctness Fallacy

And the Strawman Fallacy

Priceless!

It seems that you are a truly amazing student of disinformation tactics!
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/too ... cies-Sc-Wi
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 28749
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Tom's Russian talk points

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:49 pm

Tom Palven wrote: I think you just added several more fallacies to your list:
Thanks Tom :lol:

Tom Palven is very aware that the Trump Government appointed Mike Pompeo as director of the CIA. Yet Tom Plaven sticks to his scripted Russian talk point "The CIA controls the US Government" against the actual evidence.

Obviously Tom's claim is a complete fallacy.

Tom Palven wrote:It seems that you are Tom Palven is a truly amazing student of disinformation tactics!
I fixed your sentence for you. :D

Tom Palven
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5430
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:51 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: I can see you have backed down from your hilarious claim "the CIA runs the world". :D
What gave you that idea?

Let me supply you with yesterday's Russian talking points, this time from the nefarious Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prospertiy website:
http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archive ... countries/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

User avatar
TJrandom
Has More Than 9K Posts
Posts: 9730
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:55 am
Location: Pacific coast outside of Tokyo bay.

Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by TJrandom » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:29 am

Tom, isn`t it great that so many countries love the US so much that they offer their land to host bases? And doesn`t is really suck that the world is so screwed that they feel the need?

Tom Palven
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5430
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:59 pm

TJrandom wrote:Tom, isn`t it great that so many countries love the US so much that they offer their land to host bases? And doesn`t is really suck that the world is so screwed that they feel the need?
Seems that elite politicians in a lot of countries respond to US carrots and sticks when it comes to hosting US military bases whereas most of the one-percenters would rather that the US troops went home, Japan being a case in point.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

User avatar
TJrandom
Has More Than 9K Posts
Posts: 9730
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:55 am
Location: Pacific coast outside of Tokyo bay.

Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by TJrandom » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:00 pm

I can assure you that those protesters are not 1%ers.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 28749
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:29 pm

Tom Palven wrote:Let me supply you with yesterday's Russian talking points, this time from the nefarious Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prospertiy website
Ron Paul from the Libertarian Party? I'm way ahead of you.

Libertarian Party of Russia
The Libertarian Party of Russia (Russian: Либертарианская партия России; Libertarianskaya partiya Rossii) is a political party in the Russian Federation founded in 2007

International Alliance of Libertarian Parties
The International Alliance of Libertarian Parties (IALP) is an alliance of libertarian political parties across the world. Its mission is to promote libertarian politics internationally.

The Russians also ran the Comintern. Do you know what the Comintern was? :lol:

So Tom. You don't believe in any form of state social welfare, do you? You don't believe in any form of national security like the FBI and CIA, do you? Russia thanks you for spamming your Russian talk points. :lol:

Tom Palven
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5430
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by Tom Palven » Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:20 am

TJrandom wrote:I can assure you that those protesters are not 1%ers.
Yes, I got it backwards. It's the 1% or so that want US troops stationed in their countries.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

User avatar
TJrandom
Has More Than 9K Posts
Posts: 9730
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:55 am
Location: Pacific coast outside of Tokyo bay.

Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by TJrandom » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:59 am

Tom Palven wrote:
TJrandom wrote:I can assure you that those protesters are not 1%ers.
Yes, I got it backwards. It's the 1% or so that want US troops stationed in their countries.
Even in Okinawa, support for the stationing of US troops is far greater than 1%. The problem Okinawa has is that it hosts most (over 70%?) of the bases and troops, so is proportionally overburdened.

Tom Palven
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5430
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by Tom Palven » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:04 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
I can see you have backed down from your hilarious claim "the CIA runs the world". :D

Please show me where I backed away from that opinion, Matthew.

You must have me confused with South Korea's President Moon who doesn't seem to understand that fact.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/jos ... cc148aae05

(And I disagree that Nikki Haley should be included in the Monument to Courage.)
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire