US and Allies Attack Syria

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Tom Palven
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US and Allies Attack Syria

Postby Tom Palven » Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:06 am

Fortunately for the world and unfortunately for deep state neoconservatives, the Russians haven't taken the bait and escalated the situation, so for the moment John Bolton and Bibi Netanyahu can just hyperventilate until they turn blue.
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Re: US and Allies Attack Syria

Postby Aztexan » Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:35 am

May that {!#%@} moron, trump, be the only casualty.
trump is Putin's bitch

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Re: US and Allies Attack Syria

Postby Tom Palven » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:17 am

Aztexan wrote:May that {!#%@} moron, trump, be the only casualty.


There are probably a lot more casualties than there were from the alleged poison gas attack.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: US and Allies Attack Syria

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:30 am

Tom Palven wrote: There are probably a lot more casualties than there were from the alleged poison gas attack.
Just the way it "should be" given the realities of stopping a madman propped up by other tyrants bent to their own purposes. Rather than focus on gas production plants....seems to me we should have taken out the helicopters as they kill more people every week dropping barrel bombs as they do? War: sometimes the guilty suffer too.
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Re: US and Allies Attack Syria

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:52 am

This is why I don't watch the news anymore.
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Re: US and Allies Attack Syria

Postby Tom Palven » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:29 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Tom Palven wrote: There are probably a lot more casualties than there were from the alleged poison gas attack.
Just the way it "should be" given the realities of stopping a madman propped up by other tyrants bent to their own purposes.


The "chemical attack" was probably as much a false flag as the "yellow cake uranium" and the "weapons of mass destruction" in Iraq. SSDD.

And Assad is a poor excuse for a madman when compared to John Bolton or Bibi Netanyahu, imho.
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Re: US and Allies Attack Syria

Postby ElectricMonk » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:00 pm

Tom Palven wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Tom Palven wrote: There are probably a lot more casualties than there were from the alleged poison gas attack.
Just the way it "should be" given the realities of stopping a madman propped up by other tyrants bent to their own purposes.


The "chemical attack" was probably as much a false flag as the "yellow cake uranium" and the "weapons of mass destruction" in Iraq. SSDD.

And Assad is a poor excuse for a madman when compared to John Bolton or Bibi Netanyahu, imho.



"Probably" as in " I haven't paid any attention to what help organizations on the ground say about the victims".

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Re: US and Allies Attack Syria

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:01 pm

TP: we don't know do we. I think we agree that: "It makes no sense" for Assad to gas his own people after President Bone Spur announced his intentions to pull out. EXACTLY the opportunity for a false flag operation....but who would do it?...and so forth. Ha, ha......hate to be unfair to a homicidal genocidal power hungry dictator, but history often is. What are the odds one way or any other way? I don't know, so "probably" is off the table. WMD in Iraq was a fraud on its face at first utterance. In that sense, more honorable because it was just a ruse.

Can you name and connect a few dots re Bolton and Bibi? Bolton to date has been all talk. So extreme he is mostly immediately dismissed.....aka: not much. Bibi is a much thornier issue. I like him as he is more direct and honest on most of his issues, not to include the lip service from time to time regarding a possible two state solution. What will any leader "look like" when surrounded by enemies...... the context most people don't include in their musings.
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Re: US and Allies Attack Syria

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:03 pm

TP--I see we both rested on "probably." I don't think the numbers matter.......issues are like that.
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Re: US and Allies Attack Syria

Postby Tom Palven » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:19 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Can you name and connect a few dots re Bolton and Bibi? Bolton to date has been all talk. So extreme he is mostly immediately dismissed.....aka: not much. Bibi is a much thornier issue.


I'm not going to go look for anything specific. There's a whole thread devoted to Bibi's BS over at Scams and Con Games.

Suffice it to say that he's been as much a warmonger as John "Bomb, bomb, bomb. Bomb , bomb Iran" McCain, and that he's been creamin' in his jeans for the US to depose Assad while he gets more and more buddy-buddy with the Saudi Arabian royal family who are much more barbaric and intolerant of civil liberty than Assad.

Recall that Bibi came to the US and campaigned for Romney over Barack HUSSEIN Obama.
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Re: US and Allies Attack Syria

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:27 pm

So..... you can't, but revert to Bibi is worse than barrel bombing Assad? I guess campaigning for Romney over Barack means ....... what? Or do I have to read another website to grok you?

All warmongers are not the same....situations/realities differ. .......... You know?
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Re: US and Allies Attack Syria

Postby Tom Palven » Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:29 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:So..... Bibi is worse than barrel bombing Assad?


"Barrel-bombing" smacks of Orwellian Doublethink, imho.

I carry no brief for Assad, and sure, there are lots of websites deploring how horrific barrel-bombing is, but does it really matter if you are maimed or killed by a primitive barrel bomb or a highly sophiisticated drone?

The US dropped 7,662,000 tons of explosives on Indochina during the the Vietmnam war. OVER 7 MILLION TONS of TNT, napalm, etc., and none of it came in barrel bombs. Why not? Because of humanitarian concerns? :lol: No, because they didn't need barrel bombs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_b ... ietnam_War

Isn't the denunciaition of barrel bombs and other IEDs by NATO states akin to the South African apartheid regime denouncing the use of spears as being less humane than assault rifles?
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: US and Allies Attack Syria

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:34 pm

"Barrel-bombing" smacks of Orwellian Doublethink, imho. /// You'd have to name those dots. I was actually thinking "chlorine gassing Assad" but as that assertion is disputed, I went with what everyone agrees is in fact the case. Any DoubleSPEAK would be coming from opposition to this simple universally accepted fact. Has Bibi gassed or bombed his own people? Is Israel in a civil war?.......gonna need lots of dots.

I carry no brief for Assad, and sure, there are lots of websites deploring how horrific barrel-bombing is, but does it really matter if you are maimed or killed by a primitive barrel bomb or a highly sophiisticated drone? /// In context, none at all. And for all those reasons, no difference with using gas or biologicals either. aka: Dead is dead. The relevant issue is not the method but the actor and the target.

The US dropped 7,662,000 tons of explosives on Indochina during the the Vietmnam war. OVER 7 MILLION TONS of TNT, napalm, etc., and none of it came in barrel bombs. Why not? Because of humanitarian concerns? :lol: No, because they didn't need barrel bombs. /// Correct, but irrelevant.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_b ... ietnam_War

Isn't the denunciaition of barrel bombs and other IEDs by NATO states akin to the South African apartheid regime denouncing the use of spears as being less humane than assault rifles? /// Yes....I see the analogy but I thought the issue was how Bibi Netanyahu was as bad or worse than Assad? Even if I did have a bias supporting Assad AND one against Bibi, I could not make that argument...... and neither have you.
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Re: US and Allies Attack Syria

Postby Tom Palven » Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:30 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Isn't the denunciaition of barrel bombs and other IEDs by NATO states akin to the South African apartheid regime denouncing the use of spears as being less humane than assault rifles? /// Yes....I see the analogy but I thought the issue was how Bibi Netanyahu was as bad or worse than Assad? Even if I did have a bias supporting Assad AND one against Bibi, I could not make that argument...... and neither have you.


I haven't tried to make a case as to whether Netanyahu is generally more evil than Assad or not, but think that it is without question that Natanyahu is as great a warmonger as John Bolton, and cannot even be compared to Assad in that regard. Assad is trying to retain power, as all of America's favorite dictators have done in the past and continue to do.

Need I supply this Murderers Row list?
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Re: US and Allies Attack Syria

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:22 pm

Tom Palven wrote:.....I haven't tried to make a case as to whether Netanyahu is generally more evil than Assad or not, but think that it is without question that Natanyahu is as great a warmonger as John Bolton, and cannot even be compared to Assad in that regard. Assad is trying to retain power, as all of America's favorite dictators have done in the past and continue to do.

Need I supply this Murderers Row list?


1. I haven't tried to make a case as to whether Netanyahu is generally more evil than Assad or not, /// But that is exactly what you do when saying:
And Assad is a poor excuse for a madman when compared to John Bolton or Bibi Netanyahu, imho.
You really shouldn't post the opposite of what you might actually think.....it confuses your readers.

2. then you flip back to exactly that position when saying:
but think that it is without question that Natanyahu is as great a warmonger as John Bolton, and cannot even be compared to Assad in that regard
this is confusing from various viewpoints. Bolton is a "diplomat" and makes no decisions or takes no actions at all about war or other hostilities. aka: He's mostly irrelevant whereas Assad and Bibi are like Trump and Putin: they all can and do make "war" as may be variously defined. So....Bolton is out leaving Assad who cannot even be compared to Bibi. I agree with that conclusion .... but I can't tell if we are placing bibi on the same side or opposite from Assad. The key difference being that Bibi is like it or not defending his country from outsiders whereas Assad is as you say only trying to maintain his power in a civil war against his own people. Two wholly different casees. Trying to make connections/comparisons takes a lot of dots...not mere unsupported conclusions.

3. " Assad is trying to retain power, as all of America's favorite dictators have done in the past and continue to do." /// simply not true. Relevant to this thread: USA forced its puppet Shah to step down from Iran. We do the same with our puppets across South and Central America.

4. Need I supply this Murderers Row list? /// Yes please....but add those dots to make anyone on the list relevant to anything else?
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Re: US and Allies Attack Syria

Postby Tom Palven » Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:48 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:
Assad is trying to retain power, as all of America's favorite dictators have done in the past and continue to do.

Need I supply this Murderers Row list?



/// Yes please....but add those dots to make anyone on the list relevant to anything else.


Lucky for me others have done the work:

Ten vicious dictators the US has supported:
http://www.daveandchad.com/10-vicious-d ... overnment/

35 countries where the US has supported fascists, drug lords, and terrorists:
https://www.alternet.org/world/35-count ... terrorists

And just for the heck of it, some democracies the US has overthrown, to which, imho, I would add Egypt and an attempt in Turkey (This only went up to 2013).
http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/08/20/map ... verthrown/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: US and Allies Attack Syria

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:24 pm

.....now, add the dots.
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Re: US and Allies Attack Syria

Postby Tom Palven » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:55 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:.....now, add the dots.


Here are some dots for you:

"Add to this Clooney's infamous White Helmets ...and you are beginning to understand both Trump and Netanyahu."
https://www.veteranstoday.com/2018/03/0 ... rn-ghouta/
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Re: US and Allies Attack Syria

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:56 pm

That didn't add anything for me. Very few dots will connect Trump and Bibi.

Not to pester you........but it is just all too easy to criticize ANYONE for the bad aspects of their behavior, but to offer any insight at all you have to provide AN ALTERNATIVE to what that person is doing. In the case of Bibi complainers, the alternative is the dissolution of Israel and the genocide of Jews in the Middle East.

I just see the horrors being committed by Bibi as several degrees less than another genocide. Bibi, in my view, has few if any real alternatives short of causing the genocide of his people. The Palestinians: have lots of options.....they just want to ignore history.

If you want to disagree about Bibi/genocide: yes, its just my best guess, the future is never knowable by anyone.
If you want to disagree about options available to the Palestinians, it mostly involved the recognition that their Arab brothers are not giving them sanctuary/movement into the rest of the sand in the Middle East: ie: as much their prison guards as is Bibi. Its what happens when you are too humane to your enemy. The Jews caught up in the doublespeak of their entrenched religion. The Arabs: not so limited.
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Re: US and Allies Attack Syria

Postby Tom Palven » Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:03 am

Is it possible that the Deep State made Trump an offer he couldn't refuse when insisting that he bomb Syria, but he outfoxed them with a an attack that did almost no damage?
http://buchanan.org/blog/category/columns
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: US and Allies Attack Syria

Postby ElectricMonk » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:18 am

Fascinating how the Deep State doesn't seem to include Congress: Trump was apoplectic when Obama ordered a strike without congressional approval, yet he himself never considered asking in the first place. He could easily have avoided or delayed military action (and the responsibility for it), by asking for approval.
Trump wants the distraction a strike brings - the damage is irrelevant.

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Re: US and Allies Attack Syria

Postby Tom Palven » Sun May 27, 2018 5:05 am

The Deep State/Netanyahu/Bolton Strategy:
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/427541-iran-tr ... sanctions/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire


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