Remembrance Day

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Poodle
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Re: Remembrance Day

Postby Poodle » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:58 pm

I'm a bit gobsmacked. I have an Italian great-grandfather who moved to Scotland just to make and sell ice-cream. He moved to Canada just in time (he thought) to avoid his sons being caught up in WW1. It didn't work - his sons joined the Canadian forces just in time to be drafted back to Europe, where they were both killed. They were naive. Everyone was naive. Naivety didn't matter - they still ended up either performing heroic deeds or being killed for something they didn't understand. Score intellectual points all you want - they're still dead.
Thanks for trying, Great Grandpa. Sorry it didn't work, lads. That's enough for remembrance. Politics has sod all to do with it.

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Re: Remembrance Day

Postby xouper » Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:29 am

TJrandom wrote:
xouper wrote:... (My draft number came up and I did my time at a desk at an Air Force Base stateside. Never got to Vietnam.) ...


The Air Force didn`t take draftees. They didn`t need to, since there were plenty of volunteer joiners who wanted to avoid the draft and probable duty in Viet Nam.


Yes, I know that. I was there. If I hadn't joined the Air Force, I would have been drafted into the Army. I thought that went without saying. It is still a fact that my draft number came up. If my passion had been boats instead of airplanes, I would have joined the Navy instead.

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Re: Remembrance Day

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:33 am

Poodle wrote: Thanks for trying, Great Grandpa. Sorry it didn't work, lads. That's enough for remembrance. Politics has sod all to do with it.

the politics is "Remembrance Day": "Remembrance Day (sometimes known informally as Poppy Day) is a memorial day observed in Commonwealth of Nations member states (((IE--Political Masters sending a message to its citizens)) since the end of the First World War to remember the members of their armed forces who have died in the line of duty." //// IE: a diversion to whoop up Nationalism and Patriotism and NOT to remember the utterly useless politicians and issues that brought such needless death to so many. Not as dramatic and direct as a May Day parade with tanks lumbering down the streets.......but for the very same purpose.

If we focus on the red poppies and where the young men went...and why, as you are doing Poodle, we might focus on what leaders in the world today champion the cause of war for their own political maneuverings........and VOTE THEM OUT OF OFFICE...eg: every American President in Memory.

Isn't it sad?...............No.

Its more than that. Remember and recognize...........and take action. Don't wallow in the BS.
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Re: Remembrance Day

Postby Phoenix76 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:37 am

Y'know, it doesn't matter that when you were called up whether you served in 'Nam or whether you served at a desk in the Air Force - or whatever. You did your duty according to the law of your country.

I still have a gripe however. After nearly getting myself killed in 'Nam, because I volunteered, I came home and tried to teach people that had opted to do their time in the reserves, how to stay alive ,if they ever got into battle. We had a thing here where if your number came up and you had to serve, you could choose to do a certain number of years in the reserve. That's fair enough. But there was an increasing number of blokes that having taken that option, refused to do anymore than was required to keep themselves out of being sent to 'Nam.

One of my greatest gripes was a bloke who was a star footballer here in Oz. Like, this bloke was 6ft 6in, 200+ pounds, but would not do anymore than required to keep him safely here in Oz. That {!#%@} me off no end. And it was blokes like that, that was behind my decision to seek a discharge half way through a term. I couldn't cop it anymore. Yep these blokes availed themselves of our laws, as was their right, but then did everything in their power to avoid their obligations.

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Re: Remembrance Day

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:41 am

How gullible and naive you were in 1969 is how you Remember those who fell in WW1?

You failed to learn the deeper lesson.
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Re: Remembrance Day

Postby xouper » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:47 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:How gullible and naive you were in 1969 is how you Remember those who fell in WW1?

You failed to learn the deeper lesson.


If bobbo ever stops badmouthing others on this forum, and starts engaging in civil conversation, I'll be tempted to wonder if hell froze over.

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Re: Remembrance Day

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:55 pm

I agree X. It just takes more key strokes to be "nice" which all too often misses the point as a result.

You hoomans sure are resistant to considering a different idea.

Note: I'm not whining about how I am misunderstood and I'm not claiming any insult to my character. I do enjoy, right or wrong, to "take on" the oppositions position and see how it fits.

Try it.
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Re: Remembrance Day

Postby Phoenix76 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:49 am

And tell me Bobbo, just how gullible were you in 1969 or whenever? I believe you served in the Air Force, correct me if I'm wrong.

I remember those who fell in the Boer War, WW1 and WW2, as men and women who were prepared to serve their country no matter the cost. They weren't rocket scientists back then, who had all the information we have today, they were just ordinary people who stood up for their country as they saw fit. And I did the same in Vietnam.

Tell you something Bobbo. I'm not a team player by any stretch of the imagination. I really do not play well with others. But that's me, it's how I am, can't change that. But I went to 'Nam and worked in a team, especially at Coral, nearly got wiped out, but we prevailed. Still don't know how, but we did.

Don't put me down, or any of my mates who fought beside me, or my mates who were carried out on a stretcher covered in a tarp. We did what many others did in fighting for our country's values as we saw them then. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but that's exactly what it is - hindsight. But maybe fighting a war in the cockpit of a plane, thousands of feet in the lovely blue sky, gives you a different perspective of it all.

In saying that, I have immense respect for the pilots who provided us with support at Coral. The Phantoms coming in a tree top level, guided by a small burning light in a gun pit, the Hueys that came in on straffing runs, and who will ever forget, Puff The Magic Dragon. That is one of the most amazing things I've ever seen.

Just wonder Bobbo, are you "hooman"?

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Re: Remembrance Day

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:56 am

Phoenix: happy to answer your question as I have already done elsewhere on this forum. but before that....please state what it is "exactly" that you think I'm putting down....aka: just exactly why should I be stuffing something?
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Re: Remembrance Day

Postby Phoenix76 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:35 am

Rightly or wrongly, Bobbo, I interpreted you post as a put down. AKA -

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
How gullible and naive you were in 1969 is how you Remember those who fell in WW1?

You failed to learn the deeper lesson.


I'm an ornery critter who gets very agro when I perceive an injustice to my mates - more so than to myself. And that is how I interpreted your comment. I might be a lot of things Bobbo, a feral, a mal-content, a sh*t-stirrer, whatever, but I am very loyal to my mates. I put myself on the line for them in 'Nam, and they did the same for me, and I will burr up in their favour whenever I perceive that somebody is putting them down, denigrating them.

Maybe it is as simple as me not being to quite understand where Bobbo comes from. I admit to finding a lot of your comments "strange", different. So maybe I read your intent differently to what is meant. If that is the case, then I will apologise. But I am very loyal to my mates, the few that I have.

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Re: Remembrance Day

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:18 pm

Be loyal to your mates..............and figure out how to best keep US from dying in stupid needless wars..............

Pretty straight forward.
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Re: Remembrance Day

Postby Phoenix76 » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:24 am

Trouble is Bobbo, I have no way of stopping the USofA from dying in another war. My problem is probably that our stupid Government will follow the USA into any war they start or get involved in. And it doesn't matter which colour our politicians are at any given time, they all do the same thing.

But Bobbo, you are still a very cynical bastard.

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Re: Remembrance Day

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:35 am

Phoenix76 wrote:Trouble is Bobbo, I have no way of stopping the USofA from dying in another war. My problem is probably that our stupid Government will follow the USA into any war they start or get involved in. And it doesn't matter which colour our politicians are at any given time, they all do the same thing.

But Bobbo, you are still a very cynical bastard.

I agree, we can't stop them. But as you do, we don't have to wave a flag and egg them on.
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