Some people saw it coming

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Some people saw it coming

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:16 pm

Here's Bertrand Russell, writing his History of Western Philosophy during World War II:

"In the fifth century...men of learning fled from Gaul to the Western Isles [England and Ireland] to escape the Germans; in the ninth century, they fled back from England and Ireland to escape the Scandinavians [Vikings]. In our own day, German philosophers have to fly even further West to escape their compatriots. I wonder whether it will be equally long before a return flight takes place."

Well, I don't know how massive it will be. I do know that a colleague of mine has retired and gone to live the rest of his life in Germany. He told me in private that the election of Trump was the Auslöser that brought him to that decision.
"We survivors did not seek death. We did not take to the streets when our Jewish friends were taken away. We didn’t raise an outcry until we ourselves were being annihilated. We preferred to remain alive, with the flimsy though accurate excuse that our death would not have helped. We are guilty of being alive."

Karl Jaspers (1883–1968), at the re-opening of Heidelberg University, 1945

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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:01 pm

You haven't posted "why."
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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:04 pm

T.rump D. Clown, that's why.
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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:31 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:You haven't posted "why."


Sorry, if it requires clarification. Trump was the DECIDING FACTOR in my colleague's decision to leave the US.

I hope that's now cleared up.
"We survivors did not seek death. We did not take to the streets when our Jewish friends were taken away. We didn’t raise an outcry until we ourselves were being annihilated. We preferred to remain alive, with the flimsy though accurate excuse that our death would not have helped. We are guilty of being alive."

Karl Jaspers (1883–1968), at the re-opening of Heidelberg University, 1945

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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:09 pm

Why was Trump the deciding factor?..........you know..............specifically. That is the why. I accept Trump was the TRIGGER....but what was the trigger attached to?

..........you know..........why?

Right now..........there is NO ANSWER. Should I assume its because Trump is too lackadaisical about immigration?

..................so ................. why?
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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:17 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Why was Trump the deciding factor?..........you know..............specifically. That is the why. I accept Trump was the TRIGGER....but what was the trigger attached to?

..........you know..........why?

Right now..........there is NO ANSWER. Should I assume its because Trump is too lackadaisical about immigration?

..................so ................. why?


Well, I'll just leave it as a puzzle for you to figure out. Have fun!
"We survivors did not seek death. We did not take to the streets when our Jewish friends were taken away. We didn’t raise an outcry until we ourselves were being annihilated. We preferred to remain alive, with the flimsy though accurate excuse that our death would not have helped. We are guilty of being alive."

Karl Jaspers (1883–1968), at the re-opening of Heidelberg University, 1945

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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:25 pm

Its not a puzzle. You have just posed an unsupported conclusion without any facts whatsoever to provide for a "position."

I suspect you don't know yourself. Something as limp as "because he doesn't like trump" is still not an answer. My response just above should have been instructive to you.

For much of what I might imagine, I can imagine the same concerns taking on worse impacts in Germany.......

...................... so .................... why? Always a relevant question when it comes to opinions. When you have an opinion and you can't explain why.............what are you really revealing????

Its rather tautological. That you hold opinions that you have no understanding of. The very sound of Fury, meaning nothing.
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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by Poodle » Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:05 pm

I think I sympathise. IF I had somewhere else to go when Jeremy Corbyn attained power in the UK, I'd be wherever that was the next day. Reason - oh, I don't know. Would the "Oh, for {!#%@}'s sake!!!" factor do it?

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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:34 pm

Poodle: thats a great set up for a number of comebacks. Instead, I'll take the high road with a quote from Cats Cradle:

“Tiger got to hunt. Bird got to fly.

Man got to ask himself why why why?

Tiger got to rest. Bird got to land.

Man got to tell himself he understands." Kurt Vonnegut, with a bobbo quibble on the last line.
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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by Poodle » Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:16 pm

I don't see a set-up, bobbo - it was merely a comment on a situation which is similar in basic content but WAY away from what happened in the US. I don't know why, but it appears to be loony politician times in several places around the world (I say 'several' in the hope that it's not just an Anglo-American thing). It's serious, however - if Corbyn ever gets near power, I'm going to live with the Major or Matthew.

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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:21 pm

The "set up" is what "I" could do with your post..... like: ""Oh, for {!#%@}'s sake!!!" .... well I still want to know why? Size and number of corn kernels for instance. Not a critique of what you wrote....but my response.
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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:20 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Its not a puzzle. You have just posed an unsupported conclusion without any facts whatsoever to provide for a "position."

I suspect you don't know yourself. Something as limp as "because he doesn't like trump" is still not an answer. My response just above should have been instructive to you.

For much of what I might imagine, I can imagine the same concerns taking on worse impacts in Germany.......

...................... so .................... why? Always a relevant question when it comes to opinions. When you have an opinion and you can't explain why.............what are you really revealing????

Its rather tautological. That you hold opinions that you have no understanding of. The very sound of Fury, meaning nothing.


Naw, I didn't give any conclusion. I reported only the facts as my friend reported them to me, to wit: He's moving to Germany, and his motive for doing so is the election of Donald Trump. Anything more I could say would be speculation. This is not speculation, and it certainly isn't drawing any conclusion.

If you want more details about the exact motivation my friend has, I'm afraid you're out of luck. I have my own ideas, but I didn't and won't say what they are, since only my friend is privy to that. Given that, it makes no sense to go on asking why. It's like the JFK assassination: A puzzle without a definitive solution. Although in this case, since it's one decision made by one citizen, it's hardly worth anyone else's time to speculate about it. It's certainly not worth the time we've spent posting messages. Take the original post for what it's worth. I think it was worth saying; the fact that we can't dig down into as much detail as you would like doesn't affect its value in my eyes. Perhaps in yours, but then, it's difference of opinion that makes horse races.
"We survivors did not seek death. We did not take to the streets when our Jewish friends were taken away. We didn’t raise an outcry until we ourselves were being annihilated. We preferred to remain alive, with the flimsy though accurate excuse that our death would not have helped. We are guilty of being alive."

Karl Jaspers (1883–1968), at the re-opening of Heidelberg University, 1945

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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:12 pm

google - 23 terrifying things that president trump has done in the last 7 days

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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:14 pm

Very powerful testimony as to why you should have asked your friend why. .... but males tend to be ...... not so engaged.

thank you.

Are you even interested in why he chose to move based on Trump being elected? Maybe we should all move to Germany???? Knowledge is power. We should sup from every glass.
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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:16 pm

psychiatry is a scam wrote:google - 23 terrifying things that president trump has done in the last 7 days

terrifying???? Seems a bit unhinged to me..... whatever they might be.

..................number 24 might be causing Germans to go back home?
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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by Monster » Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:53 am

psychiatry is a scam wrote:google - 23 terrifying things that president trump has done in the last 7 days

You are no longer a Trumpeter?
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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by Gord » Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:10 am

psychiatry is a scam wrote:google - 23 terrifying things that president trump has done in the last 7 days

http://www.newstatesman.com/world/2017/ ... seven-days

...8. On Monday, Trump signed an order re-introducing a Reagan-era gag policy which prevents federal funding from going towards any international organisation that offers or promotes abortion. You may have spotted the picture of half a dozen white men watching him do it:

Image

"Half a dozen"? I see seven people watching him. Which one isn't a white man? I can't tell!
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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by scrmbldggs » Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:25 am

The lady hiding under the desk?
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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by Gord » Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:35 am

Does she subtract one white man from the seven watching him?
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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by ElectricMonk » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:59 am

Gord wrote:
psychiatry is a scam wrote:"Half a dozen"? I see seven people watching him. Which one isn't a white man? I can't tell!


the "man" part is in question, not the skin color...

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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:44 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Very powerful testimony as to why you should have asked your friend why. .... but males tend to be ...... not so engaged.

thank you.

Are you even interested in why he chose to move based on Trump being elected? Maybe we should all move to Germany???? Knowledge is power. We should sup from every glass.


Well, as I said, this would be speculation. If I were to move away because of the Trump election (I won't), there wouldn't be just one reason. I could easily list several dozen outrageous things he said and did during the campaign. And then there are his repeated denials of visually obvious, videotaped events, causing me (no psychiatrist, certainly, but...) to doubt his sanity. So, if I had to give a reason, I'd say what my friend said, "It was because of Trump." That is, because of a whole conglomeration of facts and events connected with Trump. There would simply be too many specific things to list; it would take hours.
"We survivors did not seek death. We did not take to the streets when our Jewish friends were taken away. We didn’t raise an outcry until we ourselves were being annihilated. We preferred to remain alive, with the flimsy though accurate excuse that our death would not have helped. We are guilty of being alive."

Karl Jaspers (1883–1968), at the re-opening of Heidelberg University, 1945

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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:44 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote: There would simply be too many specific things to list; it would take hours.


Always makes me laugh to see this. "There are so many.......I can't even list one."

clue: if you want to know WHY people believe certain things or are taking certain action: YOU ASK THEM. Probably, if you get a life long response such as you give here.......... you'll give up.

Life is like that.
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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by OlegTheBatty » Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:37 pm

Gord wrote:
psychiatry is a scam wrote:google - 23 terrifying things that president trump has done in the last 7 days

http://www.newstatesman.com/world/2017/ ... seven-days

...8. On Monday, Trump signed an order re-introducing a Reagan-era gag policy which prevents federal funding from going towards any international organisation that offers or promotes abortion. You may have spotted the picture of half a dozen white men watching him do it:



"Half a dozen"? I see seven people watching him. Which one isn't a white man? I can't tell!

I'm sure gorgeous knows which one is the lizard.
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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:15 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Upton_O_Goode wrote: There would simply be too many specific things to list; it would take hours.


Always makes me laugh to see this. "There are so many.......I can't even list one."



Happy to be the cause of such mirth!! I find your statement equally risible as an alleged summary of what I said. I certainly CAN list one if I choose, and have done so on other threads. Because I chose not to give an example, you conclude that I can't give an example. It's a peculiar mind that embraces a non sequitur so easily, so I'm glad to have made the acquaintance of such an original thinker. If not for you, I'd never have known that I had drawn conclusions with my original post.
"We survivors did not seek death. We did not take to the streets when our Jewish friends were taken away. We didn’t raise an outcry until we ourselves were being annihilated. We preferred to remain alive, with the flimsy though accurate excuse that our death would not have helped. We are guilty of being alive."

Karl Jaspers (1883–1968), at the re-opening of Heidelberg University, 1945

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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:01 pm

I think (and I'm just guessing here) your friend doesn't want to live in the US because Trump is now the president.

That's my guess. Call me crazy.

I base that on the fact that your friend told you that. Again, you can call me crazy.
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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:54 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:I think (and I'm just guessing here) your friend doesn't want to live in the US because Trump is now the president.

That's my guess. Call me crazy.

I base that on the fact that your friend told you that. Again, you can call me crazy.


Why would I do that? That's exactly what I also think.
"We survivors did not seek death. We did not take to the streets when our Jewish friends were taken away. We didn’t raise an outcry until we ourselves were being annihilated. We preferred to remain alive, with the flimsy though accurate excuse that our death would not have helped. We are guilty of being alive."

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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:58 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:I think (and I'm just guessing here) your friend doesn't want to live in the US because Trump is now the president.

That's my guess. Call me crazy.

I base that on the fact that your friend told you that. Again, you can call me crazy.


Why would I do that? That's exactly what I also think.


I'm poking fun at Bobo.
Asked to explain why they hate Jews, anti-Semites contradict themselves. Jews are always showing off; they are hermetic and secretive. They will not assimilate; they assimilate only too well. They are too religious; they are too materialistic, and a threat to religion. They are uncultured; they have too much culture. They avoid manual work; they work too hard. They are miserly; they are ostentatious spenders. They are inveterate capitalists; they are born Communists. And so on.

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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:06 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Upton_O_Goode wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:I think (and I'm just guessing here) your friend doesn't want to live in the US because Trump is now the president.

That's my guess. Call me crazy.

I base that on the fact that your friend told you that. Again, you can call me crazy.


Why would I do that? That's exactly what I also think.


I'm poking fun at Bobo.


I know. I'm having a bit of fun myself.
"We survivors did not seek death. We did not take to the streets when our Jewish friends were taken away. We didn’t raise an outcry until we ourselves were being annihilated. We preferred to remain alive, with the flimsy though accurate excuse that our death would not have helped. We are guilty of being alive."

Karl Jaspers (1883–1968), at the re-opening of Heidelberg University, 1945

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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:15 pm

To bobbo_the_Pragmatist:

I'm grateful to you for being such an original interlocutor. Normally when I converse with people, I assume they have read the same newspapers that I have and that we share basic values. And mainly, in informal conversation, I assume that both of us are willing to replace absolute certainty with reasonable probability. You are the first person I've encountered in the past half-century who seems to insist on absolute, detailed certainty. But if I've misjudged you, please say so. I of course can't read your mind.

Since you are insisting on detailed citations of Trump behavior that might cause a person to leave the country, let me cite just three examples (more forthcoming, if you need them).

Example one: In an interview with Fox News, Trump said that the way to deal with terrorists was to "go after" their families. That means, at the very least, rounding up their parents, siblings, spouses, and children; at the worst, killing all of them. Now I do not hesitate to say that this suggestion is an abominable crime, and the mere fact that the man ever suggested it makes him morally unfit to be President of the United States, even if he subsequently renounces that position (and I haven't heard that he did). If you haven't heard of this, please say so. If it seems morally all right to you, please let everybody know that (in which case I have nothing further to say to you).

Example two: He suggested, in another interview, that the US could deal with its budget or trade deficits by simply repudiating the debt. Again, this is, by any measure of common sense, crazy. If you feel otherwise or haven't heard that he did this, please say so.

Example three: He suggested, in still another interview, that we could deal with our deficits by simply printing enough money to cover them. If you don't think that is crazy, or haven't heard about it, please say so.

That's three examples. I'm willing to provide up to 50 if you need them. But please first give me your reaction to those three.

And, if I might ask, please spare me any more patronizing advice on how I should live my life. I'm doing fine without your help.
"We survivors did not seek death. We did not take to the streets when our Jewish friends were taken away. We didn’t raise an outcry until we ourselves were being annihilated. We preferred to remain alive, with the flimsy though accurate excuse that our death would not have helped. We are guilty of being alive."

Karl Jaspers (1883–1968), at the re-opening of Heidelberg University, 1945

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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by Nobrot » Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:14 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Its not a puzzle. You have just posed an unsupported conclusion without any facts whatsoever to provide for a "position."

I suspect you don't know yourself. Something as limp as "because he doesn't like trump" is still not an answer. My response just above should have been instructive to you.

For much of what I might imagine, I can imagine the same concerns taking on worse impacts in Germany.......

...................... so .................... why? Always a relevant question when it comes to opinions. When you have an opinion and you can't explain why.............what are you really revealing????

Its rather tautological. That you hold opinions that you have no understanding of. The very sound of Fury, meaning nothing.

You! Are a bully.

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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Feb 04, 2017 1:45 am

Nobrot wrote:You! Are a bully.

I disagree. Very pedantic, instructive, specific and correct. Not pure invective like yourself.

Hmmmmm.....but once again..... I could ask "why?" ...........But I don't want to bully anyone into actually having reasons for what they think, feel, post.

Know what I mean?
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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by Nobrot » Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:10 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Nobrot wrote:You! Are a bully.

I disagree. Very pedantic, instructive, specific and correct. Not pure invective like yourself.

Hmmmmm.....but once again..... I could ask "why?" ...........But I don't want to bully anyone into actually having reasons for what they think, feel, post.

Know what I mean?

And evidently still pissed from yesterday.

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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:59 am

Nobort: I don't have a clue what you are on about. I'm quite very happy.... even with all the computer issues I'm dealing with.

...................... People.................. are different. The Same...........but still different.

So....I'll ask you why/what makes you think and therefore post that I'm a bully in the first instance which evidently is "triggered" by me being still pissed from yesterday?

To what degree/percentage do you recognize that merely calling someone a bully in circumstances that you are free to ignore is somewhat of a bullying impulse itself? What "might you" actually more specifically be reacting to?

I'm all ears.
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scrmbldggs
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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by scrmbldggs » Sat Feb 04, 2017 5:28 am

Gord wrote:...subtract one white man from the seven watching...?

Yes.
.
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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by Gord » Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:59 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
Gord wrote:...subtract one white man from the seven watching...?

Yes.

Seven! There are seven of them! (One may be pregnant, I can't be sure even though the article says she is "visibly pregnant", but I'm still counting that as a single person.)

From the article:

...Seven of eight political parties – all but the far-right Sweden Democrats – agreed to pass a binding law....

Ah, what's in a name? That which we call a turd by any other name would smell as sweet. :heh:
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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:33 pm

Gord wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:
Gord wrote:...subtract one white man from the seven watching...?

Yes.

Seven! There are seven of them! (One may be pregnant, I can't be sure even though the article says she is "visibly pregnant", but I'm still counting that as a single person.)

From the article:

...Seven of eight political parties – all but the far-right Sweden Democrats – agreed to pass a binding law....

Ah, what's in a name? That which we call a turd by any other name would smell as sweet. :heh:



:lol: :lol: :lol:
"We survivors did not seek death. We did not take to the streets when our Jewish friends were taken away. We didn’t raise an outcry until we ourselves were being annihilated. We preferred to remain alive, with the flimsy though accurate excuse that our death would not have helped. We are guilty of being alive."

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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by Poodle » Sat Feb 04, 2017 1:46 pm

There ARE only six men watching. The man behind Trump's head has his hand in the operator's access hole.

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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:37 pm

Poodle wrote:There ARE only six men watching. The man behind Trump's head has his hand in the operator's access hole.


Hah! That explains a LOT!
"We survivors did not seek death. We did not take to the streets when our Jewish friends were taken away. We didn’t raise an outcry until we ourselves were being annihilated. We preferred to remain alive, with the flimsy though accurate excuse that our death would not have helped. We are guilty of being alive."

Karl Jaspers (1883–1968), at the re-opening of Heidelberg University, 1945

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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by Denying-History » Sun Feb 05, 2017 8:45 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:The lady hiding under the desk?
Wow! He cheated on his wife faster then it took Clinton once he entered office.
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Re: Some people saw it coming

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Feb 05, 2017 8:51 pm

:lol:
Asked to explain why they hate Jews, anti-Semites contradict themselves. Jews are always showing off; they are hermetic and secretive. They will not assimilate; they assimilate only too well. They are too religious; they are too materialistic, and a threat to religion. They are uncultured; they have too much culture. They avoid manual work; they work too hard. They are miserly; they are ostentatious spenders. They are inveterate capitalists; they are born Communists. And so on.