Goodbye Royalty

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Tom Palven
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Goodbye Royalty

Postby Tom Palven » Sat Feb 27, 2016 11:22 am

Ding dong, the Shah is dead,

The Shah is dead,

The Shah is dead.

Ding dong, the wicked Shah is dead...

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/02/r ... 28583.html

Is it time for the US to impose another royal puppet dictator, before this democracy thing gets out of hand in the Mid-East?
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
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Re: Goodbye Royalty

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Feb 27, 2016 7:47 pm

Your question, regardless of the sarcasm supposed, still maintains too much "last war" thinking that USA has influence around the world....especially places like Iran where we have been absent for 40 years.

The problems we need to deal with are much closer to home.
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Tom Palven
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Re: Goodbye Royalty

Postby Tom Palven » Sat Feb 27, 2016 10:32 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:The problems we need to deal with are much closer to home.


I agree that the problems are close to home in the form of the top Republican Presidential candidates who, like McCain and Netanyahu, want to Bomb. bomb. bomb. Bomb, bomb Iran and, I suppose, install a puppet of some kind.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Goodbye Royalty

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Feb 27, 2016 11:49 pm

I don't think McCain thought past the bomb, bomb, bomb---the first thing he heard when he woke up in the back of his limo before the interview.

Netanyahu? Don't know. Nation building really is nasty business. "Kill them all, before they kill you." Its biblical.
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Matthew Ellard
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Re: Goodbye Royalty

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Feb 28, 2016 12:29 am

Tom Palven wrote:Ding dong, the Shah is dead,
This is very good news. I did predict that the reform movement would suddenly pop up in large numbers, once media opened up.

The absolute best policy that foreign countries can do at the moment is to "do nothing". The reactionaries will be looking to claim "foreign country" interference. "Give them no ammunition".

Foreign countries have all these passive "propaganda" thingees, like US currency, German cars, Levi Jeans, baseball caps and so on that naturally filter into other cultures. Let these things "do the work". The Iranians did that to French and Russian culture, last century, with caviar ( A Persian word).

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ElectricMonk
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Re: Goodbye Royalty

Postby ElectricMonk » Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:54 am

The reform movement in Iran is much more complex than in the rest of the Arab world.
Iran had a secular revolution that was later hijacked by Islamists, and they are not eager to repeat the performance. They also (rather falsely) think that their revolution was in a critical way due to CIA interference and so, in some ways, it wasn't fully 'their' revolution.

For a time during the Arab Spring there was a real chance that the youth in Iran would rise up, too. But when the early reform movements started to eat their children, Iranians decided to back off and take their time. Regime change is now considered a question of generational change rather than violent revolution.
But mostly, Iranians want change on their own terms, not through foreign influence.
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Matthew Ellard
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Re: Goodbye Royalty

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Feb 28, 2016 10:32 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:The reform movement in Iran is much more complex than in the rest of the Arab world.
Iranian aren't Arabs. They are European Persians and related to Kurds. The Ottoman "Arab controlled" regions and Persians fought wars up to the 19th century, mostly over Anatolia. I'm just pointing out that there is a very different cultural background and history, and there are different nuances.

I think that Iran is a bit different, because all the way, since the Iranian revolution, there remained a hidden intellectual class, who simply shunned foreign support and simply went into hiding. This is quite different to Arab countries.


ElectricMonk wrote:But mostly, Iranians want change on their own terms, not through foreign influence.
I absolutely agree. I think Iranians have self perception of being culturally superior and will do things to be accepted in international affairs, as rational and sensible. I imagine that, over a generation, once Iran has become a world partner again and delving into pragmatic things like medical technology, refining etc, that the theological government will wither to being simply symbolic, like the Queen is head of government and the Church of England,...and no one cares..

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Re: Goodbye Royalty

Postby Gord » Sun Feb 28, 2016 10:51 pm

Iran and Aryan are etymologically the same word. Aryan and Indo-European have the same original meaning.

Iranians are considered Indo-Europeans.

Arabs are considered Semites.

Now, this might seem like I'm talking about race, but that's a misconception and would be a misuse of the terms as I understand them. "Indo-European" and "Semitic" are linguistic terms. If you speak English, you are an Indo-European speaker. If you speak Kurmanji, you are a Semitic speaker. If you speak both, you can be both.
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