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Re: My issue with Musk sending a Tesla into space

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:12 am
by Gord
But every pump also adds a new possible failure point. And if you have a catastrophic failure, one section of the pipe is destroyed and the entire system ceases to function.

Basically, the problem is that you're trying to make an environment that is dangerous to humans, then put humans into a safety capsule so you can fire them bullet-like through that dangerous environment.

Re: My issue with Musk sending a Tesla into space

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:47 am
by TJrandom
Gord wrote: ... Basically, the problem is that you're trying to make an environment that is dangerous to humans ...


Kind of like the horseless carriage, or a newfangled flying machine, huh. :shock:

Re: My issue with Musk sending a Tesla into space

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:56 am
by Coveny
Gord wrote:
Coveny wrote:The vacuum part isn't the difficult part to achieve.

I find that hard to believe.

Here's a couple of links.

http://www.eurekamagazine.co.uk/design- ... op/157339/

...For starters, the radial thermal expansion of the steel tubes under direct sunlight will result in pipeline distortions between joints. And, over a 100km pipeline, the longitudinal thermal expansion could be as much as 50m, meaning that a huge number of flexible joints would have to be in place. With so many moving joints, over such a distance, all under vacuum: it’s a maintenance nightmare in the making....


https://jalopnik.com/a-physicist-explai ... 1123562141

...If you want to get an idea of how hard getting a good vacuum is over any length of tube, take a look at what the Large Hadron Collider facility has to do to get just under 27 km of tube at a good, hard vacuum. http://cds.cern.ch/record/455985/files/p291.pdf has more details about that than you could ever want....


The tunnel would be underground, so there should be no issues with the sun causing expansion problems. Like all the subways around the world that go under bodies of water we know how to monitor these water/air tight structures, and make sure there aren't problems. So no need for glass and steel you can use concrete to build the tunnels and build them big enough to let the little bit of surviving air flow around the train.

The StarTram uses a true Maglev not a bubble of air. Currently, maglev transport vehicles routinely run faster than 500 km/h. Put it in a vacuum tube and it is possible to run maglev at 1000s of km/h. poof friction problem solved.

It should be noted that the term vacuum doesn't mean 0PSI it can go up to 14 PSI. A concrete tube similar to what we use for drainage could handle either without issue. (as we do with tunnels under bodies of water) I'm not looking for anything showy here, I'm just looking for it to work.

Re: My issue with Musk sending a Tesla into space

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:00 am
by Coveny
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:If you want to maintain a vacuum, just have more pumps than you need. 200% capacity perhaps. Then if HALF of the pumps suddenly fail you still have 100% of the evacuating capacity available. The pumps would be spaced appropriately along the line.


It doesn't have to be that strong of a vacuum. A torricellian vacuum is created by filling a tall glass container closed at one end with mercury, and then inverting the container into a bowl to contain the mercury. And with it being underground it's not like there will be a huge influx of air if there was a leak...

Re: My issue with Musk sending a Tesla into space

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:31 am
by Poodle
It did occur to me overnight that substituting a real human being for the dummy in the car would have been productive. An eye witness for the price of a few sandwiches and a flask of coffee is good value in my eyes.

Re: My issue with Musk sending a Tesla into space

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:43 am
by Lance Kennedy
The eye witness ability would last only as long as the air supply. But I bet there would have been many volunteers. To be told your body would be the very first in Mars orbit would be enough to get any number of nut case suicidal volunteers.

Re: My issue with Musk sending a Tesla into space

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:58 am
by Dimebag
JO 753 wrote:Odd that nobody mentioned that 'blasting David Bowie' makes no sens sins therez no air to carry the sound.

If the alienz come across it they can beam a lazer at the speakers to hear it.

Re: My issue with Musk sending a Tesla into space

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:06 am
by TJrandom
Dimebag wrote:
JO 753 wrote:Odd that nobody mentioned that 'blasting David Bowie' makes no sens sins therez no air to carry the sound.

If the alienz come across it they can beam a lazer at the speakers to hear it.


Or just look at that dummy - seat dancing. Tapping the brakes to the beat... Beating his fingers on the steering wheel...

Re: My issue with Musk sending a Tesla into space

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:10 am
by Gawdzilla Sama
Gord wrote:But every pump also adds a new possible failure point. And if you have a catastrophic failure, one section of the pipe is destroyed and the entire system ceases to function.

Basically, the problem is that you're trying to make an environment that is dangerous to humans, then put humans into a safety capsule so you can fire them bullet-like through that dangerous environment.

Yeah, like the LA freeways.

Re: My issue with Musk sending a Tesla into space

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:42 pm
by OlegTheBatty
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Pyrrho wrote: It was a test flight.

It's a floor wax AND a desert topping.



Sand, rock, cacti, creosote bush, scorpions, lizards . . .

Re: My issue with Musk sending a Tesla into space

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:02 pm
by scrmbldggs
..fleas...

Re: My issue with Musk sending a Tesla into space

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:03 pm
by scrmbldggs
Poodle wrote:It did occur to me overnight that substituting a real human being for the dummy in the car would have been productive. An eye witness for the price of a few sandwiches and a flask of coffee is good value in my eyes.

How do you know they didn't? :-P

Re: My issue with Musk sending a Tesla into space

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:05 pm
by Poodle
No crumbs from the sandwiches.

Re: My issue with Musk sending a Tesla into space

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:17 pm
by Gord
TJrandom wrote:
Gord wrote: ... Basically, the problem is that you're trying to make an environment that is dangerous to humans ...

Kind of like the horseless carriage, or a newfangled flying machine, huh. :shock:

Sure, if you sucked all the air out of them and then packaged all the passengers in Iron Man suits.

Re: My issue with Musk sending a Tesla into space

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:42 pm
by bobbo_the_Pragmatist
OlegTheBatty wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Pyrrho wrote: It was a test flight.

It's a floor wax AND a desert topping.



Sand, rock, cacti, creosote bush, scorpions, lizards . . .

Ha, ha. I only think to be careful about that word when typing the dry place. You could put Pledge on it.............

Re: My issue with Musk sending a Tesla into space

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:22 pm
by Austin Harper
OlegTheBatty wrote:It would have been more useful to launch Trump and enough close associates to make up the required test mass. Perhaps Musk could have sold it as "A launch into the Greatest Greatness ever Greated by the Greatest Greats."

There would have been much rejoicing.

And we know he only weighs 239 pounds so there's lot of extra room for other payloads.

Re: My issue with Musk sending a Tesla into space

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:31 pm
by Austin Harper
Coveny wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:
Coveny wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:Risking a billion-dollar payload on a test flight would have been a foolish thing to do.


Nanocraft that Hawkings and NASA wanted for alpha centauri cost roughly $200 each. So 100k would be like 500 of them sent in all sorts of directions out into space. I'm not getting where you believe this stuff cost billions. India built and sent a satellite into space for a total cost of under 100 million.

Okay, then risking a $100,000 payload would have been foolish.

It was a test flight.


A test flight that normally cost 6 million dollars to achieve what it achieved... Maybe 6 million isn't a big deal to waste to you, but that's not how I view 6 million..

It cost about $500 million to develop the rocket. Spending $6 million on the test is nothing.

Re: My issue with Musk sending a Tesla into space

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:20 pm
by Gawdzilla Sama
Austin Harper wrote:
Coveny wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:
Coveny wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:Risking a billion-dollar payload on a test flight would have been a foolish thing to do.


Nanocraft that Hawkings and NASA wanted for alpha centauri cost roughly $200 each. So 100k would be like 500 of them sent in all sorts of directions out into space. I'm not getting where you believe this stuff cost billions. India built and sent a satellite into space for a total cost of under 100 million.

Okay, then risking a $100,000 payload would have been foolish.

It was a test flight.


A test flight that normally cost 6 million dollars to achieve what it achieved... Maybe 6 million isn't a big deal to waste to you, but that's not how I view 6 million..

It cost about $500 million to develop the rocket. Spending $6 million on the test is nothing.

Unless it's YOUR $6,000,000.00

Re: My issue with Musk sending a Tesla into space

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:03 pm
by TJrandom
That would bring meaning to the old saw... You can take it with you.

Re: My issue with Musk sending a Tesla into space

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:34 pm
by Gawdzilla Sama

Re: My issue with Musk sending a Tesla into space

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:21 pm
by Poodle
... and all that on a single tank of fuel. Modern technology is wonderful.

Re: My issue with Musk sending a Tesla into space

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:44 pm
by Gawdzilla Sama
Poodle wrote:... and all that on a single tank of fuel. Modern technology is wonderful.

When the fuel is mojo you can go great distances.

Re: My issue with Musk sending a Tesla into space

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:11 pm
by Coveny
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Poodle wrote:... and all that on a single tank of fuel. Modern technology is wonderful.

When the fuel is mojo you can go great distances.


Reminds me of Tin Cup
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vygFotutz7Y

Re: My issue with Musk sending a Tesla into space

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:52 pm
by Gawdzilla Sama
Never watched a golf movie.

Re: My issue with Musk sending a Tesla into space

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:06 pm
by Austin Harper
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Austin Harper wrote:
Coveny wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:
Coveny wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:Risking a billion-dollar payload on a test flight would have been a foolish thing to do.


Nanocraft that Hawkings and NASA wanted for alpha centauri cost roughly $200 each. So 100k would be like 500 of them sent in all sorts of directions out into space. I'm not getting where you believe this stuff cost billions. India built and sent a satellite into space for a total cost of under 100 million.

Okay, then risking a $100,000 payload would have been foolish.

It was a test flight.


A test flight that normally cost 6 million dollars to achieve what it achieved... Maybe 6 million isn't a big deal to waste to you, but that's not how I view 6 million..

It cost about $500 million to develop the rocket. Spending $6 million on the test is nothing.

Unless it's YOUR $6,000,000.00

Yeah but it's not my (or anybody here's) $6M or $500M.

Re: My issue with Musk sending a Tesla into space

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:41 pm
by TJrandom


And if it does come back to earth - no doubt, the cockroaches will think it is alien.