Machining

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Re: Machining

Postby JO 753 » Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:57 am

I hav occasionally chizeled metal. Usually, its to skwer an internal corner in a milled pocket.
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Re: Machining

Postby JO 753 » Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:16 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:I assume boys from the USA, like us Aussies and English did woodwork and metal work at primary school.


Not most, I'd gess. Even in the 70z, most uv the hi skoolz in Chicago didnt hav shop classez.

I went to Lane Tek, wich wuz renouned for its shops. Wood, electric, foundry, machine, print, auto, model. A few more that I cant recall. Plus drafting, wich really iz a shop class.

But I'm sorry to say that my machine shop class wuz not great. Mr. Lichman wuz going senile and woud alwayz drift off into a tale uv Greek mytholojy during a handz on lesson. Sumtimez, he'd get distracted by Ms. Ono, an atractiv girl in the class who wuz alredy well endowed, and digress into a rant on 'udderz' and puberty.

I dont remember actually making anything in that class. The only machining thing I recall iz the upper classman assistant correcting Mr. Lichman about climb milling.
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Re: Machining

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:25 am

My high schools had the most popular "auto shops" where guys rebuilt 54" Chevys and Fords. I really admired that. We had separate wood and metal hobby shops too. I was pre-college placement so never took those, wished I had, so picked up metal working in Community College after graduation. Wood shop I picked up as an assigned officers command while in the AF and on my own--built all the furniture in my house with unnecessarily complicated joinery just for the experience. Rebuild several engines...but never took a course. Had some left over parts too..... always makes me laugh.

If Mom and Dad were still alive, I'd like to thank them for the sacrifices they made to move to neighborhoods that had good schools. Some close neighbors went to worse school systems. Dad always said education was the most important thing to do in life: "Learn in spite of the teachers."

A good general rule.
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Re: Machining

Postby JO 753 » Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:58 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRYvvlp9vqc

The Bridgeport company came out with the 1st version uv this machine in 1938, the same yir my Van Norman #6 wuz made. It wuz revolutionary due to greater versatility. Van Norman eventually stopped making milling machinez due to market share loss.

The Bridgeport dominated the market for decadez, but then cheap nok-offs began chopping into their market and they went under sumwen around 2000. Hardinge took over the company and continued making the machinez. Herez a little history about that.
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Re: Machining

Postby JO 753 » Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:01 am

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Re: Machining

Postby JO 753 » Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:24 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:My high schools had the most popular "auto shops" where guys rebuilt 54" Chevys and Fords. I really admired that.


Duz that mean you are from the far flung future?! And why must the future be flung?

Thats the class I most regret not taking. It may hav been a big help sins I'v almost alwayz had old carz.

Dad always said education was the most important thing to do in life: "Learn in spite of the teachers."


Great advise!
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Re: Machining

Postby JO 753 » Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:43 am

Herez a larjer model than mine from Van Norman. The video duz a good job uv showing the 2 main advantajiz it haz over a Bridgeport. Greater rijidity and very kwik angle ajustment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9izLFrlGS_g

Its good to see there are still lots uv Van Normanz being rehabbed & uzed for real work.
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Re: Machining

Postby Flash » Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:50 am

I learned how to make pornography in high school with an old Kodak camera and a black and white film.

Sorry, I've learned how to make pornography at home while I was in high school. I also learned how to develop the pictures which I suppose was a good thing too.
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Re: Machining

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:57 am

Flash wrote:I learned how to make pornography in high school with an old Kodak camera and a black and white film.
I see. You went to a Catholic school?

We couldn't afford photos at Mosman High, so we just had to have sex with each other.
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As you can tell. I come from a whaling community. Harpoon chucking was another practical course we all studied. :D
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Re: Machining

Postby Austin Harper » Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:18 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:I assume boys from the USA, like us Aussies and English did woodwork and metal work at primary school.

When I was in middle school (6th-8th grade, ages 11-13) I took a home economics class one year. I think it was required of everybody. Wood shop was available as an elective for everyone, but I didn't have time in my schedule for it because I was in band. This was 1997-2000, things may have been different before or after that.
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Re: Machining

Postby TJrandom » Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:29 pm

My early courses in woodworking, electricity, metal working, etc. - were `home schooled`, although that word wasn`t used at the time. I brazed metal, installed door hinges & door latches, electrical outlets, roofing, hung windows, laid hardwood floors, water & sewer lines, soldered copper tubing, etc. - all by age 10 to 12 and could easily have taught those middle school courses and would have been competent in use of all of the tools used. I did once struggle with a drafting class as I just couldn`t calculate the perspective points, and I have never tried it since.

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Re: Machining

Postby JO 753 » Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:58 am

A nise contrast to the guy cutting slots:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7c61OtWxWc
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Re: Machining

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:07 pm

Measure twice, cut once. Wood working requiring more skill, care, patience compared to metal working as you can't weld material back on to correct errors. ((( For the most part, I think you can. Its just quicker to start over? )))

I'm quite proud of myself. Just replaced the plastic handles on the lid to my 22 quart pressure cooker with wooden ones made from scrap fir. Better than original for free rather than $12 plus shipping. Was it machining or milling to use my jig saw to cut the curve in the wood, then fitted by sandpaper?
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Re: Machining

Postby Poodle » Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:16 pm

That was sawing. Obvious.

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Re: Machining

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:39 pm

I was going to say sawing, but since you can't see it, thought it might not be proper. Back on point though, you can see the first people ever photographed drinking beer. Edinburgh Ale in 1844---they were just milling around the bar.


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Re: Machining

Postby TJrandom » Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:11 pm

Ah, but they had been to the mill - to get the hops that went into the beer.

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Re: Machining

Postby freebill » Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:57 pm

JO 753 wrote:Made a ball joint for my car.
MAN BoL JOENT.JPG


Its the joint between the lower control arm and the weel hub assembly that enablez the steering and suspension to work. I woud hav just bought wun, but they arent available new. The O'Rielly'z autopart store coud get uzed wunz, but its just stoopid to spend 5 owrz chanjing frum a worn out part to wun that mite be worn out. Plus, it woud be likely to be the later 2 piece dezine that suks. You can see the orijinal and a 2 piece behind the new stainless steel wun.


:D jo, your solutions-workarounds to already established technologies-languages are amazing

could you please tell us what was the material and how long those ball joints lasted :D

coz, ball joints are generally forged, not machined :wave:

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Re: Machining / Renovation

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:19 am

I had to reconstruct a 30mm segment of missing cornice. The previous owner had built in wardrobes that cut into the original 1930's cornices. When I removed the wardrobe I had to repair these gaps.

The solution was building up the general shape using balls of molasses like plaster and then wrapping sand paper around various sizes of dowel rod and square bits of wood. I sand back to the levels of the original shape, still on either side on the original cornice.

It came out really well although it is painful as you have to do everything standing on a ladder. I'm trying to restore the house in its original 1930's "look" (but with new lighting) .
Cornice_C15.jpg
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Re: Machining / Renovation

Postby Poodle » Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:03 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:... The solution was building up the general shape using balls of molasses like plaster and then wrapping sand paper around various sizes of dowel rod and square bits of wood ...


I've read and re-read ...

Is that "balls of molasses-like plaster ..." or " balls of molasses, like plaster, ..."

I can't sleep until I know.

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Re: Machining / Renovation

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:19 am

Poodle wrote: Is that "balls of molasses-like plaster ..." or " balls of molasses, like plaster, ..."
I was cooking at the time.......whatever is handy.

Molasses Balls Recipe
http://www.food.com/recipe/molasses-balls-309063

Anyhow, the painter next door just came over and told me I'm an idiot for hand sanding door frames & doors, and loaned me his orbit sander for the afternoon. I am an idiot. This tool is fantastic. I'll buy one tomorrow. It will save me a week of sanding. I can "back to wood" through many old layers of paint.

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Re: Machining

Postby JO 753 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:38 am

I made it out uv stainless steel, Bill. I know it duznt hav the yield strength uv the orijinal material, so I made the shank thicker. In any case, its way stonger than the 2 ajasent parts and the side impact that woud be needed to break it woud destroy the tire & weel anyway.

The orijinal on this car wuz the 2 piese you see in the pik. I think it wuz probably in early '72 that they chanjed from the 1 piese bekuz I hav both in my stash uv parts salvajed from 72 New Yorkerz that I wore out / rusted away.

The 1 piese probably lasted at least 10 yirz, but then wen the owner replased them he woud get a 2 piese wich gets sloppy in about 6 months jujing from my experiens. Coud be way less depending on the condition uv the roadz and your driving style. It woud really take only a few hits on sum medium size Chicago pot holes to expand the socket. Its like they intentionally made them self destruct to motivate new car salez.

You probably know that American car companyz were making alot uv total krap in the 70z & 80z. Az a foolish teenajer I purchased a brand new 79 Plymouth Horizon TC3 that spent more time in the dealer service shop than on the road in its 1st yir.
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Re: Machining / Renovation

Postby TJrandom » Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:41 am

Poodle wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:... The solution was building up the general shape using balls of molasses like plaster and then wrapping sand paper around various sizes of dowel rod and square bits of wood ...


I've read and re-read ...

Is that "balls of molasses-like plaster ..." or " balls of molasses, like plaster, ..."

I can't sleep until I know.


I think he meant plaster that was nearly set... but you can never tell what a down under handyman will use.

Now if it had been me - I`d have used a tool made for the task. Don`t know what it is called, but it is a row of wires - so when pressed against the molding, each wire slips, leaving the shape of the molding indented in the row of wires. Easy enough to then transfer that to cardboard, plastic, etc. and use this as a scraper against soft plaster, leaving the gap filled.

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Re: Machining

Postby Poodle » Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:29 pm

That would be a profile gauge.

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Re: Machining

Postby freebill » Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:53 pm

jo, not only material, but also the manufacturing method is a source of strength

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forging#A ... advantages

stress concentration is also an issue;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stress_concentration

machining leaves marks on the material which are good sources of cracks

since forging is an expensive process (compared to machining and when the total production quantity is small), one can assume that such parts could very well be the same/common in different models of cars

perhaps you could research the same size ball-joint in other models

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Re: Machining

Postby JO 753 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:58 pm

I considered that, but unfortunately, parts storez go by make/model/yir, so you cant just ask for a control arm thats 13" long with 5/8 bolt holes 4-3/8 apart etc etc etc. On top uv that, the internal construction iz not vizable, so it coud hav the same stoopid split ball dizine.

The best bet for sumwun without the ability to make parts woud be to replase everything with an aftermarket performans kit.

Another option I'm considering iz converting it to an electric rack & pinion. It woud get rid uv the horsepower robbing hydraulic pump setup and drop about 50 poundz.
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Re: Machining

Postby freebill » Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:59 pm

I don't think one needs to know the dimensions

it's all up to your skills in google

for instance; there is "vehicle applications" heading when you scroll down on the below page

http://frugalmechanic.com/auto-part/bec ... ball-joint


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Omni

https://autopolis.wordpress.com/2013/11 ... e-mission/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Omni_024

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Re: Machining

Postby JO 753 » Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:33 am

You dont if you just want to get a standard stock part. But you were speculating that wun frum other modelz coud fit.

I know the other modelz that hav many uv the same parts. Its not like you'd ask for a lower ball joint for my car and theyd say 'sorry, we only hav it for the Newport', kuz it will be the same part number.
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Re: Machining

Postby TJrandom » Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:44 am

I once used Cadillac hubs on a `50 Dodge truck... at least that is what I remember, but that is so long ago now.

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Re: Machining

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:25 am

Poodle wrote:That would be a profile gauge.
profile guage.jpg

OK. I looked up "profile gauge". I can see what it is.

I might be stupid, but why isn't there a profile gauge that uses slats rather then rods. That way I could place sandpaper (somehow) into the contoured shape and sand that way? It seems logical to me.

I bought two electric sanders for $60 each. A random rotary circular sander and a pointy "iron" shaped sander for corners. In essence I have to sand back about thirty painted wood windows and four doors and frames.
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Re: Machining

Postby JO 753 » Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:54 am

I got wun uv thoze! It must be more than 10 yirz sins it crossed my mind.
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Re: Machining

Postby freebill » Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:47 am


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Re: Machining

Postby JO 753 » Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:37 am

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Re: Machining

Postby JO 753 » Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:17 pm

I saw wun uv theze at a machine show in 1998:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TowJZQi-qY
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Re: Machining

Postby JO 753 » Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:23 pm

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Re: Machining

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:35 pm

JO 753 wrote:Herez an Okuma version]
That was a fantastic machine. I can see why you like looking at these videos. I am amazed at the detailed work it does with the lettering, all by the same machine.

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Re: Machining

Postby JO 753 » Tue Apr 19, 2016 11:50 pm

Yep. Az a manual machinist I can see how theze machinez make me seem like a crippled blind idiot. Another thing thats going to happen eventually iz that a droid will be able to do such complex work with just a good quality Dremel, like that sene in I, Robot in wich Sonny drawz a picture.
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Re: Machining

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:00 am

JO 753 wrote:Yep. Az a manual machinist I can see how theze machinez make me seem like a crippled blind idiot. Another thing thats going to happen eventually iz that a droid will be able to do such complex work with just a good quality Dremel, like that sene in I, Robot in wich Sonny drawz a picture.


OK. You are suggesting a future with transportable universal "handling machines" that uses cheap local machines to do the job, that it may not have been programmed to use before.

That actually makes a lot of sense.

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Re: Machining

Postby JO 753 » Wed Apr 20, 2016 1:18 am

I'm saying any ordinary household servant droid will be able to pick up a hobby grinder and do sum serious machining, like duplicating a broken part on an appliance for example. Sertainly, therez a limit to the size and speed and the spindle slop in the tool will limit the finish and tolerans, so I'm not segjesting that purpose bilt machinez will be obsolete.
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Re: Machining

Postby JO 753 » Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:03 pm

Made sum lite sokets for my car:
LiTSoKITS copy.jpg

Stock sockets are cheezy formed steel that rusts and barely holdz the bulb.
I'm remaking the side marker turn signal lites, so haf to make the houzing next.
LiTSoKITS2 copy.jpg
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Re: Machining

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:02 am

Once you get those brass splinters outta your fingers, could you knit me a new (15 inch, generic) hubcap? I just broke one and don't wanna have to buy a whole set again. :-P
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