Is it really rape when the victim in question does not exist?

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Abdul Alhazred
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Is it really rape when the victim in question does not exist?

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:00 pm

Peezus himself, The Real-o True-lo Pope of No {!#%@} This Time True AtheismTM wants to know ...

Have you ever wondered why the #MeToo movement hasn’t caught up with Michael Shermer?

I can tell you why: it’s because he bullies people, is litigious, and does his best to make life miserable for anyone who squeaks. I publicized a woman’s first person account of how he took advantage of her at a conference — she was terrified that he’d go after her and he did — and he responded by encouraging conference organizers to blackball me, and threw a lawsuit at me (he later backed down, since it was just going to be a parade of witnesses describing his deplorable behavior). ...


Is it really rape when the victim in question does not exist?

Peezus himself made up the story because he is jealous of Shermer's superior notoriety.

Never mind that NormalTM people never heard of either of them, despite occasional bad press from right wing sources. :pr:
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Re: Is it really rape when the victim in question does not exist?

Postby Martin Brock » Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:31 pm

Myers lives in the intersection of two bubbles, a mainstream media bubble obsessed with the misbehavior of Hollywood moguls and a bubble of professional atheism that he confuses with free thought. Schermer's alleged rapiness exists in the latter but not the former, and the cognitive dissonance is too much for Myers to handler. Why can't Rachel Maddow see that Schermer is as evil as Weinstein? Doesn't she read Myers?

If Myers were half as brilliant as he imagines himself, I might read Pharyngula.
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Re: Is it really rape when the victim in question does not exist?

Postby Io » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:05 pm

This is the sort of thing that the common or garden pleb like you or me really don't have any business deciding. None of us were present at those events and the only people who were there can't be taken at their word anyway, even if they do exist. (That's what jury-based trial systems are supposed to be for.) I'm not saying Michael Shermer is lying (high horses begone!) - I'm saying it's not possible for anyone else to know either way.

So, taken at face value the answer to the question is 'no, of course not'. If there's no victim, there's no crime. But that's not really the question is it. The question is what really happened?

No-one knows what the truth is here, so all anyone will be doing is speculating; which is unproductive at best and reputation-damaging at worst. Well, one person knows, but as mentioned, no-one knows whether they'd be honest or not and there's no point in speculating about that either.

As for The Peezster, I've no idea why he'd lie and make up something. Probably he didn't, but someone else could have. Again, just speculation.

Having said all that I do find that P Z Myers is extremely selective with his reasoning and about as uncharitable with his interpretations as it's possible to be when he opines about something he doesn't like, yet somehow manages to ignore the negative aspects of something that he does. So while I know nothing about the character of Michael Shermer as a man, I'd trust P Z Myers about as far as I could comfortably spit out a rat*

*joke © Ford Prefect circa 1978.

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Re: Is it really rape when the victim in question does not exist?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:15 pm

Another bottom line question/issue in "cases like these" is should any lawsuit even be allowed? Cases where there is NO CORROBORATING EVIDENCE. The only evidence is witness testimony from two sides that contradict each other.

Most people agree that in such cases NO CRIMINAL LIABILITY should apply. Fewer people think that civil lawsuits should not be allowed: let the jury judge the CREDIBILITY of the claimants.

There are lawsuits in criminal and civil context and people have been found guilty/liable purely on verbal testimony. Judges should stop these trial from going to conclusion on their own motions: INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE. Too many people/experts think that honest people can tell a lie from the truth. I don't think so.
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Re: Is it really rape when the victim in question does not exist?

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:28 pm

In this case there isn't even witness testimony, only Peezus' assertion that he knows somebody.
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Re: Is it really rape when the victim in question does not exist?

Postby OlegTheBatty » Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:35 pm

Most women don't report sexual misconduct directed at them except for telling close friends. The lack of lawsuit by the accuser or other formal proceeding is not evidence that she does not exist.

The belief that if the accused is not convicted then the event didn't happen is a very harmful myth.

OTOH, an anonymous accusation does not a criminal make. I know none of the substance of these allegations. Neither do you.
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Re: Is it really rape when the victim in question does not exist?

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:59 pm

The substance is Peezus is a small man eaten up with envy.
Aldous Huxley wrote:A government with a comprehensive plan for the betterment of society is a government that uses torture.

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Re: Is it really rape when the victim in question does not exist?

Postby Io » Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:03 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:OTOH, an anonymous accusation does not a criminal make. I know none of the substance of these allegations. Neither do you.


There. That's exactly the point I was trying to make :)


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